most hated band/artist
#76
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
Ahhhh, but you misunderstand.
I don't expect everyone to like what I like. On the other hand I also DON'T expect such outward hostility and hatred. Not for music played by accomplished musicians who write and perform their own music.
Now, hostility and hatred for puppet Pop acts who do not write their own material, and who get by thanks to the studio wizardry of expert producers, THAT I would expect.
You don't have to like Hard Rock and Heavy Metal to appreciate that there is an honesty and an integrity to it. And a hell of a lot of asskickery!
It's not for everyone (though God only knows why ), but it is for people who want both power AND melody in their music.
Personally, I grew up on Big Band Jazz. I still love that stuff. Woody Herman, Buddy Rich (his band in the 70's and early 80's was the best big band EVER), Tommy Dorsey, Maynard Ferguson, Lionel Hampton - great, great musicians & bands. I had the great pleasure to see many of the legends live, and there's nothing quite like a Big Band firing on all cylinders. I've often said that Big Bands are the Heavy Metal of Jazz. What Heavy Metal is to Rock, Big Bands are to Jazz.
I don't like Alternative, never did. But over the years I've developed a grudging respect for some Alternative bands. I still don't like them, but many of them do have musical merit, and I recognize that. It's just a style I don't like. That's all.
But I'm grown up enough now to say that I don't hate the genre - I just don't like it.
Now Rap, there's a genre I hate from top to bottom with very, very few exceptions. Mostly due to the lack of musicians involved in making the, "Music." It's much like the disdain I have for puppet Pop acts for a lack of musical integrity and ability.
But, again, I don't expect everyone to like what I like. I just find it a shame that some people close their minds and (often) ignorantly spew venom towards legit musicians and songwriters with a lot of talent.
I don't expect everyone to like what I like. On the other hand I also DON'T expect such outward hostility and hatred. Not for music played by accomplished musicians who write and perform their own music.
Now, hostility and hatred for puppet Pop acts who do not write their own material, and who get by thanks to the studio wizardry of expert producers, THAT I would expect.
You don't have to like Hard Rock and Heavy Metal to appreciate that there is an honesty and an integrity to it. And a hell of a lot of asskickery!
It's not for everyone (though God only knows why ), but it is for people who want both power AND melody in their music.
Personally, I grew up on Big Band Jazz. I still love that stuff. Woody Herman, Buddy Rich (his band in the 70's and early 80's was the best big band EVER), Tommy Dorsey, Maynard Ferguson, Lionel Hampton - great, great musicians & bands. I had the great pleasure to see many of the legends live, and there's nothing quite like a Big Band firing on all cylinders. I've often said that Big Bands are the Heavy Metal of Jazz. What Heavy Metal is to Rock, Big Bands are to Jazz.
I don't like Alternative, never did. But over the years I've developed a grudging respect for some Alternative bands. I still don't like them, but many of them do have musical merit, and I recognize that. It's just a style I don't like. That's all.
But I'm grown up enough now to say that I don't hate the genre - I just don't like it.
Now Rap, there's a genre I hate from top to bottom with very, very few exceptions. Mostly due to the lack of musicians involved in making the, "Music." It's much like the disdain I have for puppet Pop acts for a lack of musical integrity and ability.
But, again, I don't expect everyone to like what I like. I just find it a shame that some people close their minds and (often) ignorantly spew venom towards legit musicians and songwriters with a lot of talent.
#77
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Originally Posted by Matt Millheiser
Nothing SCREAMS down-n-dirty rock like Whoopi Goldberg and Neil Patrick Harris...
Why dontcha watch "Clara's Heart" everytime that video comes on?
Why dontcha watch "Clara's Heart" everytime that video comes on?
#78
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Originally Posted by redhenry
But your same argument COULD be applied to the rap artists and the pop tartlets that you do hate. They sing, they dance, they choreograph, some write music and lyrics etc. This is just another form of 'accomplishment'.
I find it amazing that we are not allowed to hate what you like (regardless of their talents or lack thereof) but yet you can hate rap music! I too hate rap, and when i hear it it makes me feel the same as when I hear metal, new metal, death metal, hard rock etc. Ergo - I HATE IT!!!
I find it amazing that we are not allowed to hate what you like (regardless of their talents or lack thereof) but yet you can hate rap music! I too hate rap, and when i hear it it makes me feel the same as when I hear metal, new metal, death metal, hard rock etc. Ergo - I HATE IT!!!
#79
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Originally Posted by nothingfails
well, with all due respect. Awhile back, you referred to pop music as nothing but pussy music for girls, when there's a whole world of pop music that has nothing to do with Britney or Jonas Brothers. By your logic, so are The Beach Boys, so are Coldplay, etc...
B.) I would say that The Beach Boys were a 60's Rock and Roll band. Sure, Brian Wilson has a great flair for writing what are considered Pop songs, but most of their repertoire early on was just a derivation of Chuck Berry's songs. Chuck is about as Rock and Roll as it gets.
c.) I don't think I've ever heard Coldplay, so I've never said word one about them.
#80
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Originally Posted by redhenry
But your same argument COULD be applied to the rap artists and the pop tartlets that you do hate. They sing, they dance, they choreograph, some write music and lyrics etc. This is just another form of 'accomplishment'.
Rappers don't have to do that. They buy a drum machine and sample real musican's work and write lyrics. That's street poetry, not songwriting. They DON'T sing (for the most part) and most of them couldn't carry a tune to save their lives (there are always exceptions, but in general this is true).
They dance and choreograph? So what? What does that have to do with what I'm listening to on my stereo? You can't listen to dancing. Dancing DOES require talent and practice and dedication, but it's not musical. It's a visual performance.
I find it amazing that we are not allowed to hate what you like (regardless of their talents or lack thereof) but yet you can hate rap music! I too hate rap, and when i hear it it makes me feel the same as when I hear metal, new metal, death metal, hard rock etc. Ergo - I HATE IT!!!
Honestly, I strongly, STRONGLY dislike Death Metal. Mostly because of the vocals. The Cookie Monster Death Metal vocals drive me nuts. Whenever I hear a band that's playing some good music and then the CMDM vocals come it it totally ruins the whole thing for me. I find that very frustrating. Death Metal fans find that view limited, but they can understand it.
But straight ahead Hard Rock and traditional, "Old School," Heavy Metal where the singers can actually SING, and sing well (Ronnie James Dio, Bruce Dickinson, Rob Halford, etc), I don't hear anything to hate.
SURE - I can EASILY understand someone not liking Hard Rock and Metal, but I've never really seen anyone explain why their response to that music is so extreme. Their comments, like yours, are usually vitriolic without any further explanation as to why.
I've explained why I hate PUPPET Pop acts (the ones who don't write their own music and are propped up by, and completely dependent on, their managers and producers) and Rap music. I have reasons that I've explained. I haven't just made a blanket statement without a reason to back it up.
Like I said, when I was younger I used to have much stronger reactions to Alternative (and Country for that matter), but now I have a measure of respect for many bands in that genre. I still don't like them in the slightest, but I don't hate them, either.
#82
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
A.) I don't recall ever saying that about Pop music. I'm sure I've noted that it IS geared towards a young female audience (because it is, and to deny that Madonna, Britney Spears, all the boy bands of the last 20 years, etc, have been geared towards that audience is to deny the facts), but I don't remember ever saying that.
#83
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Originally Posted by nothingfails
it was back when there were a lot of debates going on about whether Madonna was worthy of the Hall Of Fame or not. And personally, I thought that assumption was rather homophobic because pop music is generally huge amongst gay men, who generally have no shame in wearing their love for Madonna, Cher, Britney (well, not me lol), ABBA, Cyndi Lauper, Justin Timberlake, etc etc etc... on their sleeve.
...
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Originally Posted by nothingfails
I dislike Nickelback because they purposely cater themselves to the red-state pro-Bush anti-gay pro-Confederate flag crowd. Just look at the people they put in their Rockstar video. Maybe had they put a Whoopi Goldberg or Neil Patrick Harris to go alongside Ted Nugent and John Rich with their cameos, I could forgive them, but no.... they're red state trash.
#86
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Originally Posted by lordzeppelin
I have never understood how anyone can listen to Rush, and talk about how great they are.
I know a guy who can't stand Rush but he agreed to go see them. He swears it was the best concert he has ever seen.
Last edited by KnightLerxst; 07-24-08 at 01:08 PM.
#87
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Originally Posted by nothingfails
it was back when there were a lot of debates going on about whether Madonna was worthy of the Hall Of Fame or not. And personally, I thought that assumption was rather homophobic because pop music is generally huge amongst gay men, who generally have no shame in wearing their love for Madonna, Cher, Britney (well, not me lol), ABBA, Cyndi Lauper, Justin Timberlake, etc etc etc... on their sleeve.
#88
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I would say that the vast majority of what I listen to is "pop music". However, my definition of what is pop music is probably much broader than most people's. The Beatles were pop, so were/are The Who, The Small Faces, and the other British Invasion bands. The Byrds and CCR were pop bands. R.E.M. is a pop band. So is Modest Mouse, The Shins, Arcade Fire, The Smiths, Pixies, etc. The idea that there's a stigma attached to the music you like also being enjoyed by millions of other people is elitist and puerile, and I simply refuse to acknowledge it as valid.
I know there is a lot of love for all the "kick ass testosterone rock" in here, but there are a lot of people who feel that pop music is just as good as Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and all the other metal bands that "real men" like. Even many of the rock bands I love have pop tendencies (like U2, The Rolling Stones, Mellencamp, Springsteen, The Killers, Def Leppard, etc... aren't above a good pop song) same with r&b artists and other genres. I wish more people would be open about loving good pop music instead of worrying about the stereotype that they're gay. If anything, wouldn't this make gay people look better because they're unashamed to admit that ABBA kicked ass in the 70's (a mentality straight people have finally begun to accept) and that Madonna in the 80's was amazing, etc...
#89
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Anyone who thinks that it DOESN'T take just as much (if not MORE) talent to produce a successful/quality pop song as it does to produce a successful/quality rock, metal, alt, progressive, or WHATEVER genre song is absolutely kidding themselves, or engaging in their usual "My genre is better than YOURS because it takes TALENT to succeed in mine!" faulty argument.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again because it's still as true: there's more craft, artistry, and musicianship in Cheap Trick's "I Want You To Want Me" (the most perfect Power-Pop song ever written) than in Nine Inch Nail's entire repertoire. And you can bank on that. Don't believe me? I'll break you with my bare hands!!
I've said this before, and I'll say it again because it's still as true: there's more craft, artistry, and musicianship in Cheap Trick's "I Want You To Want Me" (the most perfect Power-Pop song ever written) than in Nine Inch Nail's entire repertoire. And you can bank on that. Don't believe me? I'll break you with my bare hands!!
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
Do you know how many years it takes to just become mediocre on guitar from a Hard Rock or Heavy Metal standard? And to become legitimately good on guitar (or drums) you're talking about almost a decade of dedication.
That doesn't mean that I don't like music from talented people. I think what Radiohead takes oodles of talent. But that's not why I care for them. You really like Kiss quite a bit. I don't quite get all the threads about them, but that's fine because it floats your boat. I liked them back in the 70's because they did write a few good songs here and there. Not since. Just screams cheese to me.
While I pretty much hate all that hair metal shit from the late 80's, I'll still have to deride Nickelback as the worst of the worst. That's some seriously boring music.
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Originally Posted by Matt Millheiser
Anyone who thinks that it DOESN'T take just as much (if not MORE) talent to produce a successful/quality pop song as it does to produce a successful/quality rock, metal, alt, progressive, or WHATEVER genre song is absolutely kidding themselves, or engaging in their usual "My genre is better than YOURS because it takes TALENT to succeed in mine!" faulty argument.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again because it's still as true: there's more craft, artistry, and musicianship in Cheap Trick's "I Want You To Want Me" (the most perfect Power-Pop song ever written) than in Nine Inch Nail's entire repertoire. And you can bank on that. Don't believe me? I'll break you with my bare hands!!
I've said this before, and I'll say it again because it's still as true: there's more craft, artistry, and musicianship in Cheap Trick's "I Want You To Want Me" (the most perfect Power-Pop song ever written) than in Nine Inch Nail's entire repertoire. And you can bank on that. Don't believe me? I'll break you with my bare hands!!
I honestly do think teen pop is very generic and requires no talent, just looks and personality (even though IMO, Justin Timberlake has proven himself to be a worthy artist and has shaken that image successfully), but Miley Cyrus, etc... is maybe .5% of all that pop music encompasses. Most power-pop fans would never be caught dead listening to Miley Cyrus or Hilary Duff. Listen to what Brian Wilson was doing in the 60's, he wasn't rock but the man was a freaking genius. And while ABBA's "coolness" will always be disputed (mainly from high end snobs who just can't break down and admit a good pop song when they hear it), Benny and Bjorn were studio geniuses. Even tho I have always been an ABBA fan, I didn't recognize just how talented those two guys were until I saw a documentary long after their breakup where they went into a studio and showed just how they would create songs that would go on to become classics. Even if you hate their music, there's talent there.
Some of the best music ever made was pop IMO.
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Originally Posted by atlantamoi
This is where your taste differs from someone like me. Musical accomplishment probably doesn't even rank in the top 10 of things I care about in music. I care about how a song sounds. If it's slightly amateurish or even has mistakes in it I really don't care... if the song is good. So much of that 60's garage rock, that I adore very much, was practically pounded out by kids barely out of high school with limited experience.
That doesn't mean that I don't like music from talented people. I think what Radiohead takes oodles of talent. But that's not why I care for them. You really like Kiss quite a bit. I don't quite get all the threads about them, but that's fine because it floats your boat. I liked them back in the 70's because they did write a few good songs here and there. Not since. Just screams cheese to me.
While I pretty much hate all that hair metal shit from the late 80's, I'll still have to deride Nickelback as the worst of the worst. That's some seriously boring music.
That doesn't mean that I don't like music from talented people. I think what Radiohead takes oodles of talent. But that's not why I care for them. You really like Kiss quite a bit. I don't quite get all the threads about them, but that's fine because it floats your boat. I liked them back in the 70's because they did write a few good songs here and there. Not since. Just screams cheese to me.
While I pretty much hate all that hair metal shit from the late 80's, I'll still have to deride Nickelback as the worst of the worst. That's some seriously boring music.
To me, if a song sounds good, I'm going to check the artist out, which is a reason why I don't limit myself to one genre. I believe there is good music in every genre and I love finding artists that appeal to me. To just pick one genre of music and stick to it without opening your mind to others is like picking a clique in high school. It doesn't bother me at all to admit that I love Coldplay's latest, Weezer's latest, John Mellencamp's latest (it's grown on me a bit), Alanis Morissette's latest, R.E.M.'s latest, Kylie Minogue's latest, Mariah Carey's latest and even enjoy the current singles that Chris Brown and Jesse McCartney have out.... if the music clicks to my ears, I'll give it a chance.
#93
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Originally Posted by nothingfails
And while ABBA's "coolness" will always be disputed (mainly from high end snobs who just can't break down and admit a good pop song when they hear it), Benny and Bjorn were studio geniuses.
#94
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Originally Posted by atlantamoi
I can remember being miffed with my sister for buying their albums when I was going through that stupid "Disco Sucks" phase back in the late 70's. Not that ABBA was disco, but I would never admit to liking anything beyond FM rock radio. It's great that ABBA's music has really stood the test of time, though. It didn't take long for me to grow up and warm up to their music. They have a stash of songs that just about any artist would kill to have written.
* They wrote their own music and played their own instruments
* They had a very unique and instantly recognizeable sound and style
* They wrote catchy singles with monster hooks and killer melodies
#95
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
Sorry, it's not MUSICAL accomplishment. Do you know how many years it takes to just become mediocre on guitar from a Hard Rock or Heavy Metal standard?
And to become legitimately good on guitar (or drums) you're talking about almost a decade of dedication.
Rappers don't have to do that. They buy a drum machine and sample real musican's work and write lyrics.
Rappers don't have to do that. They buy a drum machine and sample real musican's work and write lyrics.
That's street poetry, not songwriting. They DON'T sing (for the most part) and most of them couldn't carry a tune to save their lives (there are always exceptions, but in general this is true).
They dance and choreograph? So what? What does that have to do with what I'm listening to on my stereo?
They dance and choreograph? So what? What does that have to do with what I'm listening to on my stereo?
You can't listen to dancing. Dancing DOES require talent and practice and dedication, but it's not musical. It's a visual performance.
Why?
Honestly, I strongly, STRONGLY dislike Death Metal. Mostly because of the vocals. The Cookie Monster Death Metal vocals drive me nuts. Whenever I hear a band that's playing some good music and then the CMDM vocals come it it totally ruins the whole thing for me. I find that very frustrating. Death Metal fans find that view limited, but they can understand it.
But straight ahead Hard Rock and traditional, "Old School," Heavy Metal where the singers can actually SING, and sing well (Ronnie James Dio, Bruce Dickinson, Rob Halford, etc), I don't hear anything to hate.
Why?
Honestly, I strongly, STRONGLY dislike Death Metal. Mostly because of the vocals. The Cookie Monster Death Metal vocals drive me nuts. Whenever I hear a band that's playing some good music and then the CMDM vocals come it it totally ruins the whole thing for me. I find that very frustrating. Death Metal fans find that view limited, but they can understand it.
But straight ahead Hard Rock and traditional, "Old School," Heavy Metal where the singers can actually SING, and sing well (Ronnie James Dio, Bruce Dickinson, Rob Halford, etc), I don't hear anything to hate.
SURE - I can EASILY understand someone not liking Hard Rock and Metal, but I've never really seen anyone explain why their response to that music is so extreme. Their comments, like yours, are usually vitriolic without any further explanation as to why.
I've explained why I hate PUPPET Pop acts (the ones who don't write their own music and are propped up by, and completely dependent on, their managers and producers) and Rap music. I have reasons that I've explained. I haven't just made a blanket statement without a reason to back it up.
I've explained why I hate PUPPET Pop acts (the ones who don't write their own music and are propped up by, and completely dependent on, their managers and producers) and Rap music. I have reasons that I've explained. I haven't just made a blanket statement without a reason to back it up.
Like I said, when I was younger I used to have much stronger reactions to Alternative (and Country for that matter), but now I have a measure of respect for many bands in that genre. I still don't like them in the slightest, but I don't hate them, either.
#96
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
I would say that the vast majority of what I listen to is "pop music". However, my definition of what is pop music is probably much broader than most people's. The Beatles were pop, so were/are The Who, The Small Faces, and the other British Invasion bands. The Byrds and CCR were pop bands. R.E.M. is a pop band. So is Modest Mouse, The Shins, Arcade Fire, The Smiths, Pixies, etc. The idea that there's a stigma attached to the music you like also being enjoyed by millions of other people is elitist and puerile, and I simply refuse to acknowledge it as valid.
#97
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Originally Posted by redhenry
Isn't pop short for popular - hence isn't all music, pop music?
#98
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Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
ABBA had, for me, the main requirements of a band worthy of respect:
* They wrote their own music and played their own instruments
* They had a very unique and instantly recognizeable sound and style
* They wrote catchy singles with monster hooks and killer melodies
* They wrote their own music and played their own instruments
* They had a very unique and instantly recognizeable sound and style
* They wrote catchy singles with monster hooks and killer melodies
The Pop acts that I have no respect for are the ones who don't write their own music - the ones acting as robots programmed by the record producer and manager.
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Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
ABBA had, for me, the main requirements of a band worthy of respect:
* They wrote their own music and played their own instruments
* They had a very unique and instantly recognizeable sound and style
* They wrote catchy singles with monster hooks and killer melodies
* They wrote their own music and played their own instruments
* They had a very unique and instantly recognizeable sound and style
* They wrote catchy singles with monster hooks and killer melodies