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The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

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The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Old 11-09-21, 03:47 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Back in the day, I found the debut Bathory and The Return on vinyl in the $5 bargain bins. It was a complete "blind buy" based purely on the goat's head on the front cover and the "satanic" sounding song titles.

Prior to that time, I don't remember hearing their music. Though in hindsight, I might have heard the song "Total Destruction" on a metal radio show on a college radio station, but didn't know who the band was.

A few months later on one of my yearly trips to Toronto, I found the banzai vinyl versions of The Return and debut albums in the $2 bins at some used record stores. I figured it was low risk at $2 a pop for another vinyl copy.
Old 11-09-21, 03:53 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Man, those were the days. I stupidly sold my Bathory vinyl years ago and now they're way to expensive to rebuy, and all recent releases of those first three albums are completely botched on vinyl and CD, and whomever currently owns the rights (Quorthon's sister?) doesn't give a shit to fix them or to allow another label to license these and give them the releases they deserve. I ended getting CD boots of the first three, ripped from the original vinyl pressings, that will have to do for now, they sound as good as these likely ever will. I bought the third one back in the day due to some good magazine reviews, the first two were absolutely savaged in the press if I recall. But that usually happens with a new kind of music that's way ahead of it's time (Hellhammer's Apocalyptic Raids and Death's Scream Bloody Gore were also very negatively reviewed back then, outside of in some fanzine reviews).
Old 11-09-21, 03:54 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Many years later when I first came across The Return on cd, it sounded like the entire album was re-mixed. Either that, or the original vinyl versions had really horrible mastering.
Old 11-09-21, 03:56 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy
Many years later when I first came across The Return on cd, it sounded like the entire album was re-mixed. Either that, or the original vinyl versions had really horrible mastering.
The original vinyl of The Return will never sound great, but it still sounds way better than later pressings, somehow the master got really messed up and no one gives a shit to fix it (if it even can be fixed).
Old 11-09-21, 04:04 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock
I like Blood Fire Death a bit better (had the Under One Flag pressing of that one) but it's really close for me as to which one is the best Bathory album.
I picked up the Under One Flag version of Blood Fire Death too at the time, but I found I never really got into it at all. I didn't buy any further Bathory albums after that.
Old 11-09-21, 04:18 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

The cd versions of the first three Bathory albums I picked up back in the 1990s, were ones which appeared to be from Germany.

IIRC, the cd version of Blood Fire Death was released by Kraze Records in america sometime in the early 1990s. The same label which relased Venom's "Prime Evil" cd in america. (These were more $2 dump bin finds sometime in the late 1990s).
Old 11-10-21, 09:17 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Blood Fire Death was the album where Quorthon started to veer into viking metal (yet another metal genre he helped create) which I like as well, so I was fully onboard with that one. I've heard that the Kraze CD sounds atrocious, most people who've heard it say to avoid it.
There's a dude in Europe that is currently working on a book about Bathory, I'm really looking forward to reading it.
Old 11-10-21, 07:14 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock
There's a dude in Europe that is currently working on a book about Bathory, I'm really looking forward to reading it.
Kraze Records was always a shady operation. Apparently the guys who ran Kraze, were allegedly the same guys who ran the old Maze/Cobra Records from Toronto in the mid-1980s.

In terms of a Quorthon biography type book, I would be quite surprised if there's anything really earthshakingly new that would get attention. It would likely require tracking down his family and/or old school friends, seeing whether they are willing to talk. If nobody is willing to talk, then such a book would likely be a compilation of already existing information re-written in the form of a "story".

Many years ago there was a semi-autobiographic article of Quorthon where he went into some details how the first several bathory records were written/recorded at "heavenshore" (some guy's studio in a garage). A worthwhile "book" about quorthon, would have to have more and better insider information than that old autobiography article.
Old 11-11-21, 11:11 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock
Back in the pre-internet days, Quorthon and Bathory were complete mysteries, no one new much about who they were, and they never played live as far as I'm aware. But that mystery just added to the whole thing.
Nowadays this type of mystique / mysteriousness would be almost impossible to maintain over very long periods of time, whether online or offline.

One would literally have to be living like the "unabomber" or completely "off the grid", to sustain that type of mystique / mysteriousness of the pre-internet era. For example, eventually q-anon, satoshi nakamoto, etc ... and other mysterous online characters will likely be completely unmasked.
Old 11-11-21, 11:17 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock
Man, those were the days. I stupidly sold my Bathory vinyl years ago and now they're way to expensive to rebuy ...
(If you don't mind me asking).

Why did you do a vinyl purge at the time ?
Old 11-11-21, 11:35 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy

In terms of a Quorthon biography type book, I would be quite surprised if there's anything really earthshakingly new that would get attention. It would likely require tracking down his family and/or old school friends, seeing whether they are willing to talk. If nobody is willing to talk, then such a book would likely be a compilation of already existing information re-written in the form of a "story".

Many years ago there was a semi-autobiographic article of Quorthon where he went into some details how the first several bathory records were written/recorded at "heavenshore" (some guy's studio in a garage). A worthwhile "book" about quorthon, would have to have more and better insider information than that old autobiography article.
The guy working on the book has been giving updates on a metal forum I visit, and apparently he has interviewed a lot of people who were involved and has been doing a ton of research. I'm being cautiously optimistic that it will be the most in depth info we've ever had on Bathory/Quorthon.

Originally Posted by morriscroy
(If you don't mind me asking).

Why did you do a vinyl purge at the time ?
Don't mind at all. When I started selling on ebay around 1999/2000 I was happy to unload a bunch of records that I thought of as "worthless" at the time. I didn't imagine ever getting a turntable again or that vinyl would ever come back. Boy was I wrong, as a collector I should have known better, ugh!
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Old 11-11-21, 11:56 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock
Don't mind at all. When I started selling on ebay around 1999/2000 I was happy to unload a bunch of records that I thought of as "worthless" at the time. I didn't imagine ever getting a turntable again or that vinyl would ever come back. Boy was I wrong, as a collector I should have known better, ugh!
The only reason I still have most of my old vinyl collection, was largely due to pure sheer laziness over the past 30+ years on my part. When I realized used record stores back in the early 1990s were only taking records for a penny per disc, it wasn't even worth driving to such used record stores anymore. So my old vinyl collection ending up collecting dust in milk crates for 25+ years in a basement.

When I finally took them out again, I had to vacuum up the thick layers of dust covering the milk crates filled with vinyl.
Old 11-11-21, 03:11 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Heh, I wish I was too lazy to sell my vinyl and just left them in crates. In the late 90's I was thrilled to see that I could actually sell some of my vinyl on ebay for $20-40 a pop (including my Bathory vinyl). Now they would be worth at least ten times that. (thank god I didn't have a "Yellow Goat" or that would be long gone as well)
Old 11-11-21, 03:35 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock
Heh, I wish I was too lazy to sell my vinyl and just left them in crates. In the late 90's I was thrilled to see that I could actually sell some of my vinyl on ebay for $20-40 a pop (including my Bathory vinyl). Now they would be worth at least ten times that. (thank god I didn't have a "Yellow Goat" or that would be long gone as well)
I have never seen the yellow/gold version. Only ever seen the generic white goat's head version, which seems to be the common one worldwide.

I don't think I ever had any valuable/rare vinyl. The only one I can think of offhand maybe, is perhaps an old vinyl pressing of Exorcist "Nightmare Theater" which spiked up in price for almost two decades, until the official cd version was released a few years ago (by high roller records).
Old 11-11-21, 09:02 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

I don't recall seeing the yellow version either, probably for the best. (I think it was only the very first European/US pressings) I've never had any vinyl that was very valuable, well except for the Metallica Master of Puppets boxset that now goes for well over a thousand bucks (I paid around $150 at the most, should have bought an extra and left it sealed, who knew!)
Old 11-12-21, 10:37 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy
Nowadays this type of mystique / mysteriousness would be almost impossible to maintain over very long periods of time, whether online or offline.

One would literally have to be living like the "unabomber" or completely "off the grid", to sustain that type of mystique / mysteriousness of the pre-internet era. For example, eventually q-anon, satoshi nakamoto, etc ... and other mysterous online characters will likely be completely unmasked.
I think Deathspell Omega's members are still mostly unconfirmed.
Old 11-12-21, 10:50 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Going back further in time, bands like Mekong Delta, Burjeria, etc ... tried pulling off the same "anonymity in plain sight" type stunt.

A lot harder to hide in plain sight when they're playing live concerts. In the case of Bathory not playing any purported live concerts/gigs, it was easier to invoke a cloak of plausible deniability + anonymity.
Old 11-12-21, 04:14 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by mndtrp
I think Deathspell Omega's members are still mostly unconfirmed.
Except for the vocalist.
Old 11-12-21, 05:23 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Ghost frontman Tobias Forge managed to kind of pull it off for a number of years, although there were always rumors (later proven correct) that Papa Emeritus was the dude from Repugnant and Subvision (the latter band is not metal at all, but their album "So Far So Noir" is actually a pretty darn good alt rock LP)
Old 11-13-21, 09:36 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy
Kraze Records was always a shady operation. Apparently the guys who ran Kraze, were allegedly the same guys who ran the old Maze/Cobra Records from Toronto in the mid-1980s.
Found an old interview transcript with a Don Girovasi who (allegedly) worked at Combat Records during the mid-late 1980s heydays, and later at Maze/Kraze Records (likely during 1990-1991).

https://lesliesmetal-page.blogspot.c...h-don.html?m=1
https://www.loudersound.com/features...tal-to-america

The passage in this above interview alluding to Maze/Kraze being a shady and/or poorly run operation is:


When and why did you leave the label exactly? Did you never think about to form an own label? What did you do after you left Combat and what do you do these days?

I left because I got a HUGE opportunity to work for a producer who was starting his own label. The money he offered was three times what I was making at the time. Unfortunately, the label never happened. I worked for the label that released the first Biohazard album, but the office was VERY far from my house. A good portion of my salary went to transportation expenses. My paychecks bounced two weeks in a row, and before I could quit, I got laid off because there was no money to be had. This was in September, and the owner said he wanted me to come back in January. I never spoke to the guy again. The label collapsed only a few months later.
I loved the idea of forming my own label, but I knew I’d never be able to pull it off, even if I had the money. Thrash metal was dying at the time, and I didn’t think that „grunge” was the „next big thing.” Mother Love Bone was supposed to be The Future of Metal, but I absolutely HATED that album. I didn’t hear Nirvana until about a month after „Smells Like Teen Spirit” was a massive hit. I STILL can’t figure out why Pearl Jam are so huge.




The first Biohazard album was released by Maze/Kraze Records in 1990.

https://www.discogs.com/label/38861-...sort_order=asc
https://www.discogs.com/label/85809-...sort_order=asc

https://www.discogs.com/master/19902...zard-Biohazard

Last edited by morriscroy; 11-13-21 at 09:42 AM.
Old 11-13-21, 04:52 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

That interview with Don Girovasi really takes me back, but it's kind of depressing with that exec bullying the promo girl, and John Connelly wanting NA signed to a major label so he could afford groceries.

I find a lot of similarities between his and my tastes (though I loved Mother Love Bone), and we're both into symphonic metal now.

I agree with him on Exodus. They're one of the bands that you expect to go big time, but never quite made it to the top of the mountain. They were always that band Kirk Hammet used to be in. I sometimes wonder if they wouldn't have done better if they went straight from "Bonded by Blood" to "Fabulous Disaster," and released "Pleasures of the Flesh" as an EP to introduce the new singer like Anthrax did with "Armed and Dangerous." Or if they hadn't give Baloff the boot and replaced him with a guy who sounded like they pulled from an AC/DC tribute band...

And, yeah, "Impact is Imminent" was a big dud. Very corporate thrash, which was already a genre that had peaked and was on a decline.

I also think they were hurt by shitty album covers, which, outside of "Pleasures of the Flesh," were all band photos. You look at stuff like "Spreading the Disease," "Among the Living," "Ride the Lightning," "Master of Puppets," "Peace Sells," "Rust in Peace," "Hell Awaits," "Reign in Blood," and "South of Heaven" that had these really great painted covers, and then Exodus had a band photo on "Pleasures of the Flesh," the band watching tv on "Fabulous Disaster," and a photo of the band in a car on "Impact is Imminent."
Old 11-13-21, 09:38 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I find a lot of similarities between his and my tastes (though I loved Mother Love Bone), and we're both into symphonic metal now.
I have somewhat highly conflicted / mixed feelings about symphonic metal.

On and off for over two decades, I was listening to classical music largely as a way of pushing away metal/punk rock music out of my life. I still have a severe "brain damaged" mindset that symphony type music should not be mixed with rock + distored guitars, etc ... Basically the mindset of a pedantic "classical music snob / purist".


Back in the day the closest to anything "symphonic" metal sounding I was listening to, was maybe stuff like Savatage (ie. Dungeons, Sirens, Mountain King, Gutter Ballet, etc ...) and later Dream Theater to a lesser extent (ie. up to "Train of Thought").

I've always found it difficult to listen to symphonic rock or metal type stuff, especially when it sounds too much like a modern day "Richard Wagner" or other generic "operas".
Old 11-13-21, 10:32 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Also during those same time periods, I was listening to Yngwie Malmsteen quite a lot. (I use to try transcribing various yngwie guitar riffs and some solo segments).

By the time symphonic / gothic metal type stuff became more common in the late-1990s and into the 2000s decade, it seemed like a huge disappointment when the guitar was taking a back seat and not very interesting anymore to me. The vocals (and/or keyboards) seemed to have became the central priority emphasis, such as stuff like Evanescence,
Old 11-14-21, 08:56 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock
Practically every black metal musician worships at the throne of Quorthon (not Satan ) his influence on the development of extreme metal is huge.

I can see how bathory/quorthon was a huge influence on black metal type stuff. Primarily the vocal style, and maybe some of the later non-satanic lyrical themes (ie. vikings, scandinavian mythology, pagan, etc ...). The satanic stuff was already a boring well trodden garden variety path, for many years prior to blood fire death.



Originally Posted by morriscroy
I don't think I ever had any valuable/rare vinyl. The only one I can think of offhand maybe, is perhaps an old vinyl pressing of Exorcist "Nightmare Theater" which spiked up in price for almost two decades, until the official cd version was released a few years ago (by high roller records).

What I never quite understood, was how that Exorcist "Nightmare Theater" album became popular in some black metal circles. Back in the day, it was not widely known that Exorcist was a "metalploitation" type fake band consisting of the guys from the proto power/progressive metal band Virgin Steele.

If I had to guess, it was likely the vocal styles on the first three bathory albums, Exorcist "Nightmare Theater", and maybe Sodom "In The Sign of Evil" which were huge influences on later black metal type stuff.
Old 11-15-21, 11:42 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy
I have somewhat highly conflicted / mixed feelings about symphonic metal.

On and off for over two decades, I was listening to classical music largely as a way of pushing away metal/punk rock music out of my life. I still have a severe "brain damaged" mindset that symphony type music should not be mixed with rock + distored guitars, etc ... Basically the mindset of a pedantic "classical music snob / purist".


Back in the day the closest to anything "symphonic" metal sounding I was listening to, was maybe stuff like Savatage (ie. Dungeons, Sirens, Mountain King, Gutter Ballet, etc ...) and later Dream Theater to a lesser extent (ie. up to "Train of Thought").

I've always found it difficult to listen to symphonic rock or metal type stuff, especially when it sounds too much like a modern day "Richard Wagner" or other generic "operas".
I prefer symphonic metal without the operatic vocals. Things like Mechina, although they incorporate a more industrial metal sound with the orchestration. Something I also like about that band, is they put out instrumental and orchestral versions of their albums. I wish more metal bands would put out instrumental versions of their albums.



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