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Swiftboat shills are lying? Gasp! Say it aint so!

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Swiftboat shills are lying? Gasp! Say it aint so!

Old 08-26-04, 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Dimension X
For weeks, the left's only defense was "those guys weren't on the boat with Kerry," but when Rood writes a pro-Kerry article from an identical perspective as Thurlow, Pees, and Chenoweth, suddenly another officer on the same mission becomes a reliable source.
I don't believe any of those swiftboat partisans for smear were with Kerry on the day he earned his silver star.

Further, when someone affirms the documented record, they have a much lower burden of proof than someone who denies it. No?

I love that you can find MY hypocrisy in this whole matter, but you seem unable to detect your own.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
And if we went to Iraq to save the Iraqis from Saddam then why are we engaged in a war now with the very people we claimed to have gone there to liberate?
We weren't there to liberate Syrians and Iranians, check out the passports of some of al Sadr's "Militia" currently chilling with Allah.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by chess
Ack! What am I doing? I let you guys change the subject.

Here's the latest:


- Bush's chief legal counsel resigns over ties to swiftboat partisans for smear.


He wasn't President Bush's chief legal counsel. And do you really want to go down this route? I always like to ask first.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:08 PM
  #304  
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Well, usually when I'm in a hole, I stop digging. Not sure though.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Pharoh
He wasn't President Bush's chief legal counsel. And do you really want to go down this route? I always like to ask first.
Ties between Kerry campaign and 527s? Sure there are!

Lies in their ads? Completely unecessary...please locate one at your leisure.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:12 PM
  #306  
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Originally posted by bhk
Well, usually when I'm in a hole, I stop digging. Not sure though.
You'd like that wouldn't you? A week of bad press for Kerry with no follow up.

No, I think I'd like to dig and expose the fuckers who are behind this nonsense...all the way back to Nixon.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Dimension X
For weeks, the left's only defense was "those guys weren't on the boat with Kerry," but when Rood writes a pro-Kerry article from an identical perspective as Thurlow, Pees, and Chenoweth, suddenly another officer on the same mission becomes a reliable source.
Thurlow lied:

Originally posted by Washington Post
Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."
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Old 08-26-04, 02:13 PM
  #308  
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Originally posted by chess
Ties between Kerry campaign and 527s? Sure there are!

its a gray area, but that gets close to bordering on illegal
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Old 08-26-04, 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by weargle
We weren't there to liberate Syrians and Iranians, check out the passports of some of al Sadr's "Militia" currently chilling with Allah.
The idea that the people fighting US occupation forces are all foreign fighters is strictly administration propaganda. A simple google news search will reveal that even administration spokesmen now acknowledge that much of the insurgent force are native Iraqis.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
The idea that the people fighting US occupation forces are all foreign fighters is strictly administration propaganda. A simple google news search will reveal that even administration spokesmen now acknowledge that much of the insurgent force are native Iraqis.
I never said "all" (what was that about reading again?) I feel sure that the Saddam backing Baathists are taking part as well as well as al Sadr's "congregation".
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Old 08-26-04, 02:16 PM
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i dont think anyone doubts there are iraqis fighting americans. i dont think anyone doubts there are iraqi civilians fighting americans (al-sadr for one). did anyone say that?
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Old 08-26-04, 02:19 PM
  #312  
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Originally posted by chess
Ties between Kerry campaign and 527s? Sure there are!

Lies in their ads? Completely unecessary...please locate one at your leisure.

Just as I'll wait for you to provide lies from GOP leaning 527s. The point being, that the "lies" I would provide wouldn't be accepted by you, just as the "lies" you have provided aren't accepted by almost all with a different opinion than yourself. Besides, isn't it all a matter of semantics? For example, what about the 527 ad that states President Bush wants to cut all overtime pay for blue collar workers? That is a lie.

Besides, that wasn't my point. You indicated that one of the President's outside legal counsels resigned due to his personal connection to the SBVT group as if that alone was enough to prove illegal coordination. Of course there was nothing illegal in this instance, and there is much more of these type of connections between the Kerry campaign and 527 groups. Are these connections that you admit to illegal? If so, shouldn't they all stop immediately? And if that was not your implication, why bring up this fact?
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Old 08-26-04, 02:21 PM
  #313  
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Originally posted by Pharoh
I've pretty much kept out of this one
Got sucked in, didn't you?
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Old 08-26-04, 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
The idea that the people fighting US occupation forces are all foreign fighters is strictly administration propaganda. A simple google news search will reveal that even administration spokesmen now acknowledge that much of the insurgent force are native Iraqis.
Sorry, but the administration never has stated this. If one were however to say that the overwhelming majority of people now fighting Coalition forces are comprised of thugs who are either foreing national or those who were the enemies of the Iraqi people even before the Liberation, they would be correct. There is not mass nationalistic insurgency, no matter how much some apparently wishes there were.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by chess
I don't believe any of those swiftboat partisans for smear were with Kerry on the day he earned his silver star.

Further, when someone affirms the documented record, they have a much lower burden of proof than someone who denies it. No?

I love that you can find MY hypocrisy in this whole matter, but you seem unable to detect your own.
'

But isn't the problem with the official record the fact that it was written by Kerry? The after action reports, written by Kerry. Citations, aren't they based on the after action reports written by Kerry.

The defenders of Kerry love to throw out the fact that Kerry did not give himself the medals and that they were all approved by his superiors. But aren't the superior officers just basing their decisions on the after action reports, all of which were written by Kerry?
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Old 08-26-04, 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by weargle
I never said "all" (what was that about reading again?) I feel sure that the Saddam backing Baathists are taking part as well as well as al Sadr's "congregation".
That's funny. I saw on the news just last night a piece about some fighters in Najaf. One of them was a 30 year old man and his 14 year old son. Neither one of them were former Baathists, especially not the 14 year old.

The administration line is that it's foreign fighters, former baathists and a few gullible Iraqis who are fighting the US occupation but there's plenty of reporting that indicated that the bulk of the insurgents are neither foreigners nor former baathists but rank and file Iraqis who resist the occupation. Like I said, we're at war with the people we said that we were there to free.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Chew
Got sucked in, didn't you?


Yeah, had a little time, and quite a bit of frustration.

Though I shouldn't have.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Pharoh
There is not mass nationalistic insurgency, no matter how much some apparently wishes there were.

Nice invective
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Old 08-26-04, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
a few gullible Iraqis
Just like a 30 year old and his 14 year old son?
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Old 08-26-04, 02:28 PM
  #320  
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Originally posted by tcoursen
'

But isn't the problem with the official record the fact that it was written by Kerry? The after action reports, written by Kerry. Citations, aren't they based on the after action reports written by Kerry.

The defenders of Kerry love to throw out the fact that Kerry did not give himself the medals and that they were all approved by his superiors. But aren't the superior officers just basing their decisions on the after action reports, all of which were written by Kerry?
On the contrary, the swift boat partisans for smear assumed that some initials other than JFK on the documents were Kerry, when they were indeed written by someone else. Someone find me a link.

Further, and this hadn't occurred to me before just now, why was it that Kerry would have been left writing all the reports? Were his fellow officers lazy? Did they all not receive awards for valor based on those reports and not say a word in protest for 35 years?

I'm just saying...
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Old 08-26-04, 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by weargle
Just like a 30 year old and his 14 year old son?
Like I said, to the administration and it's shills the native Iraqis who we said we were there to free are now our enemies. The Islamist insurgents have certainly joined forces with some of the former Baathists and there's no denying that a very large faction of the resistance is composed of disillusioned young men who see the occupation as worse than the status quo before the invasion. As much as the administration would like to deny it, the Iraqi Islamists are citizens of Iraq who were suppressed under Saddam. They are the people we say we went there to liberate and yet now that they seek to determine their own future they become our enemy.

"You can have any government you want, just as long as it's one that we approve of."

Nice freedom
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Old 08-26-04, 02:35 PM
  #322  
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I see no one addressed my point about the 2nd Swiftboat ad 5 pages ago. The Swifties and all other "vets opposed to Kerry" claim to be pissed for calling them ALL war criminals. Even Ollie North claims there were NO atrocities. Yet, how do the proponents of these groups explain My Lai and the 500 Vietnamese women, children and babies thrown in a ditch and shot? What about the beheading and the women raped with bayonets?

HOW DARE John Kerry claim there were atrocities in Vietnam! Are you in denial that these thing happened? I'm truly curious.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by CRM114
I see no one addressed my point about the 2nd Swiftboat ad 5 pages ago. The Swifties and all other "vets opposed to Kerry" claim to be pissed for calling them ALL war criminals. Even Ollie North claims there were NO atrocities. Yet, how do the proponents of these groups explain My Lai and the 500 Vietnamese women, children and babies thrown in a ditch and shot? What about the beheading and the women raped with bayonets?

HOW DARE John Kerry claim there were atrocities in Vietnam! Are you in denial that these thing happened? I'm truly curious.
shhhhhhh....it doesn't fit with the party line that Kerry lacks character. Besides, truth is not an absolute defense for slander....

oh, wait, yes it is.
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Old 08-26-04, 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by chess
On the contrary, the swift boat partisans for smear assumed that some initials other than JFK on the documents were Kerry, when they were indeed written by someone else. Someone find me a link.

Further, and this hadn't occurred to me before just now, why was it that Kerry would have been left writing all the reports? Were his fellow officers lazy? Did they all not receive awards for valor based on those reports and not say a word in protest for 35 years?

I'm just saying...

The report was signed K.J.W. but Kerry's initials are J.F.K. Additionally, even if Kerry did write the after action report (which is disputed by the initials on the report itself) the Navy has stated that no medals are given out without verification from at least two sources.

link
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Old 08-26-04, 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
The report was signed K.J.W. but Kerry's initials are J.F.K. Additionally, even if Kerry did write the after action report (which is disputed by the initials on the report itself) the Navy has stated that no medals are given out without verification from at least two sources.

link
Thank you!
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