Music Talk Discuss music in all its forms: CD, MP3, DVD-A, SACD and of course live

Album By Album: Genesis

Old 11-12-10, 02:32 PM
  #26  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Hokeyboy, let's move on to Nursery Cryme. i think you've gotten about as far as you will with Trespass. I don't want to see this one die until right after Steve Hackett quits.
cungar is offline  
Old 11-12-10, 03:09 PM
  #27  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Wait, are we already talking about Trespass? Where's the album info post?!
Supermallet is offline  
Old 11-12-10, 03:15 PM
  #28  
DVD Talk Legend
 
bunkaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago West Suburbs
Posts: 15,516
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
Wait, are we already talking about Trespass? Where's the album info post?!
Perhaps you have Alvis on ignore?

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10484664-post12.html
bunkaroo is offline  
Old 11-12-10, 03:58 PM
  #29  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,892
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

"Stagnation" is another track from Trespass I really like. It starts off slow, but really takes off in the second half with an instrumental leading into some powerful Peter Gabriel vocals.

Overall, an extremely impressive achievement especially considering all these guys were around 20 years old. I didn't hear any clunkers. The weakest track for me was "Dusk". But even that wasn't bad - it was just kind of forgettable (and fortunately was the shortest song). I don't get the negative linked reviews from the wiki page (2/5 at both AllMusic and Blender). AllMusic's review seems unfair, penalizing the band for this album not being as good as their later ones - and the reviewer had an issue with Genesis not "rocking" more. Though, not unexpectedly, Amazon user reviews overpraise a bit (4.5/5 stars). Somewhere between 3 and 4 stars out of 5 seems about right for me.
brainee is offline  
Old 11-12-10, 04:09 PM
  #30  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,030
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
Wait, are we already talking about Trespass? Where's the album info post?!
Sorry if I moved too fast. I'll wait a couple of days before I post Nursery Cryme. I just didn't think From Genesis to Revelation would warrant that much discussion.
Alvis is offline  
Old 11-12-10, 04:50 PM
  #31  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post
Perhaps you have Alvis on ignore?

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/10484664-post12.html
Weird, I totally missed that post until now. Good thing I don't have a position at this forum that requires me to read lots of posts.

I love Trespass. Such a great album. No, it doesn't hit the heights of Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound, etc., but it's got a wonderful sense of melody and a pastoral feel that give it an identity all its own. The band doesn't have the exciting chemistry they would once Collins and Hackett joined, but they acquit themselves ably. And in their live shows, The Knife was absolutely killer.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 11-13-10, 07:18 AM
  #32  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Falc04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 1,192
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Interesting story about Trespass...when Genesis was initially being put out on CD back in the 80s, this was the one album that for some odd reason, that did not get a release. I had to buy it as an import (which I still own), while all the others I could get domestically. I later found out that this album was not under the Atco/Atlantic label, but rather under MCA's group. Not sure who was relasing their music at the time Trespass came out, but it appears the band did not yet have a big-name record company behind them.

As for this album, as I stated before it is leaps above the previous album in terms of growth. I love Steve Hackett, but Anthony Phillips was going to be missed after this one.
Falc04 is offline  
Old 11-13-10, 07:57 AM
  #33  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,030
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by Falc04 View Post
Interesting story about Trespass...when Genesis was initially being put out on CD back in the 80s, this was the one album that for some odd reason, that did not get a release. I had to buy it as an import (which I still own), while all the others I could get domestically. I later found out that this album was not under the Atco/Atlantic label, but rather under MCA's group. Not sure who was relasing their music at the time Trespass came out, but it appears the band did not yet have a big-name record company behind them.

As for this album, as I stated before it is leaps above the previous album in terms of growth. I love Steve Hackett, but Anthony Phillips was going to be missed after this one.
I found an MCA pressing of this album last night while at a a used CD place. It did however, end up in the remastered box set that came out in 2008.
Alvis is offline  
Old 11-13-10, 02:13 PM
  #34  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,892
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Hey, are we to the real Genesis* yet?

*Phil Collins era

j/k
Well, Phil does join the band starting with the next album
brainee is offline  
Old 11-13-10, 02:56 PM
  #35  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by Falc04 View Post
Interesting story about Trespass...when Genesis was initially being put out on CD back in the 80s, this was the one album that for some odd reason, that did not get a release. I had to buy it as an import (which I still own), while all the others I could get domestically. I later found out that this album was not under the Atco/Atlantic label, but rather under MCA's group. Not sure who was relasing their music at the time Trespass came out, but it appears the band did not yet have a big-name record company behind them.

As for this album, as I stated before it is leaps above the previous album in terms of growth. I love Steve Hackett, but Anthony Phillips was going to be missed after this one.
I'm not so sure about the accuracy of your story. I remember having to buy The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in London in the Summer of 1986 because it was not yet released in the US. In fact I remember talking to the English record store clerk about it.
cungar is offline  
Old 11-15-10, 09:48 AM
  #36  
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

tried to work out who is the songwriting genius behind Genisis
came to the conclusion its Mike Rutherford...
did Phil Collins write any classic song ?
heavensent is offline  
Old 11-15-10, 10:13 AM
  #37  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

What do you consider a classic song? Everything up to Gabriel leaving were credited to the whole band and after that I don't see any Rutherford contributions that I would consider "classic" after he left. If anything, I'd go with Gabriel for lyrics and Banks for the musical genius of the band.
cungar is offline  
Old 11-15-10, 10:57 AM
  #38  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,536
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

I'd agree with Tony... he seems to be the "sound", or heart if you will, of the group.
reverie is offline  
Old 11-16-10, 06:15 PM
  #39  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,030
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Nursery Cryme



Released November 12, 1971

1. Musical Box
2. For Absent Friends
3. The Return of the Giant Hogweed
4. Seven Stones
5. Harold the Barrel
6. Harlequin
7. The Fountain of Salmacis

Personnel

Peter Gabriel – lead vocals, flute, bass drum, tambourine
Steve Hackett – electric guitar, 12 string guitar
Tony Banks – organ, mellotron, piano, electric piano, 12 string guitar, vocals
Mike Rutherford – bass, bass pedals, 12 string guitar, vocals
Phil Collins – drums, vocals, percussion, lead vocals (uncredited) on "For Absent Friends"

Production

Producer: John Anthony

Nursery Cryme is the first album to feature the classic five-piece line up of Peter Gabriel, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford, Phil Collins and and Steve Hackett; the latter two replacing John Mayhew and Anthony Phillips, on drums and guitar respectively, in 1970 and 1971. This lineup would remain consistent until Gabriel's departure in 1975.

Although not a success upon release in their homeland, Nursery Cryme became an unexpected hit in Italy, reaching number 4 in the LP charts[1] — spurring on Genesis' European success—with the album eventually reaching #39 in the UK charts for one week in May 1974, and the re-issue reached #68 for one week in March 1984.

The album also marked the beginning on a steady, cohesive line-up for Genesis. With a solid drummer (Collins) and lead guitarist (Hackett) on board, the band entered their classic early period, which would entail a quintet of albums: Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Genesis Live, Selling England by the Pound and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in 1974.

Like Trespass the preceding Genesis album, Nursery Cryme was also recorded at London's famous Trident Studios. Trident was one of only a handful of British studios to have 16-track equipment, which was state of the art for the time. Though not as polished in production terms as the albums that followed, Nursery Cryme was still a progression from the group's second album. The folky feel was retained on songs such as "Harlequin" and "For Absent Friends", but other tracks displayed a more aggressive and strident sound. Hackett's lead guitar playing contributed a lot to this, with strong solos contained within "The Musical Box", "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" and "The Fountain Of Salmacis".

Banks also contributed towards the more aggressive sound in various ways: for some time before Hackett's recruitment, Genesis had performed live as a four-piece, with Banks substituting for guitar by playing lead solos on his Hohner "Pianet" electric piano, played through a fuzz box. This technique can be heard on "The Musical Box" and the intro to "The Return of the Giant Hogweed". In addition, the band purchased their own Mellotron Mark II (from King Crimson).[2] Banks employed the Mk II "three violins" sound to great effect in "The Fountain Of Salmacis" and "Seven Stones", whilst the climax of "The Return of the Giant Hogweed" used fuzzed Mk. II "combined brass".

A further element in the band's growing sound was Rutherford's use of the stand-alone electronic bass pedal unit Dewtron "Mister Bassman". Even a song such as "Harold the Barrel", which used none of this new instrumentation, was possessed of a sprightly energy quite unlike anything on Trespass.

Alvis is offline  
Old 11-16-10, 09:32 PM
  #40  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,536
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

I don't know why, but I've always loved "Harold The Barrel" (and the obvious ones from here as well).
reverie is offline  
Old 11-16-10, 11:27 PM
  #41  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,892
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

It's hard to imagine how the addition of Phil Collins to anything can make it rock harder, but here you have it! Though I suppose Steve Hackett had a little to do with that as well.

With the "classic" lineup in place, Genesis really comes into their own here. Certainly you can see how the band is establishing their own identity. They maintain the strengths of Trespass - with nicely composed, atmospheric prog-rock pieces. And like Trespass, the instrumentals don't feel indulgent - they're there to serve the songs. The subject matter of the songs is certainly interesting. Bizarre, fantastical, and with a healthy dose of black humor. It's hard not to smile a little when Peter Gabriel sings from the point-of-view of a homicidal plant bent on destroying the world.

My favorites, though, are the opening and closing epics. Even without the live theatrics, the dramatics of the music really comes through. I'm sorry I never got to see this version of Genesis play live. There are some low-quality videos around, but no really good documentation. Here's a cool version of "The Musical Box" I found. The audio isn't as good as the video Alvis posted. But this is from an actual show (in 1973), and you can see Peter Gabriel go all-out with the theatrics. Check out the creepy mask at the end.


Last edited by brainee; 11-16-10 at 11:34 PM.
brainee is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 02:33 AM
  #42  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Nursery Cryme was a pivotal Genesis album. Here, for the first time, was the lineup that would define the "Gabriel" era of the band. But more than technique, it was the musical ideas that this grouping spawned that made their music so unforgettable. While "The Knife" showed signs of where Genesis was going, it wasn't until "The Musical Box" that they offered a cohesive musical piece with shifting dynamics and palpable tension. Hackett's lyrical guitar playing elevated the instrumental sections, while Collins' propulsive and precise drumming pushed the rest of the band harder. Gabriel's lyrics have become more cryptic but also more evocative, and his delivery more expressive.

The rest of the album doesn't live up to the potential of the opener, but even without hitting those heights, the progression from the last two albums is palpable. The album juxtaposes longer and shorter tracks, and in general I find the shorter tracks to be more interesting. "Harold The Barrel" is a particular standout (and due to the subject matter always inextricably linked in my mind to Simon & Garfunkel's "Save the Life of My Child"). Not the best this lineup would offer, but nonetheless, Nursery Cryme is the first true Genesis classic.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 06:48 AM
  #43  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 14,310
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Phil Collins gets slammed because of his later solo stuff, and deservedly so, but I love him as a drummer.
cdollaz is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 08:25 AM
  #44  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

I really like this album but there's a few clunkers. The Musical Box is top 5 Genesis for me (Supper's Ready, Cinema Show, Firth of Fifth and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway are the rest of my top 5). The part at the end where he sings "why don't you touch me, touch me now now now now" raises hair on my neck every time I hear it.

I also love The Fountain of Salmacis and actually like the Phil Collins version on Three Sides Live.

Harold the Barrell and Return of the Giant Hogweed are funny songs but forgettable.

To me the mark of a great Genesis song is that part where Gabriel just grabs you by the throat emotionally with his voice and the band kicks in. This happened a few times in this album.
cungar is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 08:27 AM
  #45  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by cdollaz View Post
Phil Collins gets slammed because of his later solo stuff, and deservedly so, but I love him as a drummer.
I always thought if Collins wanted to pursue a pop career he should have done it without dragging Genesis along the pop route. It sullied the name of the band. The band should have split after he released his first solo album.
cungar is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 10:39 AM
  #46  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
So, Tony and Mike should give up their share of immense fame & fortune & fan adoration so that they can be known as "former members of a cool [yet incredibly pretentious, musically] prog-rock band (with a former singer who ALSO left/quit/whatever for greener [$] pastures)"?

I'm glad we've never been in a band together. And, before you say it, I'm sure the feeling is mutual. It's obvious to me that we'd need very different motivations for performing.

I think Genesis is/was great. But only with Collins at the helm.

I like a total of just three songs by Gabriel, though I've heard dozens.

The worst possible thing you can be in rock and roll is BORING. And, if Genesis wasn't boring before Collins took the reigns, why weren't they household names before he did that?
I have no problem with you preferring the post Gabriel "Genesis". That comes down to taste.

I do however have a big problem with you saying that because Genesis weren't household names before Gabriel left that they were "boring". Being boring didn't stop America, The Starland Vocal Band, Neil Sedaka and The Carpenters etc. from being household names in the 70's.

Gabriel era Genesis is some of the most adventrous music of the 70's in my opinion. Listen to the Apocolypse in 9/8 section of Supper's Ready or climax to Cinema Show or Fly on a Windshield from the Lamb and tell me it's "boring". Just because they didn't have hits doesn't mean they were boring.
cungar is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 12:07 PM
  #47  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

I still take issue with the assertion that early Genesis were not household names because they were "boring". It had a lot more to do with their style of music not being marketable and the eccentricities of Gabriel's singing.

I'm not even a fan of any other "prog" rock band you mentioned. Genesis just happens to touch me in a way no other band of that genre and era does.

And you seem to be hung up with a rather narrow definition of what "rock and roll" is. Can't I have the same visceral reaction to an early Genesis song as you do to and AC/DC song?
cungar is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 01:26 PM
  #48  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Why would you be weirded out by someone being thrilled by an early Genesis tune? I wouldn't be weirded out by someone being thrilled by an ELP tune or a Moody Blues tune. Both bands I'm not into at all.
cungar is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 02:37 PM
  #49  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

Wow, memories of Lemmy's posts in the Avatar thread, except this time he's actually ragging on something great and looking foolish for doing so.

Peter Gabriel is my second favorite musical artist (after David Bowie) and his tenure in Genesis produced some thrilling, unforgettable, stand the test of time progressive rock. Obviously, if you don't like progressive rock, it won't be your thing, but that's no reason to belittle it. And if you are planning on belittling it, you could at least try to think of something other than boring, as Genesis' compositions were complex and challenging.

Reminds me of Amadeus, where after seeing The Marriage of Figaro, the Emperor complains "Too many notes."
Supermallet is offline  
Old 11-17-10, 04:26 PM
  #50  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,637
Re: Album By Album: Genesis

I thought this story from Rolling Stone would fit this thread. This may be why Lemmy is a Phil Collins fan

Exclusive: Phil Collins Admits Suicidal Thoughts
Collins also tells Rolling Stone that he has no desire to return to pop music




Nov 09, 2010 6:13 PM EST

In the new issue of Rolling Stone, on stands in the digital archives this Friday, Phil Collins says he believes that he may have lived past lives — and that he's contemplated suicide. The reclusive singer — who hasn't released an album of new material in nearly ten years — took writer Erik Hedegaard into his surprisingly modest home in Switzerland and explained that most of his time is now spent working on his gigantic collection of artifacts from the Alamo and raising his two young sons from his last marriage. Decades of criticism have taken their toll, and Collins says he has little desire to create more music beyond his new disc of Motown covers, Going Back. "I sometimes think I'm going to write this Phil Collins character out of the story," the singer says. "Phil Collins will just disappear or be murdered in some hotel bedroom, and people will say, 'What happened to Phil?' And the answer will be, 'He got murdered, but, yeah, anyway, let's carry on.' That kind of thing."

Genesis: A History in Photos

Other highlights from the article:

• Collins has noticed glowing, semitransparent light orbs in a series of photos he took at the Alamo. "It's paranormal energy," he explains, nothing that a psychic recently told him he fought at the fort in a previous lifetime. "I don't want to sound like a weirdo. I'm not Shirley MacLaine, but I'm prepared to believe. You've seen the pictures. You can't deny them, so therefore it's possible that I was there in another life."

• A neck injury has left him unable to hold drum sticks, sign his signature or even (at times) wipe himself in the bathroom. "I was going to stop drumming anyway," he says. "I had stopped. I don't miss it."

• Collins admits that he's had suicidal thoughts in recent years. "I wouldn't blow my head off," he says. "I'd overdose or do something that didn't hurt. But I wouldn't do that to the children. A comedian who committed suicide in the Sixties left a note saying, 'Too many things went wrong too often.' I often think about that."
cungar is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.