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The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

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The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Old 11-21-20, 12:37 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

(Thinking about it more).

This type of "fast listening" through many albums, was probably the same thing which happened at record companies back in the day.

Even after throwing out all the unsolicited demo tapes/recordings, I wouldn't be surprised if the record company a&r person/executive ended up only listening to the first minute or two of each solicited demo tape/recording they had to go through every day. If nothing caught their attention after that first minute or so from a particular tape, it went straight to the garbage can and they moved on to the next tape.

Last edited by morriscroy; 11-21-20 at 12:43 PM.
Old 11-21-20, 12:52 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
(Thinking about it more).

This type of "fast listening" through many albums, was probably the same thing which happened at record companies back in the day.

Even after throwing out all the unsolicited demo tapes/recordings, I wouldn't be surprised if the record company a&r person/executive ended up only listening to the first minute or two of each solicited demo tape/recording they had to go through every day. If nothing caught their attention after that first minute or so from a particular tape, it went straight to the garbage can and they moved on to the next tape.
Based on some of the other bands you’ve listed in the thread, you might enjoy Eternal Champions sophomore album that was just released (#2 on the list)
Old 11-21-20, 12:57 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock View Post
I often have to do this as well, there are just way too many new metal albums coming out, and it's impossible to give anywhere close to all of them a decent listen, I just can't keep up. You have to filter things out somehow, so I do what you do and unless something immediately grabs me, or at least interests me enough where I think there is potential and warrants a closer listen, I move on.
Back in the day, it was the A&R folks at the record company which did all that filtering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artists_and_repertoire

At a smaller indie record company, it was likely the owner who did all this filtering. For example, Brian Slagal was likely the guy who made all the final release decisions on Metal Blade releases. Especially if he was also the guy who was paying all the costs out of his own pocket.

Ever since the internet (or napster) which eventually cut out the A&R middleman filter, music selection today essentially resembles the desks of record company executives with hundreds of new demo tapes/albums coming in through the mail.
Old 11-21-20, 12:59 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by beavis69 View Post
Based on some of the other bands you’ve listed in the thread, you might enjoy Eternal Champions sophomore album that was just released (#2 on the list)
I didn't listen to #2 (yet).

I started at #40 and went backwards down the list, until around #20 when I gave up.
Old 11-21-20, 02:29 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
I didn't listen to #2 (yet).
I just listened through this Eternal Champions album, and also another one which popped up on youtube from 2016.

It sounds ok, but is something that I likely wouldn't listen to again anytime soon. Once was enough.


Back in the day whenever I bought new records, many frequently ended up only being listened to once or twice.
Old 11-21-20, 04:59 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
Back in the day, it was the A&R folks at the record company which did all that filtering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artists_and_repertoire

At a smaller indie record company, it was likely the owner who did all this filtering. For example, Brian Slagal was likely the guy who made all the final release decisions on Metal Blade releases. Especially if he was also the guy who was paying all the costs out of his own pocket.

Ever since the internet (or napster) which eventually cut out the A&R middleman filter, music selection today essentially resembles the desks of record company executives with hundreds of new demo tapes/albums coming in through the mail.
I never thought of it that way, but that seems very true, we are doing the work that A&R people used to do for us. Now it's all unfiltered, and considering how easy and inexpensive it is to record an album these days compared to years ago, there is a lot to filter through.

I read this on another forum regarding the crazy amount of releases we see nowadays:

...the amount of metal being released each year is pretty flabbergasting. Our database (Metal Archives) shows 7,214 full-lengths for 2020. Sure, a lot of those are hyper-obscure, but Rate Your Music lists 965 metal releases this year that have at least 30 user ratings each. So the odds of anyone having the same list or any particular album are pretty low.
That's a huge number of albums, I can see how individual "best of" lists could be completely different from each other. Other than releases from established bands, metal fans could be listening to completely different albums that were released this year, there is just too many to wrap your head around. It would be impossible for anyone to listen to a decent percent of all of these. Just based on the 965 figure, you would have to listen to almost three different new albums every single day of the year to be able to get even a taste of all of 2020's metal releases. And if you look at the 7214 release figure, forget it, you would have to listen to nearly 20 new albums every day for the whole year.
Old 11-25-20, 06:31 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by beavis69 View Post
Decibel released their top 40 list of 2020 ahead of publishing it in the Jan issue (of you want to avoid spoilers)

https://www.decibelmagazine.com/2020...bums-of-2020/#

Not a bad selection of albums, surprised about I few that I thought would make it. Although you can’t tell ever from anyone’s list what they DIDN’T listen to (rather than what they didn’t like).
^
This 100%

Also so many lists are actually favorites lists, rather than what the 'Best' album(s) were in a given year.

There are a good chunk of LPs I loved this year that aren't represented on that list but as you mentioned, the reviewers can only listen (or keep up with) so much.

Every year, I look forward to the lists over at CVLT NATION. They do a comprehensive 'Best Of' List amongst all their reviewers but they also have Top 10 Lists for each Sub-Genre of Metal & Punk. Each list digs pretty deep!
Old 11-26-20, 03:52 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Yeah, I like the Cvlt Nation lists too. I'm not sure what my 2020 top ten list will be quite yet, but unless something amazing comes out in the next month or so, I have my top one and two choices solidly picked.
Old 11-26-20, 09:50 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock View Post
Yeah, I like the Cvlt Nation lists too. I'm not sure what my 2020 top ten list will be quite yet, but unless something amazing comes out in the next month or so, I have my top one and two choices solidly picked.
I have a combined list of what I enjoyed in 2020 (regardless of Genre) but I need to pull all the Metal LPs out of it.

Probably will post it up here in a few weeks. Looking forward to seeing what everyone enjoyed listening to during this shit show of a year.
Old 11-28-20, 12:48 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
I use to listen to Kaizoku Ban a lot back in the day. (Also Balls To The Wall and Russian Roulette).
(Jogging my memory).

Back in the day, I had just purchased a decent standalone stereo which had decent speakers that could play some decent low end bass (without a subwoofer). At that time, I ended up listening to Accept records a lot.

It just happened that Accept records of that time period (ie. Balls To The Wall, Kaizoku Ban, Metal Heart, and Russian Roulette) had a good sound production with a clean sounding low end bass. In contrast other bands like Iron Maiden, Saxon, Motorhead, Black Sabbath, Venom, etc ... either had the low end bass stripped out or it was a really "muddy" or "boomy" sounding low end bass on their records.


Another big feature at that time, was coming across metal albums which were recorded all digitally. (In those days, it was cds which had "DDD" written somewhere on the cover and/or it was stated outright that is was a digital recording). Around that time, the Judas Priest album Turbo cast a bad reputation for anything metal recorded "all digitally" without using any analog tape in the production. IIRC it was Priest first using guitar synthesizers extensively on Turbo, and the subsequent erroneous association of it with it being "all digitally" recorded. In spite of this erroneous reputation/association in metal circles/magazines of that time period, this was when I first purchased a cd player where the first few cd titles I purchased was "all digitally" recorded albums like Turbo, Metal Heart, etc ... (IIRC, Metal Heart stated outright on the back cover of the record that it was a 32 track digital recording). I wanted to hear how much better they sounded. It did not disappoint.


Around that time I had also purchased an outboard graphic equalizer unit for my standalone stereo. With really muddy / boomy sounding metal records, I cut my teeth on figuring out how to use the equalizer to significantly reduce this "muddiness" in the sound. I was using the Accept records as a guide as to what a clean (or non muddy) low end bass sound could sound like. For example, such as reducing the low end muddiness sound on Black Sabbath's Born Again without cutting out the bass entirely.

Old 11-28-20, 01:48 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post

Around that time I had also purchased an outboard graphic equalizer unit for my standalone stereo. With really muddy / boomy sounding metal records, I cut my teeth on figuring out how to use the equalizer to significantly reduce this "muddiness" in the sound.
Man, I miss playing around with those things on my stereo. I remember trying in vain to make my Bathory records sound "better". A lost cause (now I just accept them for what they were, I still love them to pieces) but it was fun.

Old 11-28-20, 02:10 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock View Post
Man, I miss playing around with those things on my stereo. I remember trying in vain to make my Bathory records sound "better". A lost cause (now I just accept them for what they were, I still love them to pieces) but it was fun.
After several years of this type of graphic equalizer tweaking, I also reluctantly came to the conclusion that it was a huge exercise in futility.

The final straw for me, was many years later when I picked up Megadeth's 2004 re-released version of "Peace Sells ... But Who's Buying?" where Mustaine remixed the entire album from the original multitrack tapes. In spite of the sound being cleaned up in each of the individual tracks of each instrument/vocal, it was obvious the final cleaned up mix still had that crappy muddy sound of the original.


Awhile ago I picked up the 2016 re-released 2cd version of the metalploitation "fake band" Exorcist "Nightmare Theater". For reasons I never understood, apparently this album "Nightmare Theater" was very popular in the proto black metal scene over the past several decades.

This official 2016 re-release of Exorcist "Nightmare Theater" had a remix of the entire album on the second disc. In spite of the cleaned up production with the guitars placed upfront in the mix, it was obvious it still had that muddy / boomy sound of the original. The original version was very very muddy and boomy sounding, with the guitars buried in the mix.

These two cases of Peace Sells and Nightmare Theater being cleaned up + remixed, goes to show that the original multitrack recordings were garbage all along. There is no easy way to "clean up" something which was horrible sounding to begin with.
Old 11-28-20, 03:58 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Very true, you can only do so much with a flawed recording.

That reminds me, I picked up a DVD-A copy of "Peace Sells..." for cheap years ago, but never had the equipment to properly play it, I wonder how it compares to the other releases?
Old 11-28-20, 04:08 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock View Post
That reminds me, I picked up a DVD-A copy of "Peace Sells..." for cheap years ago, but never had the equipment to properly play it, I wonder how it compares to the other releases?
If capitol/emi was lazy about mastering the "peace sells" dvd-a disc, it might be playable on the computer with an open source audio/video player like VLC.

For example, one of my Beatles dvd-a discs was exactly the result of apple/emi being really lazy. There was no encryption on it.
Old 11-28-20, 07:01 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock View Post
Very true, you can only do so much with a flawed recording.

That reminds me, I picked up a DVD-A copy of "Peace Sells..." for cheap years ago, but never had the equipment to properly play it, I wonder how it compares to the other releases?
You can play it on a regular DVD or Blu-ray player, you'll still get 24 bit 96KHz audio over a DTS 5.1 track.
Old 11-29-20, 10:49 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

The biggest reason why I never jumped onto the post-cd format bandwagon of dvd-a, sacd, etc ... (and later bluray-audio), was that I rarely ever saw any titles I was interested in.

Other than that Megadeath Peace Sells and a maybe a Motorhead title, I don't remember seeing any other metal titles released on dvd-a, sacd, etc ... which I was interested in.
Old 11-29-20, 05:20 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

DVD-A and SACD always seemed like doomed formats.
Old 11-30-20, 03:51 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by PerryD View Post
You can play it on a regular DVD or Blu-ray player, you'll still get 24 bit 96KHz audio over a DTS 5.1 track.
Oh yeah, I've played the DTS track (and the music videos included on the disc), I was just always wondering if the DVD-A audio track would sound any better?
Old 11-30-20, 03:53 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
The biggest reason why I never jumped onto the post-cd format bandwagon of dvd-a, sacd, etc ... (and later bluray-audio), was that I rarely ever saw any titles I was interested in.

Other than that Megadeath Peace Sells and a maybe a Motorhead title, I don't remember seeing any other metal titles released on dvd-a, sacd, etc ... which I was interested in.
Yeah, me too. I think Metallica's Black Album came out on DVD-A as well, but I can't remember seeing much else in those formats that I was interested in either.
Old 11-30-20, 05:34 PM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Originally Posted by cultshock View Post
I was just always wondering if the DVD-A audio track would sound any better?
Good question.

If all they did was just lazily digitize the original two-track stereo master tape at 24 bits 96 kHz sampling without doing any "remastering / remixing", then I wouldn't be surprised if it still sounds like garbage as the original 1986 version. (Generic redbook audio cd is 16 bits 44.1 kHz sampling).

The 25th anniversary five-disc version of Peace Sells released in 2011, had a dvd-rom disc which had the original album tracks + the live cd tracks in wav files. Allegedly these wav files might have have been done as 24 bits 96 kHz sampling.
Old 12-03-20, 02:08 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Went through my collection today and came across something which I completely forgotten about. This was one of those $2 dump bin cds I found sometime in the late 1990s, which I never listened to at the time.

Baton Rouge - Lights Out On The Playground

https://www.discogs.com/master/view/873342


Holy shit, initially I thought I was hearing Nickelback!!! But it turns out these guys were one of those Los Angeles Sunset Strip hair metal bands which got lost in the flood of other LA hairspray bands during the late 1980s.

Imagine if the guys in Nickelback were 10+ years older than they are, and didn't have the modern studio recording technology of the past two decades. This is likely what they would sound like.

Last edited by morriscroy; 12-03-20 at 05:21 AM.
Old 12-03-20, 04:49 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

Thinking about it more, there might be a non-obvious reason as to why I'm thinking of "Nickelback" when I listened to Baton Rouge. The producer of Baton Rouge's two albums from the early 1990s, was a person named Jack Ponti.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/26379...Casc&limit=500


Doing some more googling, I learned that Jack Ponti played and wrote songs with a band named The Rest which was one of Jon Bon Jovi's early bands when he was really young around 1980. Jack Ponti even wrote a song "Shot Through The Heart" which was on the first Bon Jovi (1984) album, and also on Surgin's first album "When Midnight Comes" (1985) which was Ponti's later band after The Rest.

I'm guessing Ponti was possibly the master songwriter, where Jon Bon Jovi might have learned the craft of writing songs from which are extremely catchy.

https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/bon-j...os-1st-t55880/

The first Surgin album "When Midnight Comes" has all these elements of a building up to an anthemic chorus in many songs. I also hear this in every Baton Rouge song, and other songs + albums which were written/produced by Ponti, such as (found on youtube):

Doro - Angels Never Die (1993 album)
Every Mother's Nightmare - Bang To The Bone, I Hate Myself, and Break Down (all three songs on Wake Up Screaming 1993 album)
Kittie - Funeral For Yesterday (2007 album)
Alice Cooper - various songs on Hey Stoopid album from 1991
Lance Keltner - (1992 album)
Keel - Somebody's Waiting, and Don't Say You Love Me (on the 1987 self-title album)
Bonfire - Sleeping All Alone, and Sweet Obsession (on the Fire Works 1988 album)
Bonfire - Hard On Me, and Gimme Some (on the 1989 Point Blank album)
Tone Norum - If You Ever Fall
Rebbie Jackson - Read Betwen The Lines (on the R U Tuff Enuff 1988 album)
E.G. Daily - White Train (on the Tearing Down The Walls 1999 album)


The more I listen to Jack Ponti's written/produced stuff, the more it sounds similar to Bon Jovi's written song structures and developing addictive sounding "hooks" which draws you in. This is completely independent of the particular niche/style, as one can see in the above list of diverse bands.

Last edited by morriscroy; 12-03-20 at 05:12 AM.
Old 12-03-20, 04:58 AM
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Re: The Official METAL! Thread- Metalcore, Thrash, Progressive, Death, and MORE

As to how Nickelback fits into all this, I'm guessing Chad Kroeger (singer of Nickelback) studied and dissected really addictive catchy songs written by folks like Bon Jovi and maybe professional songwriters like "Max Martin" (ie. Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, N'Sync, etc ... and later Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Pink, etc ...), Desmond Child (ie. Aerosmith, KISS, Bon Jovi's "Living On A Prayer", etc ...), etc ...

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