Here's a good article from the Boston Globe about Zeitgeist and the Pumpkins place in music today, kinda a long read but worth it.

Review

here's a snippet..
"The waning interest is both understandable and unfortunate, for Smashing Pumpkins were the torch carriers for a monumental bombast American pop culture has grown too drenched in irony and cynicism to tolerate. "Zeitgeist" is a return to the harder-edged Pumpkins sound, its booming drums and echo-chamber guitar hooks placing the emphasis on the band's roots in Black Sabbath and the New Romantics. Emerging at a moment when groups prefer to find inspiration in Joy Division (like Interpol, see CD review on E1) or Gang of Four (Bloc Party) or electric blues (the White Stripes), this taste for arena-filling, crowd-pleasing, easy-on-the-ears sounds is, strangely , an artistically and commercially unpopular choice. Smashing Pumpkins have become representatives of Clinton-era simplicity and straightforwardness, their gigantism and lack of irony shortcomings when sharing the cultural stage with Flight of the Conchords and Modest Mouse. In an era when concision and self-deprecation are favored , it is difficult to believe that a band so sprawling, and so nakedly ambitious, could have been as enormously popular as they once were. A double-disc, 28-track album with an opening instrumental overture suitable for weddings and graduation ceremonies? Fans are unlikely to hit up iTunes for that sort of thing in 2007."

Very good article.Thanks TripWire :)

One thing that always stands out for me was hearing Billy talk about how the death of Kurt really took the wind out of their sails(they meaning the alt rock scene i think he meant) and i always thought that was a chicken shit way to look at things.Then he started blaming the boy bands and Britney Spears but meanwhile the Pumpkins music just wasnt that good after Mellon Collie.I dont think ive ever been as disappointed in an album as i was with Adore.

But in the end im happy that i have Gish,Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie to listen to and i will give Zeitgeist a chance atleast.

Finally heard it in its entirety. Although it's not as bad as I feared (certainly better sounding overall than MACHINA), I just felt underwhelmed by the lackluster quality of the songwriting. Mind you, I hated Mellon Collie the first time I heard it and now regard it as the last true great Pumpkins album, with Adore and MACHINA still sounding mediocre to me after all these years.

I'll keep hearing it over the next couple of weeks to see if I can wrap my head around the songs.

One thing I've noticed about most of the album reviews so far is that roughly 75% of the article is a reflection of the group's commercial prime or a history lesson of the dawn before the breakup in 2000.

Don't any of these 'critics' want to spend any of their words discussing the sound and songs of the new record?

I was hoping for a little softer, poetic album with the bursts of rock every now and then. But it's not bad, it'll definitely gets lots of play this summer.

Yup, iTunes emailed me a couple of hours ago. You should have yours soon if not already.


As for the album, I'm gonna give it some time and see if it grows on me. Honestly, I didn't think much of Tarantula at first, but it really grew on me, and now I love it. I'm noticing that with other songs on the album, so give me a few days...

Here is a pretty favorable straightforward no history of the band review from Sputnik
Review

Sorry if posting all these reviews is annoying, but this album I find has had one of the more interesting reviews I have read in awhile. And yeah astrochimp, I don't think Adore is too horrible on it's own, but I think that should of been a Corgan solo record, not an SP one.

I'm still playing the hell out of it, I never get tired of hearing that drum intro start the album and then just fall into distorted goodness.

Didn't see this posted yet, it's an hour long interview with Billy and Jimmy talking about the new album:

http://www.fmqbproductions.com/broad.../download.html



Picked it up at Target yesterday. On first listen it didn't really impress me, but it's already starting to grow on me. I don't think it can compare to Gish / Siamese Dream / Mellon Collie, but that's a pretty high standard to live up to.

I'm glad I got the Target version, since I really like the song "Zeitgeist".

As for the 4 different versions, I think that's BS. It made me not want to buy any of the versions, but I'm a longtime SP fan, so I've gotta have at least one physical CD in the collection. Haven't heard the other two bonus tracks, but "Zeitgeist" definitely belongs on ANY version of the album, AFAIC. For Christ's sake, it's a great song and the TITLE TRACK, and it really closes the album nicely.

As mentioned before, Siamese Dream is not on Siamese Dream. I think P&C is a better album ender, personally.

I for one think the album is amazing upon the first listen. Bleeding the orchid is one of my favourite tracks so far,its heavy and very haunting. (Come On) Let's go is another personal favourite-its energetic and overall i think the album is up there with gish,siamse dream and mellon collie. Everybody though seems to be comparing the new album to these classics so your not really giving the album a proper chance. The pumpkins defined an era with those albums and its nice to reminise but its time to look forward to a new era of the pumpkins saga. The Chili Peppers progressed so much between californiacation and by the way and i look forward to seeing how much more the pumpkins will excel.thanks for the music.

I personally wasn't to impressed with the new album, being a super big pumpkins fan, so-so Zwan fan and so-so Corgan solo fan. Nothing very memorable to me.

On another note anybody try getting tickets this morning with the presale pwd? I couldn't get tickets right away to the Orpheum shows in Boston, guess I'll go to the other route :(

Err.. NM I was just able to get tickets, not good seats but I'll take getting them at face, although after ticket master and convenience charges they're expensive..

Is there a Smashing Pumpkins song called "Siamese Dream" that I'm not aware off? There's no "Gish" either. Big deal. There IS a song called "Zeitgeist", and it IS on at least one version of the album. In my opinion, it belongs on ALL versions of the album, that's all.

While P&C is a decent album-ender, I think that's just due to the general vibe of the song. Strictly as a song, it doesn't really do much for me. "Zeitgeist", however, is probably among my 5 favorites on the album. But then, I like a lot of the "stripped down" types of SP songs.

Actually, I think all 3 of the exclusive tracks are worthy enough to be on the album, especially compared to a few of the more mediocre tracks that are on all versions.

Yes there is.

:hscratch: What? That's the basic thrust of your post, that because it's named the same as the title of the album, it should be on there. I would say that most albums are not named after any of the songs on them.

did anyone go to the 9:30 Club show on Tuesday? (July 10)

when is the XFM satellite performance getting aired or has it already?

"That's The Way My Love Is" is my fav right now...

Sigh...$50 (after ticketmaster fees) to see em live... I don't know... I'll probably see the Editors instead for $20.

and they put on a great show! (have my tix to see them)

OK, I've dug around and found out that the song "Siamese Dream" was on the 7" single for "Disarm". I'd be curious to hear it. Is it a good song? Was it ever released on CD in any form? As far as I can tell, it was only on the 7" vinyl single for "Disarm", and on the previously available "Rarities" collection on iTunes (damn, I'm pissed I didn't get that for $9.99 before they pulled it!) Hold the phone, I see that it is back on iTunes, but for $119.99. Double damn.


The basic thrust of my post is that there is a GOOD song, titled "Zeitgeist", that is on one of the several different versions of the album, and in my opinion it deserves to be on ANY version of the album. That's all. And I think this is quite different than the case with the song "Siamese Dream": one is very very obscure, the other is not.

As for your contention that most albums are not named after any of the songs on them, that may be true. But how many bands have an album and a song of the same name, but that song is not on that album. I can't think of any (other than, apparently, Siamese Dream), although I can think of plenty where the reverse is true. I'm sure some more examples could be dug up, but I'd imagine that the ratio is at least 10-1 against it.

I don't know why my opinion that this readily available title track deserves to be on the album is so outrageous to you. I mean, do you totally disagree? And what do you think of the different versions of the album?

The song 'Siamese Dream' is on the 'Disarm' single if I recall correctly.
It's not incredibly memorable and doesn't really fit with the rest of the album, but it's not bad by any means.

-Paul Jacobi-

Def Leppard's album "On Throught the Night" did not contain a song with that title.

However, the album after that had a song named "On Throught the Night"

Oh jeez, what have I started? I'm sure there are many examples of songs with the same title as an album, that were not on that album. I'm also sure that there are many many more examples of the opposite (I mean, isn't that where the phrase "title track" came from?). However, that's not really my whole point.

Now, this "4 different versions of the same album, all released on the same day" thing is kind of unprecedented (and, in my opinion, a total BS money-grubbing move). I'd like to know what Billy thinks is the "definitive" version of the album.


What do the rest of you think of the 3 exclusive tracks? Good? Bad? Some or all deserve to be on the "definitive" album? In what order?

I think all three are decent songs, and would fit right in on the album. Especially the title track. And, of course, this is only MY OPINION. But here's my version:

1. Doomsday Clock
2. 7 Shades Of Black
3. Bleeding The Orchid
4. That’s The Way (My Love Is)
5. Tarantula
6. Starz
7. United States
8. Neverlost
9. Death From Above (Best Buy exclusive track)
10. Bring The Light
11. (Come On) Let’s Go!
12. Stellar (iTunes exclusive track)
13. For God And Country
14. Pomp And Circumstances
15. Zeitgeist (Target exclusive track)

In truth, SD is not that good of a song. One of Billy's worst problems IMHO is that he won't break down songs with a good riff or chorus and combine it with another. Many of their b-sides suffer from this.

The problem with answering the question "how many bands have title tracks not on the album" is problematic. SP is prolific in terms of releasing b-sides (or was). Others, not so much. So it could be 10-1 or 2-1 or 100-1. I don't know.

It's not outrageous, I just don't think it's a reason in itself to be included (nor do you entirely, I know that you like the song individually).

As for the different versions of the album, well, it's shitty, frankly, but I will still buy one copy of it (I have an advance copy and have heard all the tracks, just can't decide which one to get). But remember, when Machina was released, there was about 10 different bonuses you could get. Does anyone else remember that?

i bought the album like 4 times, and i don't. tell me what that was all about!!

There were 4 Machina lithographs available at different stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, Media Play, etc). Turns out that 2 of them are very rare and 2 of them are very common (the lion and the eagle IIRC).

I might need some help, but off the top of my head, there was the 1991-200x promo disc with remastered versions of the band's greatest hits (including I am One which was not on Greatest Hits). There was also a cardboard sleeve cd ep with some b-side tracks on it from the Machina sessions. Then the lithos, which I threw away a few years ago. I know there are more, I'd have to dig through my stuff.

The best buy version came with the 5 cd track 'Still Becoming Apart' which was excellent.

The tracklisting was

Hope (instrumental demo)
Blissed and Gone
Apathy's last Kiss
Mayonaise (acoustic)
Eye

It was a phenomenal little extra to get with the album.

-Paul Jacobi-