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-   -   question about Keith Moon and double bass drumming? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/music-talk/539167-question-about-keith-moon-double-bass-drumming.html)

Rypro 525 09-06-08 10:40 PM

question about Keith Moon and double bass drumming?
 
Alright, I'm watching a show on pbs the who live from kilburn 1977, and for some reason, just noticed he used 2 bass drums, which i know that alot of heavy metal bands use them, since the type of music kind of requires them. I was wondering essentially if there are particular who songs where its prevelent, cause when listening to the albums i don't really hear it.

damn, i might have to get this dvd, as it has most of the popular who songs with all the original members.

dick_grayson 09-07-08 12:21 AM

a looked in an old issue of Modern Drummer I had that did a feature on Moon. The transcribed parts of examples of his style only had one bass drum. As far as I know, he played both bass drums as a single just mixing a left or right in. He didn't do double bass as far as RLRLRLRLRL or anything like that, that I'm aware of. It also was probably more for show than for purpose. His rack toms on one of his hits were all the same size. Maybe they were tuned differently, but who knows.....

I know that Bonham briefly used a 2 bass set up, but the second was mostly for show.

As far as which drummer started the RLRLRLRLRL pattern of 32 notes or whatever was probably Mickey Dee of Motorhead on Overkill. I think Lars mentions that in some book.

Rypro 525 09-07-08 12:31 AM

I've seen a bunch of the big 70's bands use them. It could also be for the big mini drum solo at the end of a song, sometimes doin a little double bass.

B5Erik 09-07-08 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by dick_grayson (Post 8922927)
a looked in an old issue of Modern Drummer I had that did a feature on Moon. The transcribed parts of examples of his style only had one bass drum. As far as I know, he played both bass drums as a single just mixing a left or right in. He didn't do double bass as far as RLRLRLRLRL or anything like that, that I'm aware of. It also was probably more for show than for purpose. His rack toms on one of his hits were all the same size. Maybe they were tuned differently, but who knows.....

I know that Bonham briefly used a 2 bass set up, but the second was mostly for show.

As far as which drummer started the RLRLRLRLRL pattern of 32 notes or whatever was probably Mickey Dee of Motorhead on Overkill. I think Lars mentions that in some book.

Mickey Dee wasn't in Motorhead at the time. It was Phil "Philthy Animal" Taylor. Around the same time Les Binks of Judas Priest was doing the same thing.

But the first guy I know of to do the modern double bass drumming in a song was Ian Paice of Deep Purple on the song "Fireball," title track from their 1971 album.
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dick_grayson 09-07-08 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by B5Erik (Post 8923312)
Mickey Dee wasn't in Motorhead at the time. It was Phil "Philthy Animal" Taylor. Around the same time Les Binks of Judas Priest was doing the same thing.

But the first guy I know of to do the modern double bass drumming in a song was Ian Paice of Deep Purple on the song "Fireball," title track from their 1971 album.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aZDIfHdaUxg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aZDIfHdaUxg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

yeah, Phil Taylor. oops.

thanks for the link. I'll have to check it out. Never been a big Deep Purple fan for some reason (except for Highway Star).

I think it has to do with how much I can't stand that "Smoke on the Water" song. But that's just me.

Rypro 525 09-07-08 02:17 PM

also was listening to 'sunshine of your love' by cream, and there is sort of the rlrlrl double bass at the end.

kmh29 01-26-09 04:38 PM

Re: question about Keith Moon and double bass drumming?
 
Keith Moon used an extremely unorthodox style of playing and this is displayed on his use of 2 bass drums. He did use them, but in less obvious ways than what a listener readily identifies as the R-L-R-L pattern. Moon simply didn't (or couldn't) adhere to any rigid structure such as that. He instead used one bass drum to continually pound out 8th notes and the other to accent certain fills and patterns. The result is a type of stuttered "thud-dud" of the 2 drums that usually came in to accent the ones, and which attained a unique galloping effect when used in succession, and very opposed to the steady R-L. The studio usually had the effect of dulling Moon's more extreme antics on the drums, hence the prevalent use of the hi-hat which Moon didn't EVEN USE when playing live during the 68-72 years, when he was arguably at the peak of his powers. A must listen to hear what I'm talking about- "Live at Leeds". Standout track: "Shakin' All Over". Listen to right before the instrumental break in the middle of the song where Moon builds up an avalance of double bass rumbling, complimented by double strokes on the snare drum with the left hand creating a quadurplet with the bass drums, while the right hand hits the cymbals back and forth. "Whos's Next" also has "Bargain" where the instrumental section that closes out the song again shows the same use of the bass drums. Mind you, he used this technique quite often live, but not as much in the studio. You're not gonna see much of it (if any) in "Kilburn '77" because Moon was at his lethargic worst. I mean, the guy was a shadow of the 1970 Moon.

sauce07 01-26-09 04:58 PM

Re: question about Keith Moon and double bass drumming?
 
I've never tried to understand what makes Keith Moon so good, I just sit in awe.

bunkaroo 01-26-09 05:16 PM

Re: question about Keith Moon and double bass drumming?
 
Nice first post kmh! Good info.

K&AJones 01-26-09 07:21 PM

Re: question about Keith Moon and double bass drumming?
 
I'm not a drummer or musician but was lucky enough to catch "all" the original members live. It was said Moon never practiced. I watched a special on the Who and cannot remember the drummer who commented on Moon but even he was shaking his head over Moon's playing style. He basically said,"you can't practice playing that way".

I think the drummer is the same one who played with Don Henley on his solo tour, a good one at that.


Kenny J


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