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It's official - Bush beat Gore in all debates

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It's official - Bush beat Gore in all debates

Old 08-24-04, 09:04 PM
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It's official - Bush beat Gore in all debates

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...y_daily_show_5

" When the conversation turned serious, Stewart asked Kerry how he would counter Bush's ability in debates to turn issues into a choice between his position and the opposition.

Kerry said the debates would be a challenge. "The president has won every debate he's ever had," Kerry said. "He beat Ann Richards. He beat Al Gore (news - web sites). So, he's a good debater." "




finally, the matter is settled





btw, this whole thread is just for fun, i hope yall take it as such
Old 08-24-04, 09:07 PM
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Maybe it would have been better if Kerry signed and poo-pooed Bush. We know how well that strategy worked before. I do think Gore won the first debate though, but Bush adapted unexpectedly in the last 2.
Old 08-24-04, 09:11 PM
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I don't have my reading glasses on but I can't believe the blatant spin in the OP's post and thread title.
Old 08-24-04, 09:14 PM
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Whoa, if Kerry's lowering expectations we must be in for some real snoozefests. It would be fun if the moderator of one of the debates threw a real curveball at them by saying they can't use the words "Vietnam" and "terror".
Old 08-24-04, 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by dork
I don't have my reading glasses on but I can't believe the blatant spin in the OP's post and thread title.
Believe it....spin is all this board is about these days.

Go check out the post about estate tax. Just one spin after another. And when I ask for some non-partisan facts, I'm given three more pieces of spin.

A few months ago it seemed like civil debate was almost possible here. Now its just right spin..right spin...left spin...right spin...right spin...left spin.

And yes, the emphasis on right spin is deliberate. The number of posting conservatives far outweigh the liberals. For every liberal viewpoint on this board, there are ten conservatives trying to wear them down. And virtually no moderates.

Actually "viewpoint" is a bad word. Basically, its all insinuation (irregardless of which side of the aisle on which you sit) with little to no factual basis behind it. Just tow the party line. Never question. Never stray. Never research. Just accept and obey.

A month or so ago, I asked for recommendations of message boards where civil and informational discussions of politics and issues take place. Just about every poster said this board was actually one of the best.

But I sadly disagree. No one ever bends...hardly anything but talking points are brought up...and we just run around in circles.

This is supposed to be a discussion group but rarely do "discussions" actually take place. Everyone just talks and rarely listens.
Old 08-24-04, 09:33 PM
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the best part about gore debating was the news tearing him up after the fact
Old 08-24-04, 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by TheAllPurposeNothing

This is supposed to be a discussion group but rarely do "discussions" actually take place. Everyone just talks and rarely listens.
funny you say that when your first post in that thread starts off like this:

Originally posted by TheAllPurposeNothing
Great...more conservative think-tank dribble from the lovely Heritage Foundation.

if you want a more civil discussion, you should foster one starting with your own posts. calling an article "dribble" doesn't do that
Old 08-24-04, 09:41 PM
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I hope Kerry doesn't use the same person who did Gore's makeup for the debate!
Old 08-24-04, 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Venusian
funny you say that when your first post in that thread starts off like this:




if you want a more civil discussion, you should foster one starting with your own posts. calling an article "dribble" doesn't do that

I would further humbly suggest that he is wrong. Either that or he simply hasn't gone into the right threads. There are many many discussions that take place and where opposite viewpoints are accepted. I could list some of them, and list the names of the usual participants, but somebody here always takes a bit of an exception to me doing that, so I will refrain this time. Whether they are thread of interest is also a whole other story.

I also have a huge issue with the notion that posters here never research. To borrow a phrase from another member, hogwash. No, actually it more like utter bullshit of the ignorant variety, but whatever floats one's boat I suppose.



Sorry for spoiling the fun.
Old 08-24-04, 09:51 PM
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"The president has won every debate he's ever had," Kerry said.

I sense another flip-flop coming.
Old 08-24-04, 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by TheAllPurposeNothing
Believe it....spin is all this board is about these days.

Go check out the post about estate tax. Just one spin after another. And when I ask for some non-partisan facts, I'm given three more pieces of spin.
Hey, I think the Congressional Joint Economic Committee is about as nonpartisan as you can hope to get on a highly partisan or party-centric issue.

Based on the tone you've used, I very strongly suspect that "nonpartisan" is any source that agrees with your views, and "partisan," any source that doesn't.

But lets face it, Democrats argue for high taxes and a policy of wealth redistribution through taxes (although the tax loopholes they pass keep it from actually happening) and Republicans argue for lower taxes to stimulate economy. Never the two shall meet.
Old 08-24-04, 09:51 PM
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I think this thread should be saved for the future. It should be placed in a box, a lock box, and only I, the Speaker of the House and the duly elected representative of Book Talk will have a key to that box ...

Ironically, a coworker (who hangs from the left side of the line) and I were discussing this today. I commented that Gore's inability to defeat Bush in even one debate is probably what cost him the election. He agreed. We then discussed whether Kerry possessed the understanding of where Gore went wrong and ability to not make the same mistakes. Surprisingly, we both agreed that he did possess the former but not the latter. It should be interesting to see.

das
Old 08-24-04, 10:13 PM
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I think the reason why Bush wins all the debates because he is always constantly underestimated. People in the local media, for when he was running for gov. and national media, for the 2000 election, bought into the Bush is a moron stuff and that filtered down to general public. I think if people viewed Gore and Bush on equal intelligence levels Gore would have won the debates, but since people werent expecting much from Bush and he was comparable to Gore it came off as a Bush victory.
Old 08-24-04, 10:26 PM
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"He won the debates before he didn't win them"
Old 08-24-04, 10:29 PM
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I think if people viewed Gore and Bush on equal intelligence levels
I wonder why they didn't? From all indications, Bush actually did better academically than Gore who failed divinity school and had to drop out of law school due to poor grades. Could it be that the media had pumped up Gore to be a supergenius when he wasn't and regarded Bush as a moron because his views didn't fit in with their agenda?
Old 08-24-04, 10:31 PM
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Smart move on Kerry's part. He's setting himself up as the underdog and showing (perhaps false) humility.
Old 08-24-04, 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by bhk
I wonder why they didn't? From all indications, Bush actually did better academically than Gore who failed divinity school and had to drop out of law school due to poor grades. Could it be that the media had pumped up Gore to be a supergenius when he wasn't and regarded Bush as a moron because his views didn't fit in with their agenda?
Yeah, that's what it is. It has nothing to do with his seeming inability to form and express coherent thoughts.
Old 08-24-04, 10:46 PM
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It has nothing to do with his seeming inability to form and express coherent thoughts.
Still doesn't explain why Gore was portrayed as a genius.
Old 08-24-04, 10:52 PM
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subjectively or objectively?
Old 08-24-04, 10:59 PM
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It's "drivel" dammit, not "dribble"!
Old 08-24-04, 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Pharoh
I also have a huge issue with the notion that posters here never research. To borrow a phrase from another member, hogwash. No, actually it more like utter bullshit of the ignorant variety, but whatever floats one's boat I suppose.
You have a huge issue because you are part of the 5% of people that do. Generally speaking, he is absolutely correct.
Old 08-24-04, 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by Venusian

if you want a more civil discussion, you should foster one starting with your own posts. calling an article "dribble" doesn't do that
You are right. I did enter that discussion with the wrong momentum, and for that, I apologize.

However, I still do believe the article is spin-filled dribble. It doesn't actually deal with the issue of estate taxes. It uses an unrelated non-issue (charitable donations) to justify the idea of estate tax repeal. It is not much different than me saying that we should remove airbags from cars because statistically people play music quieter (less noise pollution) in cars without them. The article basically avoids the issue at hand and instead tries to wrap it up in a push button ("Gee...we should be charitable so lets repeal the tax!"). To me, its the worst kind of misleading propaganda. While I believe being charitable is an admirable quality, it is nothing we should base tax policy on.

I mentioned it here because the same thing spurred my interest in that thread that did here. The title... "Killing off the Death Tax." The title itself was pure propaganda. It refers to the estate tax by a favored, misleading conservative misnomer, "the death tax" and already sets the stage for what will follow in the thread.

Not much different from the title of this thread, which somehow makes a passing comment by Kerry the end-all be-all decision on the 2000 debates. Kerry's comment doesn't actually reflect the title...again just another piece of spin.

Just to be entirely clear, I am liberal in nature and am quite proud of it (suprise, suprise). But I personally abhor the out-pouring of so called "think-tanks" on either side of the aisle. They too often try to apply emotional appeals to non-emotional issues. And they often try to limit any amount of thought from their targeted audiences. They are propagandists, pure and simple, and really offer nothing to the debate but lack of tolerance and misinformation.

So pardon my dislike of the Heritage Foundation or the Cato institute or the Brookings Institute. I like debate and research...not reiteration of talking points. And I will rally against them (liberal or conservative) when I see them.
Old 08-25-04, 12:02 AM
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Everyone just talks and rarely listens.
You sure seem to be a lot of talking about other topics, while the topic is Kerry's comments about Bush winning all of the debates he has been involved with.
Old 08-25-04, 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by X
It's "drivel" dammit, not "dribble"!
Actually, dribble is the correct term here.

Websters:

Dribble......definition 3:

to come or issue in piecemeal or desultory fashion (desultory meaning "not connected with the main subject" or "disappointing in progress or performance.")
Old 08-25-04, 12:08 AM
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Well there you go. I thought you meant

2 : to talk stupidly and carelessly
transitive senses
1 : to utter in an infantile or imbecilic way
or
2 : NONSENSE

Isn't "dribble" a verb?

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