B5Erik

OK, Round 1 seems to be very evenly matched, but I have a feeling that Round 2 may not be.

As both Black Sabbath and Ozzy moved on to their second albums away from each other both groups (Sabbath with Dio; Ozzy with his band) became more comfortable with their new settings. Ozzy's relationship with budding guitar hero Randy Rhoads had brought him to the peak of what little musical abilities he had. Sabbath's relationship with Dio was still very strong at this point - but that would change soon.

Both Diary of a Madman and Mob Rules are considered to be Heavy Metal classics, and with good reason. While both albums were successful, Diary started the trend where Ozzy would outsell his former band by a significant margin.

So which album do you like better? Which is the, "Better," album? And why do you feel that way or believe it to be true?

covenant

There's only about 3 songs on Mob Rules I really like, so the choice is obvious: Diary.

Hokeyboy

Gotta go with DIARY here. I enjoy MOB RULES a whole lot, but quality-wise it's a noticeable step-down from H&H, whereas DIARY is just as good, maybe even BETTER, than BoO. Plus "You Can't Kill Rock And Roll" is in my Top 10 metal songs ever -- the powerhouse openers of Over The Mountain, Flying High Again, and YCKRaR is just beyond amazing.

I'd rank the four albums as such:
- Heaven & Hell
- Diary of a Madman
- Blizzard of Ozz
- Mob Rules

It'll be interesting comparing "Live Evil" and "Speak of the Devil"...

B5Erik

Matt, you're starting to scare me. Your views on these albums are very close to mine - again.

For my money Diary of a Madman is one of the greatest albums ever recorded, regardless of genre. Randy Rhoads and Bob Daisley were so locked in as a writing unit that it was scary. Ozzy's contributions - even if limited to the usual one or two vocal melodies and a line or two of lyrics for each song - were flawless as well. Everything fit together perfectly, from the songwriting to the performances to the album production (Max Norman, one of the all time great Metal producers really came of age as a producer here).

Diary just demolishes Blizzard, IMO, and Blizzard is no half-assed album. Blizzard, while flawed, is a classic album on it's own. Diary is just perfection.

Mob Rules, on the other hand, wasn't quite as good as it's predecessor. While still a great album overall, there are a handful of mere good songs on here that keep the album from reaching the artistic heights that were reached with Heaven and Hell. My picks as the strongest songs on the album are, "Turn Up the Night," "Voodoo," "The Sign of the Southern Cross," "Falling Off the Edge of the World," and the mammoth, gargantuan, monster of a title track! I consider, "Mob Rules," the song, to be one of the greatest Heavy Metal songs ever written.

But, as I noted, there are a handful of merely good songs (very good) here - "Country Girl," "Slipping Away" (near great, though), and "Over and Over." The other knock on Mob Rules is the slightly muddy production. Martin Birch DID give the album a massive sound, but the snare drum lacks snap, and the guitar sound could use just a tad more of the high mids to give it a little more crunch (and give the notes a little more distinction to be more clearly heard).

So for release number two Ozzy outdid his former band. Of course Ozzy had a LOT of help in doing it, but Diary of a Madman is a great album regardless of who did or didn't contribute - although Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake definitely deserved to receive credit for their phenomenal performances on bass & drums respectively!

The re-recording of Blizzard and, especially, Diary two decades later was just unforgivable. If there were ever an unwritten code among musicians it would have been, "Do NOT remove musicians' work from a completed album and replace it with different musicians' work and make the original version unavailable for those people who would prefer to stick with the original." Sharon broke that code. No, she OBLITERATED it. Ronnie James Dio called what she did a, "Sin," and musically and ethically speaking, he was absolutely correct.

If you don't have a copy of the original version - they're out there. And it's worth the effort and money to pick up the original version of Diary (and Blizzard).

I'll have to break ranks with you here.

1. Diary of a Madman
1A. Heaven and Hell
3. Mob Rules
4. Blizzard of Ozz

They're all great albums, though, and this was one of those cases where a split in a band (replacing a band member) resulted in TWO great bands releasing multiple classic albums.

That it will....

Supermallet

As I mentioned in the previous thread, I think Diary of a Madman was the peak of both Rhoads and Ozzy, and the results were dazzling. As Erik mentioned, the production is fantastic. Crisp but powerful, as opposed to Sabbath's more muddied and monolithic production. It really is a shame that Rhoads died so young. I have a feeling that had he continued, he would have rivaled Eddie Van Halen as the most iconic guitarist of the period.

Mob Rules isn't a bad album, but it already seems like the band is following a formula. The first half is pretty classic, the second half wanders. And as we all know, Dio's ego would result in this lineup breaking up after the tour to support the album. This was the last consistently good set of riffs Iommi ever wrote (despite some forgotten classic songs strewn about the rest of Sabbath's catalog). I'm still hoping that he can pull out some good riffs for the new Heaven and Hell album, but we'll see.

cdollaz

I think I'm one of the few who ranks Mob Rules about equally with Heaven And Hell. I love the "lesser" songs like Country Girl, Falling Off The Edge Of The World, and Slipping Away.

Mordred

Looks like I'm the only one to go with Mob Rules. It's not a perfect album, but "Sign of the Southern Cross" is so damn epic, it gives me goosebumps.

You guys will probably want to revoke my Metal membership but the Rhoads-era doesn't do a ton for me. Sure the guy was a musical genius but something about these albums doesn't just leaves me feeling bland. Honestly, I prefer the Jake E. Lee material better, particularly The Ultimate Sin which I would hands down choose as my favorite of the pre-Wylde Ozzy.

Supermallet

I only like one song on The Ultimate Sin, and that is Shot In The Dark (not surprisingly).

cdollaz

The Ultimate Sin is my 3rd least favorite Ozzy album, after No More Tears and Black Rain.

cactusoly

I would normally say Diary since its the best Ozzy album (not taking into account the controversy)

but I rediscovered Mob Rules after the reunion and there are some great songs on there beyond the obvious. "Falling off The Edge of The World" has become one of my fav Sabbath songs and I barely knew it existed before. "Country Girl" is great if you listen to the irony in the lyrics . So I'll take the east route and pick both.

covenant

One of my favorite songs ever. Add to that "I" and After all the Dead from Dehumanizer and Breaking into Heaven from the new album.

Oh, and thanks B5Eric for these great Ozzy vs. Dio threads, I'm loving them! Even if I'm not as verbose on the subject as other folks.

Jason

I'm one of the very very few who rank Mob Rules above H&H. Excellent all the way through.

Rocketdog2000

And again, Matt has just summed up my thoughts completely.

johnbook

I'm with you Mordred, Randy was a genius damn i even named my dog Randy back in the day cuz of him, but when Jake E. Lee entered the picture i found myself giving favor to Bark at the Moon and Ultimate Sin, still to this day those are my 2 favorite Ozzy albums, tho i will give the late great Randy Rhoades a shout and admit that "You can't kill Rock & Roll" is to this day still my favorite Ozzy tune, oh and for my choice of better album from the thread, it is a tough choice but i'm going with Diary of a Madman.

JeffTheAlpaca

I admit it would be cool to see Ozzy perform "Voodoo" live

You have to give Zakk Wylde props on this performance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MP8Gl_nqqc

cactusoly

Ozzy can barely perform his own songs live

JOE29

Diary of a Madman

Imprint

With the exception of "Little Dolls", Diary of a Madman is perfect.

Also, I want to clarify a point made by B5Erik about the original vs. re-recorded versions of Blizzard and Diary. I agree with you completely, but instead of the original Jet discs, I recommend the 1995 remasters that look like this:



But absolutely avoid the 2002 re-recorded and remastered discs.

JAA

I disagree. The 1995 remasters aren't bad, but a bit bright for my tastes. I think the original Jet releases (of both Blizzard and Diary) sound much closer to the original vinyl. This makes for a much more pleasant experience when cranking them!

Imprint

Yeah, I should have just made the comment that the 1995 re-masters contain the original recordings. To help those looking at used CD stores, since the 1995 versions seem to be much easier to find (around here anyway). Either way, just stay far away from the 2002 discs!