nothingfails

well pray tell why is there no problem with The Bee Gees, Michael Jackson and Billy Joel being in the "rock and roll boys club" despite none of them being rock artists (Prince skated the line between pop, rock and r&b enough that all three fanbases could accept him as one of them, MJ, BJ and Bee Gees were completely pop), while Madonna, Donna Summer and ABBA being inducted are travesties and insults to the "real rock artists"? The only real difference I see between the first batch and the second is one is male and the other female. If the King Of Pop Michael Jackson is fine, then why not Queen Of Pop Madonna? Same with the disco kings The Bee Gees and the disco queen Donna Summer?

It's the rockist types who keep talking about how Madonna, ABBA and Donna Summer ruins their beloved rock god institution but yet stay remarkably moot when it comes to male pop counterparts who were contemporaries as well. What makes ABBA or Donna Summer less worthy of the HOF than The Bee Gees, really? Especially in Donna Summer's case where she dabbled in rock for a spell in the early 1980s and actually got the best critical praise of her career, so if Billy Joel is somehow "rock" because of the Glass Houses album and a few other singles, you could make the same argument for Donna's case. Plus in both Donna and ABBA's cases, it was a Rush/Kiss thing where they only got in well over a decade after initial eligibility and in Donna's case after she died (much like Lou Reed dying sped his solo induction up), so it isn't like Jann put them in day one.

creekdipper

Personally, I couldn't care less that Sammy Davis, Jr. married a white woman.

All of the pop/rock/blues etc. debate just points out that calling the place the "Pop Hall of Fame" would be more appropriate since it honors popular music and not just rock, even if attempts are made to justify some selections by calling them "early influences" or citing crossover movements, etc. A lot of Beatles tunes don't come close to any sane person's definition of "rock" ("When I'm 64", anyone?). And rock/pop takes many forms including prog-rock, folk-rock, jazz-rock, etc. Rockabilly? Doo-wop?

But that wouldn't sound as cool as "Rock 'n' Roll"...just as "Hard Rock Cafe" has more appeal than "Soft Pop Cafe." Tales of Led Zeppelin's sharks & the Go-Gos' gross behavior in service station restrooms draw bigger crowds than Pat Boone crooning to a bobby-soxer.

Spiderbite

The Adult Contemporary Easy Listening Favorites Hall Of Fame!

Finally England Dan & John Ford Coley would get the respect they deserve!

Toddarino

The Sex Pistols are a joke. They do have two decent musicians in Jones and Cook. Without McLaren no one would have ever heard of them. Based solely on their tiny body of work, they bring nothing to the table. It wasn't just the mainstream that was up in arms about them getting in.

nothingfails

True. My main problem though is that pop females (Madonna, Summer, ABBA, etc...) always draw the rockist "they're not rock!!!" ire but yet male pop stars get into the HOF without protest. It does feel like a sexist double standard why people will find a way to argue why MJ or The Bee Gees have a place in the Hall despite never being technically rock, but somehow Madonna or ABBA being in makes a mockery for not fitting into the rock sound somehow more than a three-hit r&b/gospel band like The Staple Singers (and they were inducted long before Jeff Tweedy gave Mavis Staples hipster cred).

creekdipper

I like it.

How about One-hit Wonders HOF? I nominate Ohio Express.

Edit: nevermind...found out that, in addition to "Yummy Yummy Yummy", they also had a big hit with "Chewy Chewy." Thus, they barely miss out.

CRM114

I'm not sure the Sex Pistols are in because of their music. Of course they were a joke. That was the point. A huge seismic shifting joke, however. (When I referred to "mainstream outrage" I was referring to mainstream America's outrage in 1977.)

CRM114

I don't think that's Joan Jett's problem. My feeling is that she's a cultural lightweight. No one will remember Joan Jett. Madonna? While I believe she should be in the RRHOF as a no-brainer, I understand the "rocker" argument. But the rockers need to get over it and realize "Rock and Roll" isn't just Alice Cooper and Led Zeppelin as much as they'd like it to be.

mndtrp

The name should just be changed to Music Hall of Fame, or something similar, that way people would let go of the fact that it's not really about rock any more. Whatever the intentions were when it was started.

Hokeyboy

For what it's worth I'd be completely behind supporting a Yacht Rock Hall of Fame.

Keep Jan Wenner and his gang of Nutsuckers in their own little circle jerk universe and get to the real meaty acts (Dan Hill, Christopher Cross, Dan Fogelberg, etc.)

Decker

Eddie Trunk mentioned Journey not being in. That's not a band I would normally get very worked up about, but when you think about it, their "metrics" are probably identical to Hall & Oats who got in last year. A cheesey 80's rock-pop act with lots of hits who were not so beloved by critics but underwent a bit of a retroactive cultural renaissance this century largely as a result of the prominent featuring of one of their most popular songs in a popular cultural program. Total album sales is very close for both (60 M for H&O, 75 M for Journey). I don't know how one could justify Hall & Oats being in and not Journey.

Decker

Don't forget Bread! They're so often overlooked but so influential.

Hokeyboy

And Pablo Cruise! Wait until people suddenly realize that that was the name of a band, and not an actual dude! Consternation! Uproar!

The Cow

England Dan and John Ford Coley, get 'em in now!

Hokeyboy

They're not talking 'bout moving in...

The Cow

CRM114

Absolutely true. Might as well add REO Speedwagon and a host of others.

nothingfails

oh, I wasn't meaning to single you out over Joan, just the common attitude that Madonna, ABBA, Donna ruin the HOF for not fitting into the "rock" genre when male contemporaries don't get the same sort of singling out.

I do agree with the rocker attitude though, the "if it isn't AC/DC, it's not rock" crap, I've seen these sorts argue that Pink Floyd, U2, REM, etc... aren't rock which is absolutely ridiculous just because they believe if you can't headbang to it, it's not considered rock, when hard rock is only one section of "rock" as a larger genre of music.

nothingfails

I think Live From Daryl's House has gone a long way in restoring Hall And Oates' credibility, plus hipsters like them, something they'll never do with Journey. Although in fairness, The Smiths, Cure, Replacements, Joy Division, Depeche Mode, etc... are gods in the hipster world and none of them have been inducted. Hall And Oates were like ABBA or The Bee Gees where they both ruled the pop world but also have respect from critics and general types who snub their nose on pop. Journey on the other hand were the Nickelback of the 1980s, although I would rate their music above Nickelback's, but they're a band critics always hated and carrying on with an imposter lead singer doesn't exactly endear them to those who wrote them off. Groups like Nickelback, Creed, Bon Jovi and Journey are never going to respected by critics and have very little shot of getting in.

Spiderbite

You may be joking but I love Bread. David Gates is one of my favorite love song writers. I love his solo stuff as well.


They don't want to change any lives...

creekdipper

Didn't care for a lot of them (my girlfriend...later wife...loved them, of course), but I was a sap for this song every time it came on the radio or in the car (would have love to hear Clapton cover it, especially with the solo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVtdYKVXYhI

Pretty nice live version.

Has Badfinger made the Hall (or even been nominated)? They deserve to be in if only for the fact that their struggles in the industry (quite literally) killed several of the band. RIP Pete Hamm.

Decker

If you don't tear up during "Diary" you're not even human!

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