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Kerry's "Christmas in Cambodia"

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Kerry's "Christmas in Cambodia"

Old 08-06-04, 01:57 PM
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Kerry's "Christmas in Cambodia"

Somebody please tell me how any of this stuff squares at all...

KERRY'S CHRISTMAS IN CAMBODIA [08/06 11:39 AM]

This is from Unfit for Command, the new book by John O'Neill, the man who took over John Kerry's Swift Boat, and co-author Jerome Corsi:

Kerry also described, for example, for the Boston Herald his vivid memories of his Christmas Eve spent in Cambodia:

"I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was
very real."

Problem One: Nixon hadn't taken office yet.

Problem Two: "During Christmas 1968, he was more than fifty miles away from Cambodia. Kerry was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there.

During Christmas 1968, Kerry was stationed at Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo. Coastal Division 13’s patrol areas extended to Sa Dec, about fifty-five miles from the Cambodian border...

All the living commanders in Kerry’s chain of command—Joe Streuhli (Commander of CosDiv 13), George Elliott (Commander of CosDiv 11), Adrian Lonsdale (Captain, USCG and Commander, Coastal Surveillance Center at An Thoi), Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann (Commander, Coastal Surveillance Force Vietnam, CTF 115), and Rear Admiral Art Price (Commander of River Patrol Force, CTF 116)—deny that Kerry was ever ordered to Cambodia...

At least three of the five crewmen on Kerry’s PCF 44 boat—Bill Zaldonis, Steven Hatch, and Steve Gardner—deny that they or their boat were ever in Cambodia. The remaining two crewmen declined to be interviewed for this book.

The Cambodia incursion story is not included in Tour of Duty [the book on Kerry's war years by Douglas Brinkley]. Instead, Kerry replaces the story with a report about a mortar attack that occurred on Christmas Eve 1968 “near the Cambodia border” in a town called Sa Dec, some fifty-five miles from the Cambodian border.

Somehow, Kerry’s secret illegal mission to Cambodia, which he recounted on the floor of the U.S. Senate in 1986, is now a firefight at Sa Dec and a Christmas day spent back at the base writing entries in his journal.
Unless O'Neill and Corsi have made some major error in their reporting, this is pretty stunning. Either Kerry is a pathological liar, or every man in his chain of command is.
Pretty major stuff, since this looks like Kerry repeatedly lying about the War for political gain - to the Senate, to the Boston Globe, to the guy who wrote the book for him - and changing his story drastically about the events from one time to another - stories that don't match up in any way.
Old 08-06-04, 02:05 PM
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Don't you ever get sick of posting this stuff? I know I'm sick of it.
Old 08-06-04, 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
Don't you ever get sick of posting this stuff? I know I'm sick of it.
Old 08-06-04, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
Don't you ever get sick of posting this stuff? I know I'm sick of it.
Old 08-06-04, 02:12 PM
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Re: Kerry's "Christmas in Cambodia"

I'm aware of


and


but that's about it.
Old 08-06-04, 02:13 PM
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How many threads do we need about this book?
Old 08-06-04, 02:14 PM
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As many as it takes to match "Bush was AWOL"?
Old 08-06-04, 02:15 PM
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Agreed.
Old 08-06-04, 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Chew
As many as it takes to match "Bush was AWOL"?
Yes, but that story was not only around here for months, it was splashed in the mainstream press for weeks as well, and it only amounted to charges by the DNC, not actual witnesses and people to anything near this scale.

The press is all but ignoring this story.

The liberals here should be glad their guy only has to get it in these threads and not in the mainstream public discourse like Bush did.

And I notice nobody has answered the actual charge here. Just the fact that I "dared" post it.
Old 08-06-04, 02:26 PM
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At this point, since I've posted in almost every single one of your daily threads you've ripped from instapundit, I'll say this. I really don't care at this point what happened in 1968, it has little or no bearing on what he is planning to do if he becomes president. I don't care, and I won't ever care. I'm finished posting in these ridiculous threads.
Old 08-06-04, 02:27 PM
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www.drudgereport.com

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRI AUG 06, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

BOSTON GLOBE 'REPORTER' PAID TO WRITE CAMPAIGN BOOK FORWARD WHILE COVERING KERRY

BOSTON GLOBE reporter Mike Kranish made waves on Friday by reporting "a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions."

But Captain George Elliott claims the Kranish article is "extremely inaccurate" and highly misstated his actual views.

Oddly, journalist Kranish has been commissioned to write the foreword of the official Kerry-Edwards campaign book -- just as he is covering the campaign in an official capacity as a journalist for the BOSTON GLOBE!

Developing...
Just... wow.

Now this lie about the guy retracting his story has gone out to all the papers, radio stations and TV - the papers may have time to correct it, but it's been playing on radio and TV - in essence, becoming "the story" - people remember the big splash more than the retractions, and that was no doubt the design of this guy all along.

It's just like the despicable NYT and Washington post "4 year old intelligence" stories which have STILL left the impressions in most people's minds that the newest alert was based ONLY on old information. Even though the facts have later come out, "the story" is now that old information was the only thing that caused the alert - the corrections of the record didn't reach the ears that the "big splash" did, and the media succeeded in spinning the truth into a negative for the President yet again - this time at detriment to the security of our nation, by making people doubt the terror warnings themselves.

But I guess if it helps John Kerry, it's okay... Right?
Old 08-06-04, 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
At this point, since I've posted in almost every single one of your daily threads you've ripped from instapundit, I'll say this. I really don't care at this point what happened in 1968, it has little or no bearing on what he is planning to do if he becomes president. I don't care, and I won't ever care. I'm finished posting in these ridiculous threads.
You might not care (and frankly, neither do I), but Kerry is making 1968 a huge center of his campaign. He can't expect us to only look at the good he did there without an anal probe of the bad.
Old 08-06-04, 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
At this point, since I've posted in almost every single one of your daily threads you've ripped from instapundit, I'll say this. I really don't care at this point what happened in 1968, it has little or no bearing on what he is planning to do if he becomes president. I don't care, and I won't ever care. I'm finished posting in these ridiculous threads.
The problem with this, FinkPish, is that KERRY HAS MADE US CARE by making Vietnam the central pillar of his campaign.

He has not offered ANY specifics on what he wants to do in the future - his only "plan" for the War on Terror boils down to trying to get the French and Germans to like us again, and he alludes to some "secret plan" that he can't reveal to get this done.

He won't talk about his 19 years in the Senate, and he won't offer any specifics for his future plans. The central thing he has talked about has been his Vietnam service.

If he wants to make it an issue, why are we not allowed to treat it like one?

That hardly seems fair, does it?
Old 08-06-04, 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
I'm finished posting in these ridiculous threads.
Who are you?
Old 08-06-04, 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Mutley Hyde
Who are you?
Old 08-06-04, 03:01 PM
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I'm glad, you of all people, could find the humor in that. It's good that our partisanship doesn't get in the way of a mutual laugh every now and then. to you, sir.
Old 08-06-04, 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Mutley Hyde


I'm glad, you of all people, could find the humor in that. It's good that our partisanship doesn't get in the way of a mutual laugh every now and then. to you, sir.
CRM is partisan?








j/k - to him, too. It wouldn't be "here" without him, and those on the other side of him, too.
Old 08-06-04, 03:33 PM
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I heard on the news that a lot of the footage of Kerry in Vietnam in his military gear was shot after he already got out. He went back there to reinact stuff because he planned on being in politics in the future.

As for not caring about what happened in vietnam, I agree to an extent. Kerry served in Vietnam. That is very honorable, especially since he did not believe in the war. However, the things he said about the war and the people who fought in it once he got back should definitely matter to potential voters. None of us were there with Kerry, so we don't know what happened and what is true and what is a lie. However, the fact that this is the only thing Kerry is using to run on is a joke. He hasn't talked about what he's accomplished in his 19 years in the senate, because there is nothing he's accomplished. He has flip flopped on every issue and skipped out on a good number of meetings (including 38 of 49 hearings about defense spending). The guy has no core beliefs and nothing to stand on.

Back to the Vietnam charges. Nobody knows whether he is telling the truth or if the swift vets guys are. What we do know is that Kerry protested the war once he got back and bad mouthed all the soldiers fighting in the war. He accused the troops of committing war atrocities and war crimes, "raping, beheading innocent people" etc. So, why did he not report these crimes in 1968 when he was in Vietnam (perhaps it's because he spent a mere 4 months in, instead of the traditional 12 month tour). The fact that he didn't bring it up until 3 years later in 1971 is very fishy. Therefore, this stuff matters. Do you want a person who claims to have committed war crimes and atrocities while in war as well as a person who bad mouthed our country and the troops for fighting the war as the commander in chief of our great country? Cause I sure as hell don't. Say what you will about his service in Vietnam, but don't miss the important fact of what Kerry said and did after returning home.
Old 08-06-04, 11:31 PM
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You sure you heard right, xDareDevilx? What I read was that he would go back, during his tour of duty, when the area was secured, and re-enact it then, not after got out. I mean, how would he go back?
Old 08-07-04, 12:08 AM
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smear smear smear...

reality: the eleven guys standing on stage with Kerry trump all the partisan smear campaign bullshit...if not with you, certainly with the general public.
Old 08-07-04, 12:50 AM
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John McCain came out today to defend Kerry's Vietnam record.

I believe that John O'Neill was a Nixon operative who was used as a foil to Kerry in the 70s because Nixon feared that Kerry brought a tremendous amount of credibility to the anti-war movement. Now he's back.

If we're going to question the credibility of Mike Kranish, the Boston Globe reporter, then should we also question the credibility of the Boston Herald reporter? We should definitely question the credibility of Drudge.

Nixon may not have been in office in Christmas 1968, but he won in November and prior to that he undermined LBJ's negotiations for peace. Basically, the North Vietnamese were ready to sign a peace agreement, but Nixon had Kissinger tell the South Vietnamese that they could get a better deal under a Nixon Administration. So the South walked away and the negotiations fell through. The deal that the U.S. signed in 1973 was not much different from what the Vietnamese were on the brink of agreeing to in 1968. Plus, the quote from Kerry doesn't claim that Nixon was President in Christmas 1968, the quote just says that Nixon claimed at some point that there were no troops in Cambodia.

If Kerry was in Cambodia, then it would have been a violation of international law since Cambodia was technically a neutral country. So of course, the commanders you listed would have denied that they ordered him to engage in an illegal action.

If Kerry wasn't in Cambodia, then is it possible that the Boston Herald reporter misquoted Kerry? The official record places him at 55 miles away. Maybe the reporter mistakenly wrote down 5 instead of 55. Or perhaps it was Kerry who misspoke and said 5 miles when he meant 55 miles.

Whatever the case, this issue shows how desperate the Republicans are getting. The ad by the swift boat group against Kerry is being funded by a big Republican donor. No matter how you spin it, the poll numbers don't look good for Bush (see this article: http://www.slate.com/id/2104745/ ). The recent jobs report shows especially weak numbers in the battleground states. So when your foreign policy is poorly planned and executed and your economic policy has mixed results that lean more toward the negative than positive, what is left for you to do? Bring up divisive social/cultural wedge issues and smear your opponent.

Last edited by DeGalon; 08-07-04 at 01:02 AM.
Old 08-07-04, 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by DeGalon
J

Whatever the case, this issue shows how desperate the Republicans are getting. The ad by the swift boat group against Kerry is being funded by a big Republican donor.
what is the donor? The way I understood it, the swift vets funded it all themselves. Also, this is not good for the GOP or President Bush at all. If anything, it would make Bush look bad. The GOP is not desperate, poll #'s don't mean anything, especially at this point. After the DNC, there was at least one poll that showed Bush's #'s up and Kerry got hardly any bounce, if any at all, depending on which polls you look at. But seriously, what is the donor?
Old 08-07-04, 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by chess
reality: the eleven guys standing on stage with Kerry trump all the partisan smear campaign bullshit...if not with you, certainly with the general public.
That's funny. Cause that was last week, this is this week. Hopefully everyone tuned in for the convention to see those guys on stage... though you wouldn't think it by the amount of "bounce" Kerry got.

I certainly tuned in... and to be honest those guys standing there suprised me. But this book trumps them so bad it's not even funny. If not with you, certainly with the general public.


Old 08-07-04, 01:13 AM
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this is all just plain silly
Old 08-07-04, 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by xDareDevilx
what is the donor? The way I understood it, the swift vets funded it all themselves. Also, this is not good for the GOP or President Bush at all. If anything, it would make Bush look bad. The GOP is not desperate, poll #'s don't mean anything, especially at this point. After the DNC, there was at least one poll that showed Bush's #'s up and Kerry got hardly any bounce, if any at all, depending on which polls you look at. But seriously, what is the donor?
Bob Perry, a Texas home builder, and a few others.

This is the first article I found on a google search, so don't think I'm presenting it as "gospel"...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-b...1156-1232r.htm

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