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Observers say Kerry's "Shove it" worse than Cheney's "go f*** yourself"

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Observers say Kerry's "Shove it" worse than Cheney's "go f*** yourself"

Old 08-09-04, 11:59 AM
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Observers say Kerry's "Shove it" worse than Cheney's "go f*** yourself"

With family and friends, politics was raised and we got on the topic of Teresa Kerry's recent "shove it" remark to a reporter that she claims had misrepresented her. All of the guests (other than me) felt that her comment was "out of control" and very "inappropriate." They said she was "caught in a lie" and lashed out because of that.

I brought up the Cheney remark of "go f*** yourself" and asked how they felt about that. I was told that the Cheney comment was not as bad. I maintained that "go f*** yourself" is much more profane and inappropriate. But they disagreed. I was told that for a "woman" to say "shove it" raises it's seriousness many fold because women are expected to be "lady like." They said that men are generally expected to be outspoken and aggressive and, therefore, the Cheney comment is not as bad.

I was also told that the reporter that quoted Kerry was "completely accurate" in his reporting and that Kerry denied she said it. The audio proves she said "exactly" was was reported and, therefore, caught her in a lie.

That's completely opposite from what I heard and read. What surprised me is that I was the ONLY one in our dinner group that didn't agree with what was being said about Kerry.

Any observations or accurate information? Thanks.

Last edited by ricwhite; 08-09-04 at 12:02 PM.
Old 08-09-04, 12:07 PM
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A recent political cartoon I saw said the blue states will be renamed "shove it" states and the red states will be renamed "go f**k yourself" states for the next election.

I think they were both out-of-line.
Old 08-09-04, 12:11 PM
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While I can't really refute that there are many people who will think that way, it's silly. Personally, I don't have a problem with either. If you get in my face and out of line, I may tell you to "go **** yourself" or "shove it" too. So what. Although, I recognize most people will react negatively to these things regardless of context, and politicians should too.

I disagree with you that "shove it" is less inappropriate, though. Its implied meaning is just as bad as "go **** yourself." In some ways, it's actually worse.

But to claim that one is worse because it was said by a woman? That's silly.

das
Old 08-09-04, 12:13 PM
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Not something I care enough to go back to the context, etc. about, to be honest.

Neither bothers me in the least.
Old 08-09-04, 12:14 PM
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I'm just wondering where the phrase 'Sit on It' would fall on the offensive expression list? Then what if you add the term 'Bucko' after it?
Old 08-09-04, 12:14 PM
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I don't really care.

I do know that Leahy was deserving of the comment made to him.

I don't know if the reporter was deserving of the comment made to him.

Old 08-09-04, 12:16 PM
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The fact that people are bothered by cursing, in this day and age, amazes me, but at least I can understand it. But the fact that somebody could be bothered by "shove it" is beyond my comprehension. 5 year olds say worse things than that.
Old 08-09-04, 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
Not something I care enough to go back to the context, etc. about, to be honest.

Neither bothers me in the least.
I agree. These should be non-issues.

Both are inappropriate, but we have bigger problems that one adult telling another to go "f themself" or "shove it".
Old 08-09-04, 12:18 PM
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Red Dog

I'm just wondering where the phrase 'Sit on It' would fall on the offensive expression list? Then what if you add the term 'Bucko' after it?
I'm pretty sure there's a commandment or something that says "Sit on it" must always be followed by "Potsie." "Bucko" could definitely follow a "not so fast."

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Old 08-09-04, 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by classicman2
I don't really care.

I do know that Leahy was deserving of the comment made to him.

I don't know if the reporter was deserving of the comment made to him.


Strong agreement on all counts.
Old 08-09-04, 12:25 PM
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Cheney's comment was made in private. It was not made into a microphone, in front of a TV camera or for an audience. Tereza's comment was made in public (as were John Kerry's numerous F-bombs in Rolling Stone magazine earlier this year).
Old 08-09-04, 12:44 PM
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Who gives a f***?
Old 08-09-04, 12:49 PM
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My perception of the First Lady is one of elegence and dignity. I think of Jackie O, Lady Bird Johnson and a few others. I don't think that the First Lady should just sit back out of the shadows and not be active while in the White House, but instead support her husband in a dignified manner.

Kerry's wife, on the other hand has her own agenda, money and thats find and dandy, but she's now shown her true colors with her denial's and because of her, I think she will in a way overshadow Kerry and make him look P-whipped.
Old 08-09-04, 12:56 PM
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I'm guessing most of your family members are conservative?

At any rate, I don't care about either one. Big deal. The only difference is that one comes from somebody whose actually on the ticket.
Old 08-09-04, 12:58 PM
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What exactly did Leahy say to get Cheney's goat?
Old 08-09-04, 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by kahuna415
Kerry's wife, on the other hand has her own agenda, money and thats find and dandy, but she's now shown her true colors with her denial's and because of her, I think she will in a way overshadow Kerry and make him look P-whipped.
Oh like that's a first for the Democrats.... the wife of a presidential candidate with her own agenda. Can you say national healthcare or spell PMRC? I don't think Laura or Barbara or Nancy had any agendas, but Hillary and Tipper sure did, and it wouldn't surprise me if Teresa had one too.
Old 08-09-04, 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by weargle
What exactly did Leahy say to get Cheney's goat?
Leahy's very presence gets people's goat.
Old 08-09-04, 01:04 PM
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I think she will in a way overshadow Kerry and make him look P-whipped.
It's not a particular part of Teresa's anatomy that keeps John in line. It's a bunch of old dead presidents of hers that keeps John towing the mark.
Old 08-09-04, 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Groucho
I'm guessing most of your family members are conservative?

At any rate, I don't care about either one. Big deal. The only difference is that one comes from somebody whose actually on the ticket.
Moderately conservative Groucho. I do think the office of the President does have to hold up some aire of dignity and its not without some fault. I don't think the President will have a nose ring and tattoos and the First Lady will a have tongue stud in the future, but as society progresses I do think that people should take responsibilty with actions hold fast to what they believe. If you say something on the record, you should stand behind it and not get some momentary lapse of reason and deny it.

Enough said.

Last edited by kahuna415; 08-09-04 at 01:12 PM.
Old 08-09-04, 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by weargle
What exactly did Leahy say to get Cheney's goat?
The Veepster was accused by Leahy of profiting (via Halliburton) on the blood of American soldiers spilled in Iraq. When Leahy approached Cheney at Senate function later, full of smarmy bonhomie, Cheney told him to **** off, or to go **** himself (accounts vary, but everyone agrees the F-bomb was dropped).
Old 08-09-04, 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by weargle
What exactly did Leahy say to get Cheney's goat?
After a great deal of very snide and nasty comments made behind the back of the Vice President by the good Senator, he then spoke wonderfully nice and pleasant to Mr. Cheney's face. The Vice President took extreme exception to the two-faced nature of Mr. Leahy.
Old 08-09-04, 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by classicman2
I don't know if the reporter was deserving of the comment made to him.
He was. He's one of Richard Mellon Scaife's hatchet men from the Greensburg Tribune Review. He's somewhere on the food chain below National Enquirer reporters and car salesmen.
Old 08-09-04, 01:21 PM
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I watched the tape LINK

I just got through viewing the tape on Tereza Kerry and did find some support for her story. She did give a speech where she did, at one point, say "and, sometimes, unAmerican traits". The reporter that confronted her afterward wanted her to clarify what she meant by saying "UnAmerican activities." She snapped back that she didn't say "unAmerican activities" -- which is true.

However, she also DIDN'T clarify what she meant by "sometimes, unAmerican tactics." It was obvious that Kerry's relationship with this reporter was already strained and she wanted nothing to do with him.

Personally, I think a "First Lady" will need to be more diplomatic and be willing to put up with reporters that will bug her. That's part of politics. What she should have done with the reporter was leave. Kerry was the one that actually "sought out" the reporter and confronted him and said "shove it." In other words, she "did" lose control and her temper.

That said, however. I feel that the "shove it" comment was not really anything but a reflection that she is human and not very experienced with politics yet. I still maintain that Cheney's comment is, for MOST people, more offensive.

The bottom line is that Republicans will support Cheney and denounce Kerry. Democrates will support what Kerry said, while condeming Cheney's comments. It's pure politics and very close to the same kind of defensive level as a discussion of religion.

LINK TO VIDEO ON KERRY AND REPORTER

Last edited by ricwhite; 08-09-04 at 01:27 PM.
Old 08-09-04, 01:26 PM
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Re: I watched the tape LINK

Originally posted by ricwhite
I just got through viewing the tape on Tereza Kerry and did find some support for her story. She did give a speech where she did, at one point, say "and, sometimes, unAmerican tactics". The reporter that confronted her afterward wanted her to clarify what she meant by saying "UnAmerican activities." She snapped back that she didn't say "unAmerican activities" -- which is true.

However, she also DIDN'T clarify what she meant by "sometimes, unAmerican tactics." It was obvious that Kerry's relationship with this reporter was already strained and she wanted nothing to do with him.

Personally, I think a "First Lady" will need to be more diplomatic and be willing to put up with reporters that will bug her. That's part of politics. What she should have done with the reporter was leave. Kerry was the one that actually "sought out" the reporter and confronted him and said "shove it." In other words, she "did" lose control and her temper.

That said, however. I feel that the "shove it" comment was not really anything but a reflection that she is human and not very experienced with politics yet. I still maintain that Cheney's comment is, for MOST people, more offensive.

The bottom line is that Republicans will support Cheney and denounce Kerry. Democrates will support what Kerry said, while condeming Cheney's comments. It's pure politics and very close to the same kind of defensive level as a discussion of religion.

LINK TO VIDEO ON KERRY AND REPORTER

No, you seen plenty of posts in this thread by both Dems and Republicans who feel that both are irrelevant.
Old 08-09-04, 01:30 PM
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Re: Re: I watched the tape LINK

Originally posted by Pharoh
No, you seen plenty of posts in this thread by both Dems and Republicans who feel that both are irrelevant.
Sorry, my comment was poorly worded. I should have said "some extremist" Republicans and Democrates will always support their own kind while condeming the other party no matter what the topic or comment.

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