AndyCleveland

I have been a fan of Madonna's since I first heard "Secret" in middle school... I immediately ran out and got a copy of "Bedtime Stories" and everything prior to that. Now, over 10 years later, I have had some of the greatest moments of my life because of her music. I have seen the Drowned World Tour (2001), Re-Invention Tour (2003), and Confessions Tour (2006) - all numerous times in numerous cities from the front floor sections. I have met many fans in my travels and made lots of friends. And I have been very very impressed by the music and seldom let down.

Then, earlier this year, M released "4 Minutes", a bland pop track featuring mostly Justin Timberlake vocals. The album, Hard Candy, followed. Littered with a bunch of pop/"hip-hop" garbage, Hard Candy disapointed a LARGE portion of M's fanbase, at least from what I can see on the numerous fan forums. On my first listen of the album, I felt extremely let down and found very little to redeem such a shit album. The album as a whole is kind of fun and cute, but far too silly for a Madonna album, especially following such a string of amazing albums (Ray of Light, Music, American Life, and Confessions).

The same week of the album release was the US promo show (yes, she did ONE show in the US in NYC at Roseland ballroom)... she sang new songs Candy Shop, Miles Away, and Give It 2 Me... she then sang "classics" Music and Hung Up. The show was not well-received by fans (although to be fair, a majority of us viewed it from a computer screen, not from Roseland ballroom).

A couple months later, the Worldwide Sticky & Sweet tour was announced. The show was kept a secret until opening night in Cardiff. Fans didn't even know what the stage layout was, therefore buying tickets was a real gamble as the ticketmaster seating charts were generic. The show opened and seemed to get a similar reaction from the fans that the Hard Candy album got- sadness, anger, disapointment. The show is very new-album heavy, very very guitar heavy (look up the cringe-worthy "hung up" tour version on youtube), and seems to lack the artistry of her previous tours. In fact, Ray of Light is a completely recycled performance from the Confessions Tour, even using the same backdrop screens.

To make things worse, "hot ticket" holders that were promised priority access to the general admission field were let in AFTER general ticket holders at numerous locations. This is probably the venue/promoters fault- but these things wouldn't happen if madonna didn't want them to.

I didn't create this thread to bash madonna or bash the tour... I do still love Madonna and the majority of her albums. But this fan backlash that has seemed to have occured has struck me. This thread can serve as a rant/rave review section for those who attend the tour or simply a tour discussion thread. I am still excited about the tour (which I will be seeing in NJ, Toronto, Chicago, and Detroit) and I know I will have fun. I just feel that if fans are continued to expect to pay $350 + fees for top-price tickets, we should not be given poor customer service from Live Nation or a rushed, half-assed show lacking in artistic direction.

I found this Fan complaint on a Madonna forum:
Wembley ($400 "Fan Club" Seat turned out to have NO view of the main stage or video screens)


Fan review of the incident that occurded:

And here are some great photos from the show:

nothingfails

I am with you. Madonna used to be someone who could do no wrong in my eyes, but lately I've just been bored with her. Hard Candy is just a very mediocre effort by someone that the fans thought was a perfectionist. I don't know if you can say it's a sellout since Madonna's always been mainstream, but this album feels so phoned in and almost packaged with the intention of sounding like everything else. I don't hate the entire album but it's easily the first album of hers that I haven't really had any desire to listen to after the initial week or two with few exceptions (like She's Not Me and Miles Away). I know that some artists charge what they know they can get, but I think it's reprehensible and a sign that Madonna has been famous too long that she's lost touch with reality, when she continues to raise her prices when America is in a recession. Plus, it doesn't hurt that she has a few fans who are so stuck up her ass that they would choose Madonna over their own mother if it came down to it. I rolled my eyes at the Madonna-apologists who feel the need to retort "well, maybe she doesn't want to meet you either" if someone says they wouldn't want to meet her because she's known to be a bitch to her fans. What's wrong with someone knowing better that their enjoyment of her music would likely be ruined so they would rather pass up the opportunity? I've loved Madonna for 24 years but I'd rather not bother meeting her than have her be a bitch to me and I feel like I can't enjoy her music again. Prince is someone else on that wavelength, love his music and have for almost my whole life, but not someone I'd want to hang out with.

I read that article too, but I think it's more LiveNations fault than Madonna's. But I feel like those fans who paid tickets and couldn't even enjoy the show deserve full refunds. I know when you buy lower-end seats, you're not going to get the best view, but at least you should be able to get some enjoyment out of a show.

AndyCleveland

during DWT,RIT,and CT i felt that Madonna was at the peek of her live shows... but now that Stuart Price is gone, I really think his absence is felt.

About meeting madonna... it would be cool, but isnt my ultimate dream come true or anything. Seeing her shows live is/was the ultimate fan experience. Not so sure about that anymore. The "Candy Shop" opener for this tour vs the "Future Lovers" and "Beast Within/Vogue" openers of previous tours seems to be lacking... i guess i will know for sure when i catch the New Jersey show next week

covenant

Nice SG....can she play or is it just a prop?

Giles

personally I'd love to see a festival/field show of hers versus the standard stadium set up - racing up to the front of the stage is better than paying shit loads of money for nose bleed or view obstructed seats at a stadium.

love the heart sun glasses.

nothingfails

I've said it before on other boards, what I really dislike about Hard Candy is that it feels like a Timbaland "hit factory" album as opposed to his work with Bjork which actually sounded like something different. Madonna is fifty and a member of the Hall Of Fame (whether you think she deserves it or not, she's in there), she deserves more respect from a producer than some unproven 19 year old r&b bimbo. Give her material that sounds like Earth Intruders, not leftover Justin Timberlake tracks, can't you at least do that? LOL. Oh well, she isn't the first veteran to "sell out" to a hot sound in order to score a US hit (remember when Donna Summer worked with Stock/Aiken/Waterman?) and she won't be the last, but it's so disappointing for her since she'd been on such a roll and didn't need to do this album when COADF did nearly ten million worldwide, nearly two million of that in the US.

AndyCleveland

she plays it. however she doesn't play it overly well AND she uses a guitar on far too many songs during the show.

big whoppa

I was always a big fan of her early stuff but I would never pay the insane prices to see her live or even $50. There are fans who will defend her to the death and spend whatever she charges for every concert. Let's be honest. Madonna is not a very good singer. Great performer, yes. What's worse is, from all accounts, she's a major bitch and has an ego to match. I'll just continue to enjoy her old music for what it is, very good pop.

And IMHO, she looks out of touch stylewise in those pics above. Also those props on the side could easily work at a Mariah concert.

mickey65

I second all that. I haven't bought a Madonna album since 1993, and can't stand to even look at her these days...JMO

dvduser6

"I liked her early stuff, like "Borderline". But after she went off on that "Papa Don't Preach" phase, I tuned out."

AndyCleveland

not to get defensive, but you really have missed out, especially if you like her older material... 'ray of light' is the most critically acclaimed album of her career and is a must own album in my opinion (1998) (key tracks: drowned world/substitute for love, skin, swim, power of goodbye, mer girl)... 'music' is great as well and is in rolling stones' top 200 albums (key tracks: impressive instant, paradise). 'confessions on a dancefloor' is a killer pop/dance album (key tracks: jump, future lovers)

her latest album, 'hard candy' really shows little of what madonna can do and i would expect more out of a britney spears album

the other 2 albums past 1993 are 'bedtime stories' and 'american life'... both of which are great albums, but not mutual favorites among fans. still worth owning/downloading and giving a listen. also, the evita soundtrack showcases some of her finest work and she actually has a decent voice in the movie.

also, if you get a chance, watch the 'confessions tour' on dvd. it is one of the best stage shows ever, in my opinion. the new 'sticky and sweet tour' seems to be such a mess because it is so rushed.

mickey65

Just for some reason, I don't like her anymore. I used to be a BIG fan of hers from the early 80's up until the early 90's. The direction her music went just turned me off. "Music" is okay - altho I don't own the album since I can't stand "hip-hop" music. I bought the "Ray of Light" album way back, gave it a listen, and then sold it on eBay - I just didn't like it.

Her first album is my favorite - along with "Get into the Groove", and some of the other stuff after that.

I even tried to watch "Truth or Dare" a few months back and turned it off after 30 minutes. I had even seen this movie at the theater when it came out. But seeing it again 16 years later, I just couldn't stand seeing her in it.

She's just a big phony to me now.

Sorry to all the fans...JMO.

AndyCleveland

i totally can see where you're coming from and can appreciate it.

she certainly has not done very much to acknowledge her fans. but maybe she thinks that is part of her appeal (it may be). but this current direction she has taken really has hit a sour note with MANY long time fans.

nothingfails

I don't like hip hop either, but Madonna didn't really go hip hop until this album. For the most part, Music was a watered down poppier Ray Of Light. Hard Candy is really the first bad album she's recorded IMO.

I agree about Madonna as a person not being anywhere as cool as she once was. I think a lot of younger people who only know her as that lady with the British accent who is into Kaballah really missed out, because her personality was half of the appeal in the 80's and early 90's IMO.

madcougar

The original posters comments that they went out to buy Bedtime Stories in middle school made me laugh. I remember when Madonna debuted with her first album, Madonna when I was in middle school, in 1983!

AndyCleveland

i was born in 83. first heard "secret" from bedtime stories in 6th grade and never looked back.

i agree about hard candy being the first bad album she's recorded... annoying phrases like "we only got 4 minutes to save the world!" and "see my booty get down like... UH!" will never be erased. she really needs to do something amazing next time around.

on a good note, i LOVE the 30 second clip i heard of the Sticky and Sweet tour Like A Prayer remix... trying not to play the whole thing!!

nothingfails

see, I feel so lucky for having older siblings. I was born in 79 so I'm not that much older than you. But I have a sister who is 16 years older than me, so I heard Holiday and Borderline from her back in 83/84, and by the time I heard Material Girl, I knew I loved her.

big whoppa

Yes, to me, she's never seemed grateful to her fans, the fans that have made her rich and popular. I don't want to seem like this is a Madonna vs Mariah Carey thing (I'm not interested in diva battles) but at least MC always thanks her fans.

nothingfails

yea, Mariah has always been easy to bash because of her obsession with chart positions, but I do think she likes her fans much more than Madonna does. Same with Janet Jackson, who even set aside a phone line before she went on tour to have fans call and leave messages on what songs they want to hear, and she ended up calling back dozens of the fans who called her number. It's good to treat your fans like they're your friends IMO.

AndyCleveland

i agree with you completely. Im not really a mariah fan any longer (though I love her 90's stuff up to butterfly) and i love janet but her last few albums have sucked. but they are far more vocally appreciative of their fans. go to a madonna show and you can guarantee to be called a mother fucker and flipped off at least twice by M. i think secretly she loves her fans though.

i saw celine dion last night in cleveland and she is SO appreciative of her fans. I have never seen any artist or celeb be so kind and compassionate about the love of her fans. She paused the show twice to give hugs to some of her fans in the audience that were holding out flowers for her and crying. she also gave a long genuine talk about how she appreciated all the support and love. you could tell she really meant it and i thought it was pretty cool. it still wasnt nearly as fun as a madonna show, though ;-)

wago70

I just got back the USA from seeing Madonna in Rome, London and Paris. Let me just say that Madonna was glowing all those nights and she sounded GREAT.
As for a "$400 Fanclub" seat, there really is no such thing (except for the $650 Candy Shop packages who were not placed in a position as featured in that photo). The Top Price tickets are, indeed, seated and were $280 per person (the pitch is all standing and, surprisingly, the standing area in FRONT of the stage were $150 per person). The photo in the first post are indeed restricted-view seating and the Ticketmaster site stated that. Those were the final seats released to the public a few weeks before the shows.
For all the shows I had the front pitch or "Gold Circle" tickets which cost total about 1 floor seat for a USA show. I do know that those huge "M"'s on the sides will not be featured at USA arena shows. Madonna's shows have always had good sight lines and sometimes the best seats were those next to the stage. Stadiums, however, prove to have a problem that indoor arenas do not - seeing Madonna without her looking like a dot on the stage. Hence, Madonna spends a majority of the concert on a circular, smaller stage toward the center of the floor.
I happen to the LOVE Hard Candy and had hoped a few more tunes had been included. I found the show fun, light hearted and zipped along at a furious pace. There was only one ballad and she nailed it perfectly. Her older songs were beefed up (but I prefer Hung Up NOT a guitar rocker version!)
There was only one "filler" moment where Madonna sat down on the center platform while a gypsy group performed "Doli, Doli" complete with exotic dancer and her veils. Madonna kept it interesting and much more different than I've seen her perform (except RAY OF LIGHT, which as stated earlier, a near replica of a performance we have seen on her Confessions Tour. The music was different, however.
Madonna DID NOT lipsynch. Even VOGUE, a furious number set to the "march" of 4 Minutes, was entirely live.
Like I said, I thought she sounded great. Of the stadiums I was in, Wembley seemed to have acoustic problems. The speakers sounded "blown" and crackly. Rome and Paris - as perfect as THX.
I saw 3 performances from the sides where I did miss the back screens on the mainstage but Madonna was never out of sight. Seeing the show full-on frontal view is preferred however.
As for Live Nation organization, I had the Hot Ticket for Rome which guaranteed entry into the front Gold Circle (without having to spend a night in line) but the staff in Rome didn't know a damn thing about the packages or where we were to line up. They either don't follow procedure and weren't briefed (which I doubt). Lazy.
Wembley, on the other hand, was fully professionally staffed and they were helpful. The same for the fun, friendly staff at Paris' Stade de France who seemed well versed in English for us non-French speakers.
Overall, a fun concert - if you like the new album you'll love it. If you want to hear the old songs as they were on the albums, look elsewhere. Madonna has to keep it interesting if she is to tour this maniacally until the end of December. She's pretty much doing the music as it suits her which is fine. The songs are still cool. Madonna is under much pressure to deliver more than other artists. Some of her most hardcore fans are the most unforgiving if they feel short shifted. Sadly, their opinions also influencing the narcisism of those who haven't seen the show and those who hate Madonna with a passion.
I feel Live Nation has many bugs to get rid off before they start offering tiered ticket packages because some venues are so disorganized. Rome's stadium had no clue as to what VIP vs. Hot Ticket or a Gold Circle vs. Normal pitch ticket on my end. Somehow, 500 Hot Ticket fans got in to the very front, but on a hot day like that, I was glad I got there when I did and stood close enough to the stage to see Madonna close but not pressed against the barrier with hundreds of sweaty bodies pressed behind me.
I expect the opposite for the indoor USA shows. In fact, I expect lots of sitting since those could afford the highest price tickets are most likely not the most active concert goers.
We'll see and I'm looking forward to it.

ChristopherS

There is no fan backlash. There is nothing she's done since the start of the internet that hasn't had a terrible reaction.

There seems to be honest complaints about the Wembly show, but I was not there and it's not my drama. Hopefully people who could not see or hear will be compensated, because that's a waste of an evening. I know people who waited in line for her autograph, and she couldn't finish signing for everyone. People who complained about that got a copy of her $350 X-static Process book. Pretty good way to have made up for it, I think.

I don't get the fan appreciation stuff. She's thanked her fans in most of her major award speeches (which is always forgotten). She's never been an outwardly emotional person. On the other hand I can see Celine Dion hugging people in the crowd because she's 'quirky' like that. She would probably do it in her every day life if she had become a housewife. Is this sort of behavior (calling your fans, hugging them, mentioning them as much as you can) expected because they are women? I don't hear it about men, except once in a while in regard to Michael Jackson's lunatic behavior. I think with women people have to console themselves that they are not a 'stuck up bitch', but if you think Madonna is going to go out of her way to disprove that...
Janet may call fans and ask what they want in her show or whatever she was doing, but in the end she put on the exact same show she always does, so what was the point of that? To get her incredibly shrinking fan base excited, I'm sure. I don't know how it can be seen as anything else, since these people don't know their fans as individuals. Am I too cynical? I'd rather Madonna put on a good show and not call me for my opinion if I had to chose between the two.

ChristopherS

Have you seen her at US indoor shows before? No one sits at the NYC shows and I doubt they will start this tour.
Isn't it amazing to read the constant moaning of fans on the web only to go to a show and see an arena or stadium full of people who won't even sit for a ballad? Something's a little off! Glad you enjoyed your shows.

nothingfails

I disagree. On "The Other Shore", the board is pretty much agreed in disapproval at Madonna's current status. I know on MadonnaNation, there are a lot of "Madonna is god and can do no wrong" types, but I think to the non-loon fans, this album is a giant turd and stain on what was a great track record. Hard Candy is also sluggishly selling compared to COADF. I know sales are down, but her dropoff is as bad as Mariah's, which shows that the general public doesn't like this album nearly as much.

have you followed any info on Janet's latest tour? You couldn't possibly be more wrong. This tour she's actually performing pre-Control material and 90's hits that she hasn't performed since they were current. I know you hate all other major female artists, but at least read up before making a comment.

ChristopherS

I watched the clips on youtube and read the reviews. The only thing she is doing that's not her usual tour antics is the medly of songs off the early flop albums she previously ignored. That's OK, but Madonna does Ray Of Light similar to last tour and people are ready to jump out windows. But the real story is in the ticket sales (like, as you say, it is in Hard Candy's sales) where Madonna is set to break her own all-time record and Janet is just bearly putting a respectable US tour together