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Home Improvement - Replacement Windows

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Home Improvement - Replacement Windows

Old 04-22-03, 08:02 PM
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Home Improvement - Replacement Windows

I'm looking into vinyl replacement windows for my house. I've got 16 windows of varying sizes; 14 double-hung and 2 sliders. I've lived in the house for around 9 months and getting fed up with the unattractive, drafty, and sometimes inoperable wooden windows.

So far I've got two quotes, the window products are similar in that they're energy-star rated, argon-filled, Low-E glass, custom-fitted, etc.

1. An all-vinyl window, double-paned. Lifetime breakage warranty, 20-year seal warranty. $9295. These are a house-branded Simonton window. 6-months same as cash plan.

2. A vinyl-clad aluminum window, triple-paned (but at "double-pane prices!"). 10-year breakage warranty, 50-year everything else warranty. $15000. Salesman offered free installation if I signed a contract "TODAY!" which obviously I didn't do. The labor was only $1400 of the total. These are Thermal-Gard windows. 90-days same as cash plan.

So, some questions for the massive pool of knowledge we call the Other Forum:

1. Will a well-constructed all-vinyl window truly "melt" and sag? How long would this take? Is it a real concern when there's a lifetime warranty on the thing?

2. Does a KC, Missouri window really need 3 panes of glass? Or are triple-panes more useful in more extreme climates?

3. Is my reasoning here correct? $15,000 is much too much to pay, because the windows will not add $15,000 to the value of my home, and I don't even have $15,000 in equity currently.

Any other thoughts, suggestions, or gotchas I should be looking for here?

Thanks.
Old 04-22-03, 08:22 PM
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I live just north of you St. Joseph and I have double pane windows. Sure is nice in the winter. I have 17 windows,did it myself for about $9000.00. I bought name brand. It took 2 days with a friend.
Old 04-22-03, 08:52 PM
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$15K would be almost $1K per window which is high. What brand were they?

Have you checked Andersen replacement windows where the company fits the existing openings? I got a quote awhile back but didn't get any windows. I think the price would be between the two quotes you've gotten.

I recently got a quote from Pella and they were about $900 per window f/the top of the line with real wood inserts, argon, low-E, etc. I thought this sounded high and yes it included labor. I'm going to get another quote from Andersen since it's been about four years.

We put Pella's on our home addition. I remember hearing that three pane was overkill and weren't any better than two pane that were of good quality, especially w/the argon gas, etc.
Old 04-22-03, 09:25 PM
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I have installed several jobs with the Siminton windows and for whats its worth I think they are the best replacement window available. Excellent design and terrific support from the company.
You won't be disappointed.
Old 04-22-03, 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by Sepen
I have installed several jobs with the Siminton windows and for whats its worth I think they are the best replacement window available. Excellent design and terrific support from the company.
You won't be disappointed.
Do they have any where the grids are thick like older windows, not the flat strips that have no depth?

Example of the 7/8" on our Pella Architect series.

Old 04-22-03, 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by Sepen
I have installed several jobs with the Siminton windows and for whats its worth I think they are the best replacement window available. Excellent design and terrific support from the company.
You won't be disappointed.
You're talking about the all-vinyl windows, right? Have you ever seen one with the top sash starting to sag?
Old 04-22-03, 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Buford T Pusser
Do they have any where the grids are thick like older windows, not the flat strips that have no depth?

Example of the 7/8" on our Pella Architect series.

I don't think they do, since they usually sandwich the grids in between the panes; not a lot of room for grid depth.

On your Pella Architect, is the window actually several panes divided by the grid, or is it a single pane with the grid floating on top?
Old 04-22-03, 10:35 PM
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From the sounds of it, I would look to good store brand windows from Home Depot and put them in yourself. The learning curve isn't too bad, and it will probably run closer to $5,000
Old 04-22-03, 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by TeeSeeJay
I don't think they do, since they usually sandwich the grids in between the panes; not a lot of room for grid depth.

On your Pella Architect, is the window actually several panes divided by the grid, or is it a single pane with the grid floating on top?
It's a single pane (better for heat/cold) but the wood makes it look like multi-pane to match the windows already in our 1920's house.
Old 04-23-03, 02:17 AM
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Wood inserts, grids = Muntins.
Old 04-23-03, 02:21 AM
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Pellas

http://www.pella.com

I have been replacing all my windows/doors with Pellas. I like the windows where the inner panes are easily removed. The window treatment is between the two panes of glass.




The window screen rolls up and out of sight.

The materials is wood wiht aluminum cladding exterior. Saves on painting. I would not use all vinyl or aluminum window.s
Old 04-23-03, 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by kvrdave
From the sounds of it, I would look to good store brand windows from Home Depot and put them in yourself. The learning curve isn't too bad, and it will probably run closer to $5,000
I agree... It can be pretty easy to put in.. The only thing you might need to hire someone to cap the outside and maybe replace the big windows.
Home depot sells the American Craftsman window(8500 seriesI think). You can expect to pay, depending on the size $200 - $400 an window.
I installed my own windows. I installed my windows from the outside so I wouldn't screw up the woodwork on the inside. It is real easy to install the windows from the outside. The only real concern is yo have to get the measurements right...

The triple pane is not worth it unles you have alot of noise where your at....
Old 04-23-03, 10:48 AM
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When I did this a couple years ago, the rule of thumb was, on average, expect to pay $500 per window, including installation. That was for dual pane vinyl retrofits.
Old 04-23-03, 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by ANDREMIKE
I agree... It can be pretty easy to put in.. The only thing you might need to hire someone to cap the outside and maybe replace the big windows.
Home depot sells the American Craftsman window(8500 seriesI think). You can expect to pay, depending on the size $200 - $400 an window.
I installed my own windows. I installed my windows from the outside so I wouldn't screw up the woodwork on the inside. It is real easy to install the windows from the outside. The only real concern is yo have to get the measurements right...

The triple pane is not worth it unles you have alot of noise where your at....
I am thinking the same (replacing my own) but I do not know exactly I will finish on the outside. How much does it usually cost to hire someone to cap the outside? Would the window companies take on such a job?
Old 04-23-03, 12:56 PM
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I paid $50.00 a window... This was probably a little high. But I knew the guy to be reputible..
I would say try to hirer a guy on the side to do it.... or look for the little guy that does it..
Old 04-24-03, 11:32 AM
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So here is something interesting on my quest for estimates for replacment windows. I am calling 8-10 places and after I provide my information, some of the places ask if there is a spouse. Simple question right? I say yes, then they tell me both of us have to be home in order for them to send out a rep for an estimate!

Here I am trying to argue that both of us do not need to be home and it is only for an estimate. The rep on the phone compared it to buying a house, where both of us would need to look at the house prior to buying it. Comparing a $200K or more investment to a $2-4k investment? In the end, I just tell them forget it.

Now I understand they want both parties to be at home so they can pitch their sales line. Which is fine if I had only called one place but I am calling different places for quotes and my spouse and I will not be both taking time off work every time we need an estimate.

So I recommend everyone who reads this to say no to the spouse question if it is brought up otherwise you will both have to be present just to get an estimate. Unless, of course you both want to be present in order to decide on the windows.
Old 04-24-03, 11:43 AM
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No Tim Taylor comments yet?
Old 04-24-03, 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by mapson
So here is something interesting on my quest for estimates for replacment windows. I am calling 8-10 places and after I provide my information, some of the places ask if there is a spouse. Simple question right? I say yes, then they tell me both of us have to be home in order for them to send out a rep for an estimate!
High pressure sales pitch will commence. If you really want a quote from these turkeys, just tell them no spouse on the phone. When they try to pressure you to sign on the deal say I need to talk it over with my wife. Beat 'em at their own game.
Old 04-24-03, 12:20 PM
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Agreed. The spouse requirement is for high pressure sales and you will be pressured to sign something right then. I would not want to do business with those people regardless.

You might want to go to the local Home Depot or ?? and ask in the Window Department if there is an installer they would recommend or use.
Old 04-24-03, 12:34 PM
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Home depot does the exact same sales pitch...

I know because they came out and gave me an estimate... They want you to sign right then and there..
Old 04-24-03, 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by ANDREMIKE
Home depot does the exact same sales pitch...

I know because they came out and gave me an estimate... They want you to sign right then and there..
Can you get the estimates right at the store if you have the measurements already? Or does someone still have to come out?
Old 04-24-03, 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by mapson
So here is something interesting on my quest for estimates for replacment windows. I am calling 8-10 places and after I provide my information, some of the places ask if there is a spouse. Simple question right? I say yes, then they tell me both of us have to be home in order for them to send out a rep for an estimate!
I always assume that if they wanted the spouse around it was because they think you won't get real mad at them in front of your spouse, or something. And presumably that was because they intended to rip you off. It's like when I needed a new transmission for my car and every place I called wanted me to bring in the car before they would give me an estimate. Like I'm the only person in town who has ever needed a rebuild job for a 1984 Escort transmission.
Old 04-24-03, 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by ANDREMIKE
Home depot does the exact same sales pitch...

I know because they came out and gave me an estimate... They want you to sign right then and there..
Actually, the first estimate I got was from Home Depot, and the guy wasn't pressuring me at all. I told him to give me a follow-up call in a couple weeks, he was fine with that. Didn't ask if I had a spouse when I set up the appointment.

Second estimate, they did ask if there was a spouse, and there WAS high-pressure buy-this-right-now-or-you-lose-this-promotion-incentive crap.
Old 04-24-03, 02:28 PM
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That has been my experience at the local Home Depot. The guys that work there are local contractors and often they can tell me about someone else they recommend.

I went to Dixieline a few weeks ago to get estimates on Anderson windows. No pressure, very helpful. I was just not thrilled with the quality and features of the Andersons. They happily gave me a written quote and a book for free.

I went to the Pella store and they also didn't do any hard sales. He explained the features and benefits and showed me options and than gave me a written quote. Of course, the Pellas are not cheap.
Old 04-24-03, 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by mapson
Can you get the estimates right at the store if you have the measurements already? Or does someone still have to come out?
Your talking about 2 different things.. Are you putting them in yourself? If so then there is no problem... Just bring them the dimensions and they can figure out how much the window itself is. This does not include installation because your doing it yourself. You can order the windows 2 different ways. 1. You can give them the opening and the manufacturer will subtract what it thinks is neccesary for the window to fit. 2. You can order the window at the exact measurments that you tell them. Just make sure you subtract the 1/4" from each side. The replacement windows come in certain increments for width and height .. so you might have to go 1/2 or even 3/4 smaller. You will have to ask what the increments are....I don't remeber.. Its different for height and width. Just try to get it right the first time. Don't worry to much about height because the windows come with a header expander if they are too small. It can expand u to 1-2" Look for some websites on how to measure your window. The trickiest part is the height because the sill is on an angle. Therefore you need to measure from the top of the sill's angle to the header.

Here is a website...
http://www.1stwindows.com/measure.htm

I installed my windows from the outside so I wouldn't ruin any of the woodwork on the inside. I did have to cut the brick mold(the wood around the outside of the window) to place the window in. I wish I had some how too pics.... If you post pics of the outside frame and the inside frame I will show you...

If your unsure how to measure then have a pro come out and measure for you and ask lots of questions when you see him measuring...


Home Depot has a service that offers to send someone out so they can install the windows.

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