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Sgt Pepper must die! (classic albums that aren't)

Old 06-22-07, 10:00 AM
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funny that a member of Sugababes writes a scathing article about ABBA. I mean, have you ever heard the Sugababes? they wish they could have a song as catchy as Mamma Mia or Dancing Queen. Sugababes is just another one of the not-so-Spice-Girls Spice Girl clones, to bash the group that paved the way for Europop to begin with is a laugh. Trust me when I say that in 30 years, Sugababes won't be as revered as ABBA are now.
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Old 06-22-07, 11:25 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11
First of all, Marquee Moon pretty much invented the "college rock" jangle-pop genre. Without it, there would be no "Murmur", no "Queen is Dead" and certainly no Galaxie 500 or any other of the indie New York guitar bands. Like Velvet Underground and Nico, countless bands owe their career to this album.

Secondly, it was one of the first "mature" punk/post-punk albums. It (along with early Talking Heads) was one of the first albums to mix punk, post-punk and instrumental virtuosity and say that they weren't necessarily incompatible and that grown-ups could enjoy this music as well.

Thirdly, they certainly weren't a fucking "jam band". That implies that they were undeciplined or wandered aimlessly. Their arrangements were famously tight as a drum, meticulously constructed and hardly feature one extra note. If anything, they were overly fussy and detail obsessed. Verlaine was notorious for the thousands of takes they did for each song on the album to get every note in its place. Just because they wrote reasonably long songs doesn't make them self-indulgent. What a dumb comment.

It's a classic and it's stupid to pretend otherwise.
And Amen to that!

I was actually going to post something similar before regarding the virtuoso aspect of the album. People tend to think that a punk attitude and virtuosity are mutually exclusive, as if 3-chord Ramones songs is the only template for punk inspired music. I've heard a lot of people use that argument against Television and it's just so dumb. Besides, again as you mentioned already, Television is far from being a "jam group". Actually, the music is as grooveless as can possibly be. It just sounds so nervous and wiry, how can you possibly use a word like "jam" to describe it? I don't get it.

Also, to make a good analogy about this record's importance akin to The Velvet Underground and Nico, when this was originally released, it didn't sell too many copies. It was later that mainly musicians like the the ones that were already mentioned were influenced by it, thus slowly making the case for its greatness.

It's one of my absolute favorite albums and it never gets old. I turned one of my very good friends into a fan too, which I feel very proud of having done. A truly special moment captured on music. Even their next album, Adventure (which I also love), couldn't replicate as well the glory of these 8 songs.
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Old 06-22-07, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Nirvana, Nevermind
Nominated by Wayne Coyne of the Flaming Lips
Shocking that someone who I think is one of the most overrated bands of the 2000s calling out Nirvana.

At least Nirvana got people to listen to them by writing songs from the heart, and didn't have to resort to putting on bunny suits and rolling around in a bubble to make people think they were clever...

And did he REALLY say Nirvana sounds like Nickelback? Did I really need another reason to hate Wayne Coyne?
-jason

Last edited by fuzzbox; 06-22-07 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 06-22-07, 11:57 AM
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Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. Some of those are pretty funny. Wayne Coyne & Eddie Argos' being the standouts IMHO.
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Old 06-22-07, 12:03 PM
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Sadly most of their arguments fall flat for me. Mostly they just sound like they were pissed that they couldnt do it themselves.
None of those people had an album that was anywhere near some on that list.

Ok what does over-rated mean? Does that mean it isnt good? Does it mean it is crap that is well liked? Or does it mean that yes, its good but because it is SO well known it deserves to be called over-rated?

Frankly I think saying what is over-rated is pure tripe, and a waste of time. If your saying something isnt good, thats one thing, but saying something is over-rated is just stupid to me.

some of their assesments of the albums just seemed ignorant or based in jealousy and bittnerness.
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Old 06-22-07, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzzbox
At least Nirvana got people to listen to them by writing songs from the heart, and didn't have to resort to putting on bunny suits and rolling around in a bubble to make people think they were clever...
-jason
Interesting, I find the whole sound (lyrics & music) of the Flaming Lips more emotionally involving than what Nirvana did. Meaning big, fat songs from the heart. Also one of the best live bands on the planet.
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Old 06-22-07, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by atlantamoi
Interesting, I find the whole sound (lyrics & music) of the Flaming Lips more emotionally involving than what Nirvana did. Meaning big, fat songs from the heart. Also one of the best live bands on the planet.
ditto
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Old 06-22-07, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by atlantamoi
Interesting, I find the whole sound (lyrics & music) of the Flaming Lips more emotionally involving than what Nirvana did. Meaning big, fat songs from the heart. Also one of the best live bands on the planet.
Agreed. And albums like Clouds Taste Metallic, The Soft Bulletin, and Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots are some of the best albums of the past decade. And notice Coyne didn't see he disliked Nirvana, as he praises the albums before and after Nevermind.
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Old 06-22-07, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by atlantamoi
And that's exactly why some people aren't crazy about it. Or at least think it's not the best Beatles album. I'm one of those people who generally likes my rock music right to the point with warts and all. I'd choose the five albums released before Sgt. Pepper just about any day.
Yeah, I can understand that POV... And it's not my favorite Beatles album either but it is the album - like it or don't like it - that announced to the world that rock music can also be art. Calling it "not a classic" is just plain d u m b.

Nevermind has always been overrated but it is a solid record.

As mentioned, Dark Side was on the charts for a zillion months, of course it's a classic. While it may not be someone's "thing" it's obviously a classic album. Duh.

LA Woman was not The Doors best effort, true, but I've never personally considered it to be... It still has some good cuts on it though and The Doors are arguably - IMHO - one of the best bands to ever come out of America.

I've never been a big Velvet Underground fan... Not really my thing. Different strokes and all but it is a classic. I can see that.

No comment on the rest since I would tend to agree, they are not and will never be "classics" (Pet Sounds and Marquee Moon excluded - again, not really "my thing").
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Old 06-22-07, 07:17 PM
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Ian Rankin is so misinformed about the relationship between the Velvets and Warhol that I can't take anything else he wrote seriously.
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Old 06-22-07, 10:29 PM
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It's blasphemy to say 'Pet Sounds' is not a classic album. I'm not a Beach Boys fan and even I can apperciate that album.
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Old 06-22-07, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fuzzbox
Did I really need another reason to hate Wayne Coyne?
I didn't think it was possible for anyone to hate Wayne Coyne.

That's too bad. Wayne's good people.
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Old 06-23-07, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Ian Rankin is so misinformed about the relationship between the Velvets and Warhol that I can't take anything else he wrote seriously.
As well as his complete inability to see exactly who The Velvets influenced.
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Old 06-23-07, 09:36 PM
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And Nico's voice is flat throughout - she sings English the way I sing German. Talk about looks being everything: she was a supermodel trying to sing in a rock band, but she couldn't sing - she gave good dirge.
Now, I love The Velvet Underground and Nico, but I've always agreed with this criticism. The album would've been much, much better had she not been involved with it. She completely ruins one of the band's best songs: "I'll Be Your Mirror" (I prefer Reed's solo acoustic version off of Perfect Night simply for the fact that Nico doesn't sing it).
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Old 06-24-07, 05:29 AM
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Nico is an acquired taste for sure, but she actually was a very talented emotive singer, albeit an offbeat one. Check out her album The End for proof of this.
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Old 06-24-07, 08:16 AM
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My personal favorite argument was the fact that Pink Floyd's "Money" is hypocritical because Dark Side of the Moon has made so much money.

I enjoy basking in idiocy.
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Old 06-24-07, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Nico is an acquired taste for sure, but she actually was a very talented emotive singer, albeit an offbeat one.
yeah! anyone here heard of Joy Division?? great band with a singer that has a (what most would think..) horrible voice.
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Old 06-24-07, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Nico is an acquired taste for sure, but she actually was a very talented emotive singer, albeit an offbeat one. Check out her album The End for proof of this.
Most of her solo stuff is beautiful, excepting her rock period in the early '80s, which produced her album Camera Obscura.
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Old 06-24-07, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollowgen
yeah! anyone here heard of Joy Division?? great band with a singer that has a (what most would think..) horrible voice.
Very good point there. I remember the first time I heard Joy Division liking the music but being put off by Ian's voice. It's definitely one that doesn't endear you immediately. But of course, that was the great thing about the influence of punk: not everybody had to have traditional "good" singing voices.

By the way, "Atmosphere" is one particular Joy Division song that also proves that a morose voice can be very emotional indeed.
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Old 06-25-07, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Most of her solo stuff is beautiful, excepting her rock period in the early '80s, which produced her album Camera Obscura.
I love her early 80's rock period, Drama of Exile is probably my favorite album of hers. I enjoy Camera Obscura, but more as a collaboration between her and John Cale than as a full Nico album.
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Old 06-25-07, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I love her early 80's rock period, Drama of Exile is probably my favorite album of hers. I enjoy Camera Obscura, but more as a collaboration between her and John Cale than as a full Nico album.
Oh, I like it too- it's just not beautiful.

That said, I don't think she was a very good rock singer, but if you like Nico, you like her, warts and all. Plus, my bizarre opinion is that her version of "Heroes" is better than Bowie's.
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Old 06-25-07, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
And notice Coyne didn't see he disliked Nirvana, as he praises the albums before and after Nevermind.

He also mentions that he does not go and take it out, implying he owns it. And the dig about Nickleback is about kids today not knowing what came before there crap bands.
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Old 09-16-07, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet

I also think Jim Morrison is one of the most overrated figures in all of rock. Talk about pretentious. The guy had some charisma sometimes, but the real talent in The Doors were the people playing instruments.
The Doors were totally "a group talent." There's no denying Jim Morrison was pretentious, but he did have chops. Without Morrison, there'd be no Doors. As Jim himself said, when asked to quit the Doors, reportedly said, "Quit the Doors? I am the Doors."

And he's right. The band was successful as much for Jim's singing and antics and image as it was for Manzarek (organ), Densmore (drums), and Krieger (guitar) for their amazing music. Take away one from that equasion, you got none. This is evident after Morrison's demise and the three musicians failed after making two albums on their own.

'L.A. Woman' is an amazing album, insomuch because it was a complete departure from their debut four years earlier. The Doors were growing, expanding, incorporating blues with rock and roll, and it was terrific. I would have loved to see what might have come after that, had Morrison lived and decided to remain with the band.
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Old 09-16-07, 07:56 AM
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I think this thread was initially about dethroning "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" from being the best of the best.

I admit that I ignored "Sgt Peppers" sight out of mind because the other Beatles albums held more familiar material that I was aware of. I dismissed "Pepper" for not really having any "hits," other than "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" and, to a lesser extent, "With A Little Help From My Friends," both of which were included on the Beatles "Blue" compilation.

However, once bored by the very familiar material, I ventured into the unfamiliar, and "discovered" Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band! This is not to say that every song is terrific (to me), but there's a lot of interesting material on this album that, I think, has never been attempted up to then (1967). Innovative music, unlike what was currently being played and sold to that point, and dramatic concepts. And the songs were good, too. Who can ignore "Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite," "When I'm Sixty-Four," "Good Morning Good Morning," or the title track?

I think this album does deserve to endure as the "best."
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Old 09-16-07, 08:20 AM
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Regardless of whether or not it's actually "The Best," Sgt. Pepper will always be a landmark work in rock and roll.
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