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International team to monitor presidential election

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International team to monitor presidential election

Old 08-09-04, 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
If they want to observe them, I think that's great; but no monitoring, and certainly no authority.

das
That's good, because it mentions nothing to that extent in the article.
Old 08-09-04, 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Brain Stew
Just a question:

What happens when we see something askew in a foreign entities voting system?
Well, you saw the outcome of a shady election where Saddam got 100% of the vote.
Old 08-09-04, 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by OldDude
Well, you saw the outcome of a shady election where Saddam got 100% of the vote.
All jokes aside, isn't what's good for the goose, good for the gander?
Old 08-09-04, 03:22 PM
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The paragraph near the end indicates they have already monitored two elections, just not presidential ones. I predict a non-event.
In November 2002, OSCE sent 10 observers on a weeklong mission to monitor the U.S. midterm elections. OSCE also sent observers to monitor the California gubernatorial recall election last year.
Old 08-09-04, 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by Brain Stew
Oh ok, well I guess it's the fault of all those Gore supporters working in the State Department. Oh wait....
What?
Old 08-09-04, 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
What?
It has been implied several times in this thread that this is a Democrat backlash to the 2000 election, because we are getting those commies in Europe to observe the election.

I was merely pointing out that this can't be a grand left-wing conspiracy if Colin Powell, Secretary of State signed off on it.
Old 08-09-04, 03:28 PM
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Thank goodness we're getting support to stabilize things here.
Old 08-09-04, 03:28 PM
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I think people are overreacting here. Maybe it's American pride, maybe it's anti-European sentiment, but for some reason I feel like the responses here aren't all based entirely on clear logical thinking. Some of these reactions seem a little knee-jerk. "Oh, we invented democracy, we don't need Europe."

Brain Stew seems like the only one here who is putting up a solid argument for either side.
Old 08-09-04, 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Brain Stew
All jokes aside, isn't what's good for the goose, good for the gander?
What's your point? That the US is sooooo hypocritical? Look, you've got individuals, US citizens here, saying this is bad. We never signed anything ten years ago, Bill Clinton's admin signed off on it, apparently. Do we not have the right to say it's wrong? So Powell and the govt. at large is standing by an earlier agreement, fine, that doesn't mean I have to like it, and that doesn't mean that it's automatically a good thing.

And what's good for the goose, good for the gander? Again, I see this as an attempt to paint the US as hypocritical, but you know what, maybe we are, but I'd rather we look out for our own best interests than lowering ourselves to somebody elses level, or let them dictate how we should run our government.

And yes, I see what you're saying about the OSCE not having any power here, but I'd just remind you that I already conceded that point before when I said they would have no jurisdiction, yet have influence.
Old 08-09-04, 03:29 PM
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Brain Stew

It has been implied several times in this thread that this is a Democrat backlash to the 2000 election, because we are getting those commies in Europe to observe the election.
Several? No it hasn't. You're the one who keeps trying to turn this into a partisan argument.

das
Old 08-09-04, 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
Several? No it hasn't. You're the one who keeps trying to turn this into a partisan argument.

das
Originally posted by darkflounder
There were no civil rights violations in Florida. Multiple investigations have found nothing. The only group that was remotely discriminated against was rich black REPUBLICANS!!
Originally posted by Groucho
If Kerry wins the election, you know it'll be because of tampering from these people.
Originally posted by PrivateJoker
My thoughts exactly. The thought of euro-socialists acting as (cough) unbiased judge should put fear in everybody regarding this.
Originally posted by DaveNinja
The french judge has already decided that Kerry wins the election, any other 'result' in november will be due to tampering. Kerry's vice president will be the canadian pairs ice skating team.
Now most of them didn't come out and say Democrat. But mentioning that they will fix it so Kerry wins or saying that is is a Euro-Socialist plot is implying Democrat handywork.
Old 08-09-04, 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by Brain Stew
I was merely pointing out that this can't be a grand left-wing conspiracy if Colin Powell, Secretary of State signed off on it.
The U.S. is obliged to invite us, as all OSCE countries should," spokeswoman Urdur Gunnarsdottir said. "It's not legally binding, but it's a political commitment. They signed a document 10 years ago to ask OSCE to observe elections."
Those scheming liberals are a crafty bunch! Now those evil euro-commies are going to steal the election!

Seriously, I don't like it but it's not horrible.
Old 08-09-04, 03:35 PM
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Are you kidding me? This whole thing started because some Democratic senators called on the U.N. to monitor the elections. There is no way anybody would allow the U.N. to come in, so they picked some piece of shit European organization so the black Democrats can claim they got something done.

Monitoring is not just observing in this context. When you monitor elections you are looking for irregularities, like when we send people to third-world countries.

This is a disgrace and a political stunt by the Democrats. It is meant to embarass, and to an extent to continue the "big lie of Election 2000" which is that Bush wouldn't have won Florida unless all of his cronies had handed him the election
Old 08-09-04, 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by wmansir
Those scheming liberals are a crafty bunch! Now those evil euro-commies are going to steal the election!

Seriously, I don't like it but it's not horrible.
They entered into an agreement to allow OSCE to observe 10 years ago. The current state department invited them for the 2004 election.
Old 08-09-04, 03:37 PM
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Suprmallet

Some of these reactions seem a little knee-jerk.
Hardly knee-jerk, at least with my opinion. It's a simple philosophy: I don't want foreigners affecting domestic elections. What the scope of this "international team" will be doing is unclear, so I can't really comment on this specifically. If they are there to observe for mutual learning, then I don't mind. If they are there to monitor and actively comment on the "fairness" of the process as it applies to us, I don't want any part of it. This democracy thing is supposed to be pretty damn good. If we can't handle it on our own, then we have some serious problems. My opinion has nothing to do with Europe or anyone else; it's simply a product of believing that we should be able to handle our own business when it comes to elections.

das
Old 08-09-04, 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by PrivateJoker
My thoughts exactly. The thought of euro-socialists acting as (cough) unbiased judge should put fear in everybody regarding this. Imagine...OSCE vs. USA in the world court, deciding upon a binding interpretation of the US Constitution. Scary stuff indeed.

There is nothing to be gained by doing this.
Exactly! We know when someone buys an election! Just because we're too lazy to do anything about it it doesn't mean we need them to tell us.
Old 08-09-04, 03:39 PM
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Brain Stew

Now most of them didn't come out and say Democrat. But mentioning that they will fix it so Kerry wins or saying that is is a Euro-Socialist plot is implying Democrat handywork.
Who's reaching again? Groucho and DaveNinja were clearly joking, and you're putting words in PrivateJoker's mouth.

das
Old 08-09-04, 03:40 PM
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Its so great that all these people are screaming "knee jerk" reactions when they are ready to suck on the tit of whatever facts a leftist columnist provides as proof as "conspiracy of the day" i.e. Bush AWOL, Saudi Arabians taking planes, oil pipleines in Afghanistan etc.
Old 08-09-04, 03:40 PM
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I'm not liking how anyone who disagrees with Americans is hated. I guess that's the American way nowadays.
Clearly the other countries don't want this election to turn out into an ugly mess which seems like it's heading that way. I still can't believe the U.S. doens't turn to the 3 party system like in Europe where any one party doesn't get too much power.

Heck Europe is now more democratic than the U.S.
Old 08-09-04, 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
Here's why it's a bad thing:

"The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe was invited to monitor the election by the State Department."

In other words, please hold our hand through the process that took root in the West primarily because of us.
That's one way to interpret it.

Another way is that after the election, no matter the outcome, you could have a neutral party confirming that the election was run fairly and the democratic proccess was upheld and all that. Seems like a good idea to me considering the last election.
Old 08-09-04, 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by chanster
Its so great that all these people are screaming "knee jerk" reactions when they are ready to suck on the tit of whatever facts a leftist columnist provides as proof as "conspiracy of the day" i.e. Bush AWOL, Saudi Arabians taking planes, oil pipleines in Afghanistan etc.
I love tits! so sue me!!
Old 08-09-04, 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by chanster
Are you kidding me? This whole thing started because some Democratic senators called on the U.N. to monitor the elections. There is no way anybody would allow the U.N. to come in, so they picked some piece of shit European organization so the black Democrats can claim they got something done.

I'm not sure that is true. I'm unhappy with the Dems who went to the UN because they thought the 2000 election was stolen (although they were over-represented on the commission that investigated Florida and didn't find any civil rights violations.

Powell cleverly found a previous agreement on election monitoring that he could invoke that was "equivalent" to the request but went to a different group, not the UN the Dems wanted. As I noted above, the article points out this group has already monitored two US elections. Of course, ten observers does nothing. The US monitors elections by having a Democratic and Republican monitor at every polling station who can call in issues they observe and getting "bigger guns" involved.

I think this is another molehill --> mountain that Otter is famous for.
Old 08-09-04, 03:44 PM
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Neutral party? What do you call the U.S. Supreme Court? Oh thats right they are a bush of Bush cronies, thats part of the "Big Lie of Election 2000"
Old 08-09-04, 03:45 PM
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Huge Bean

Another way is that after the election, no matter the outcome, you could have a neutral party confirming that the election was run fairly and the democratic proccess was upheld and all that. Seems like a good idea to me considering the last election.
I think it's an inherently bad situation to desire some outside confirmation. We really should be able to handle this on our own. If we can't, then the process needs to be modified so we can.

das
Old 08-09-04, 03:52 PM
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That's exactly what needs to be done. But until then we need some help from nations that have more stabilized governments than us.

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