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-   -   2006 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/music-talk/446845-2006-rock-roll-hall-fame.html)

Brain Stew 11-30-05 07:22 PM


Originally Posted by Jason
Why? Because it's one of the few shows they bothered to actually perform at?

That concert is the one that caused quite afew Mancunians to start bands. Most notably Joy Division, who went on to become New Order and almost singlehandedly finance a record label, influencial night club and the "rave culture."

In America it's hard to understand this, because raves didn't really become mainstream until around 95-97 while in the UK raves were old hat by 89.

Also, a little band known as The Smiths ;) were supposedly there as well as the Buzzcocks.

I've said before that the 1980s acts are going to be hard for the RRHoF. Do they go with the alternative acts or the more popular metal acts? Personally I prefer the former more. But who knows what will happen?

Filmmaker 11-30-05 07:24 PM


Originally Posted by auto
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Each of those bands, in their prime, were heads and tails better than U2 was in their prime.

Maybe you need to broaden your musical spectrum. :shrug:

Holy shit. Tell me you don't have a voter registration card...

ChrisKnudsen 11-30-05 07:29 PM

What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously. The Sex Pistols are pretty much the symbol of punk rock, at least, to the eyes of the mainstream. Think of all the punk rock bands that these no-knowledge muscians inspired. In just one year after, punk rock flourished across the world with literally hundreds of thousands of bands. A lot of them would fade into obscurity and be bootlegged 20 years down the line on Killed by Death sort of line comps but who can not smile to something like the Notsensiables' "I'm in Love with Margeret Thatcher" or the Tits' "Daddy is my Pusher." Anyone and everyone that didn't know how to play their instruments were inspired to play.

wendersfan 11-30-05 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by Brain Stew
That concert is the one that caused quite afew Mancunians to start bands. Most notably Joy Division, who went on to become New Order and almost singlehandedly finance a record label, influencial night club and the "rave culture."

In America it's hard to understand this, because raves didn't really become mainstream until around 95-97 while in the UK raves were old hat by 89.

Also, a little band known as The Smiths ;) were supposedly there as well as the Buzzcocks.

I've said before that the 1980s acts are going to be hard for the RRHoF. Do they go with the alternative acts or the more popular metal acts? Personally I prefer the former more. But who knows what will happen?

You left out The Fall. :)

But otherwise, nice job of answering a question probably not deserving of an answer.

Jason 11-30-05 08:27 PM


Originally Posted by Brain Stew
That concert is the one that caused quite afew Mancunians to start bands. Most notably Joy Division, who went on to become New Order and almost singlehandedly finance a record label, influencial night club and the "rave culture."

In America it's hard to understand this, because raves didn't really become mainstream until around 95-97 while in the UK raves were old hat by 89.

Also, a little band known as The Smiths ;) were supposedly there as well as the Buzzcocks.

So, none of these bands would have been formed if it wasn't for the Sex Pistols?

Brain Stew 11-30-05 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by Jason
So, none of these bands would have been formed if it wasn't for the Sex Pistols?

Supposedly. That is essentially what is said in the movie 24 Hour Party People.

Jason 11-30-05 08:39 PM


Originally Posted by ChrisKnudsen
What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously.

Hundreds of them, but you're no more interested in them or what they have to say than I am in the Tits or any other no-talent (your words, not mine) punk band.

B5Erik 11-30-05 10:14 PM


Originally Posted by ChrisKnudsen
What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously.

Are you really that ignorant? Or is it just arrogant?

I listed a few before - including Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Stone Temple Pilots, Anthrax, Garth Brooks...Tons of bands have been influenced by KISS in one way or another, and the list of bands whose guitar players first picked up a guitar because of KISS is HUGE. You may not like KISS, but to even try to deny their impact on Rock and Roll is just plain ignorant.

Obviously, from your dismissal of their live performances, you have never seen them live. The power and specacle of a live KISS show was unequalled in the 70's, and their shows in the 80's and 90's were high energy extravaganzas. Some people - millions, actually - also think that they've written and recorded quite a few Rock and Metal classics.

Have you even heard songs like "100,000 Years," "Deuce," "Strutter," "Black Diamond," or "Firehouse?" And those are just off of their first album.

While KISS may not have been the first band to run around on stage, the were (as I noted on a previous post) one of the first. In fact, by the time they were playing their first live gigs in 1973 the laid back California approach was in vogue (Doobie Brothers, Eagles, etc). Just stand there and play - no stage show, no energy expended by the band, just kick back and play. Some people like that, others find it boring in a live concert environment. KISS found it boring, so they took everything over the top in a blitzkrieg of Rock and Roll - both visual and aural.

Hell, like it or not, KISS influenced 90% of the bands in the L.A. Metal scene of the 80's. Motley Crue, Ratt, Poison, etc, all owed a lot of their styles to KISS in one way or another. (Hell, if you look at the back cover of Motley Crue's Too Fast for Love album they look like KISS Lite.)

You don't have to bash other musical styles to promote and hail the one(s) you like. You can have KISS AND the Sex Pistols in the same hall, you know. They both were influential, and they both made one hell of a mark on Rock and Roll.

There's a stronger argument against the Pistols, though, in that they self destructed almost before they began, and their flame burned out within a year. There is a very strong argument that a one album career shouldn't get you in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, the voters for the Hall disagreed and put the Pistols in. That's fine, but to exclude bands of obvious success and influence just because the voters don't like them is snobbery at it's worst - and the antithesis of Rock and Roll.

atlantamoi 12-01-05 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by ChrisKnudsen
What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously.

The Replacements covered "Black Diamond" on "Let It Be". Damn good cover. Kiss should be in to me, no doubt. I don't really even think it's a question or not. Of course, I detest Kiss in almost every way after their first few albums.

Numanoid 12-01-05 08:52 AM

B5Erik, I think you need to investigate a musical genre called "glam rock" before giving all that credit to KISS.

nodeerforamonth 12-01-05 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by wendersfan
You left out The Fall. :)

Shane McGowan of the Pogues was also at those Sex Pistols shows.

Both KISS and the Sex Pistols are more than deserving of being in the Hall Of Fame. Both were extremely influential. Both created great music.

nodeerforamonth 12-01-05 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by Jason
Why? Because it's one of the few shows they bothered to actually perform at?

"bothered"? They were BANNED! They didn't play clubs under assumed names to be "cool", they did it out of necessity!

When "God Save The Queen" hit "#1", the papers didn't even list a "#1" record that week!

Jason 12-01-05 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by B5Erik
There's a stronger argument against the Pistols, though, in that they self destructed almost before they began, and their flame burned out within a year. There is a very strong argument that a one album career shouldn't get you in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, the voters for the Hall disagreed and put the Pistols in. That's fine, but to exclude bands of obvious success and influence just because the voters don't like them is snobbery at it's worst - and the antithesis of Rock and Roll.

Well said.

B5Erik 12-01-05 08:35 PM


Originally Posted by Numanoid
B5Erik, I think you need to investigate a musical genre called "glam rock" before giving all that credit to KISS.

KISS wasn't really a "glam" band. They were something way outside what those bands were doing. "Glam" of the early 70's featured a very androgynous look and the music was very poppy (kind of a precursor to the late 70's power pop).

KISS looked tough, mean, and scary. Not androgynous (well, there was Paul...). There was no glam equivalent to Gene Simmons. He was Alice Cooper meets Godzilla. Musically, KISS was closer to British bands like The Who, The Move, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Black Sabbath (all big influences on KISS' musical style) than the Glam bands of the early 70's.

KISS didn't invent a whole lot, but neither did Nirvana or The Sex Pistols, or Blondie, or The Rolling Stones for that matter. They just took what was out there, made it bigger, and combined elements that hadn't been combined before. It was this combination that made them stand out from the other bands.

Alice Cooper was a huge influence on KISS, but even so, their stage shows were not very similar. Alice & Company went for the off-Broadway theatrics; KISS went high tech with pyrotechnics and hydraulic lifts. Alice used make-up around his eyes; KISS used Kabuki whiteface and came up with even bigger identifying make-up designs around their eyes. Alice wore boots; KISS wore Slade-esque platforms. Everything with KISS was bigger and bolder. It's up to the individual to decide if that means better or not.

But to dismiss KISS, a band that has had such an enormous impact on the world of Rock and Roll either indicates someone being blinded by personal tastes, or sheer ignorance. (Which, when it comes to KISS, may truly be bliss for some.)

Notice that I'm not saying that bands that KISS critics/detractors have championed should not be in the Hall of Fame, just that KISS and others should ALSO be in for all that they accomplished.

It would be like the Pro Football Hall Of Fame NOT inducting Emmitt Smith because he was never the "best" running back while he played - always 2nd or 3rd best (to Barry Sanders, etc). In the end, Smith retired as the #1 running back of all time based on total yardage, and he will be a first ballot hall of famer.

KISS has more Gold albums than any other American band. They also had a ton of their albums certified Platinum. This wasn't just over a 5 year period, but over 25 years - and if they ever put out a new studio album in the future it may well reach Gold status as well.

I've listed several well respected bands who were influenced by KISS, I've explained how their live stage shows changed Rock and Roll concert presentations forever, and the fact that they have had a 30+ year career is just the icing on the cake.

It's a joke that they weren't inducted in 2000.

KISS, Rush, Deep Purple, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica - these are all bands that should go in over the next 5 years alongside bands of different Rock sub-genres that have been mentioned on this thread.

If they don't then the Hall will continue to be a joke to a hell of a lot of people.

Brain Stew 12-02-05 12:09 AM

KISS certainly needs to be in the hall. I think this and I am an alternative fan.

As for Deep Purple or Rush, I'm not sure ;)...

mike harnish 12-02-05 10:00 AM

KISS?! Weren't they the inspiration for Spinal Tap? Sure could've been, anyway.

Chrisedge 12-02-05 10:17 AM

KISS, Rush, Deep Purple, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Metallica ALL COMPLETELY deserve to be in. If you think not, you need to look and see who is been already inducted.

Here is the complete list:

1986

performers
Chuck Berry
James Brown
Ray Charles
Sam Cooke
Fats Domino
The Everly Brothers
Buddy Holly
Jerry Lee Lewis
Elvis Presley
Little Richard

early influences
Robert Johnson
Jimmie Rodgers
Jimmy Yancey

lifetime achievement
John Hammond

non-performers
Alan Freed
Sam Phillips


1987

performers
The Coasters
Eddie Cochran
Bo Diddley
Aretha Franklin
Marvin Gaye
Bill Haley
B. B. King
Clyde McPhatter
Ricky Nelson
Roy Orbison
Carl Perkins
Smokey Robinson
Big Joe Turner
Muddy Waters
Jackie Wilson

early influences
Louis Jordan
T-Bone Walker
Hank Williams

non-performers
Leonard Chess
Ahmet Ertegun
Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller
Jerry Wexler


1988

performers
The Beach Boys
The Beatles
The Drifters
Bob Dylan
The Supremes

early influences
Woody Guthrie
Lead Belly
Les Paul

non-performers
Berry Gordy, Jr


1989

performers
Dion
Otis Redding
The Rolling Stones
The Temptations
Stevie Wonder

early influences
The Inkspots
Bessie Smith
The Soul Stirrers

non-performers
Phil Spector


1990

performers
Hank Ballard
Bobby Darin
The Four Seasons
The Four Tops
The Kinks
The Platters
Simon and Garfunkel
The Who

early influences
Louis Armstrong
Charlie Christian
Ma Rainey

non-performers
Gerry Goffin and Carole King
Holland, Dozier and Holland


1991

performers
LaVern Baker
The Byrds
John Lee Hooker
The Impressions
Wilson Pickett
Jimmy Reed
Ike and Tina Turner

early influences
Howlin' Wolf

lifetime achievement
Nesuhi Ertegun

non-performers
Dave Bartholomew
Ralph Bass


1992

performers
Bobby "Blue" Bland
Booker T. and the M.G.'s
Johnny Cash
The Isley Brothers
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
Sam and Dave
The Yardbirds

early influences
Elmore James
Professor Longhair

non-performers
Leo Fender
Bill Graham
Doc Pomus

1993

performers
Ruth Brown
Cream
Creedence Clearwater Revival
The Doors
Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers
Etta James
Van Morrison
Sly and the Family Stone

early influences
Dinah Washington

non-performers
Dick Clark
Milt Gabler


1994

performers
The Animals
The Band
Duane Eddy
The Grateful Dead
Elton John
John Lennon
Bob Marley
Rod Stewart

early influences
Willie Dixon

non-performers
Johnny Otis


1995

performers
The Allman Brothers Band
Al Green
Janis Joplin
Led Zeppelin
Martha and the Vandellas
Neil Young
Frank Zappa

early influences
The Orioles

non-performers
Paul Ackerman


1996

performers
David Bowie
Gladys Knight and the Pips
Jefferson Airplane
Little Willie John
Pink Floyd
The Shirelles
The Velvet Underground

early influences
Pete Seeger

non-performers
Tom Donahue


1997

performers
The (Young) Rascals
The Bee Gees
Buffalo Springfield
Crosby, Stills and Nash
The Jackson Five
Joni Mitchell
Parliament-Funkadelic

early influences
Mahalia Jackson
Bill Monroe

non-performers
Syd Nathan


1998

performers
The Eagles
Fleetwood Mac
The Mamas and the Papas
Lloyd Price
Santana
Gene Vincent

early influences
Jelly Roll Morton

non-performers
Allen Toussaint


1999

performers
Billy Joel
Curtis Mayfield
Paul McCartney
Del Shannon
Dusty Springfield
Bruce Springsteen
The Staple Singers

early influences
Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys
Charles Brown

non-performers
George Martin


2000

performers
Eric Clapton
Earth, Wind & Fire
Lovin' Spoonful
The Moonglows
Bonnie Raitt
James Taylor

early influences
Nat "King" Cole
Billie Holiday

sidemen
Hal Blaine
King Curtis
James Jamerson
Scotty Moore
Earl Palmer

non-performers
Clive Davis


2001

performers
Aerosmith
Solomon Burke
The Flamingos
Michael Jackson
Queen
Paul Simon
Steely Dan
Ritchie Valens

sidemen
James Burton
Johnnie Johnson

non-performers
Chris Blackwell


2002

performers
Isaac Hayes
Brenda Lee
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
Gene Pitney
Ramones
Talking Heads

sidemen
Chet Atkins

non-performers
Jim Stewart


2003

performers
AC/DC
The Clash
Elvis Costello & the Attractions
The Police
Righteous Brothers

sidemen
Benny Benjamin
Floyd Cramer
Steve Douglas

non-performers
Mo Ostin


2004

performers
Jackson Browne
The Dells
George Harrison
Prince
Bob Seger
Traffic
ZZ Top

lifetime achievement
Jann S. Wenner


2005

performers
Buddy Guy
The O'Jays
The Pretenders
Percy Sledge
U2

lifetime achievement
Frank Barsalona
Seymour Stein

nodeerforamonth 12-02-05 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by mike harnish
KISS?! Weren't they the inspiration for Spinal Tap? Sure could've been, anyway.

ALL bands were the inspiration for Spinal Tap. If I had a nickel for every band that claimed in an interview that "Spinal Tap could've been written about our band", I'd be a very wealthy man.

mike harnish 12-03-05 09:53 AM

Yes, but, frankly, I meant the Spinal Tap comparison as an insult. Spinal Tap is a parody, a joke, and, to me, so is KISS. But, then, to each his/her own.

Jason 12-03-05 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by mike harnish
But, then, to each his/her own.

No no no no no. How can the Internet continue to function if people are allowed to have their own opinions?

nodeerforamonth 12-03-05 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by mike harnish
Yes, but, frankly, I meant the Spinal Tap comparison as an insult. Spinal Tap is a parody, a joke, and, to me, so is KISS. But, then, to each his/her own.

Keep in mind you are replying to a guy who has a knob that goes to "11" tattooed on his arm!

B5Erik 12-03-05 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by mike harnish
Yes, but, frankly, I meant the Spinal Tap comparison as an insult. Spinal Tap is a parody, a joke, and, to me, so is KISS. But, then, to each his/her own.

You know what I've found? Most people who think KISS is a joke tend not to have heard much of their music - especially their early stuff from before they hit it big. It's a real combination of American and British hard rock styles - kind of a Mid-Atlantic sound if you will. Seriously, If you like The Stones, or Zeppelin, or The Who, etc, I'd check out songs like "100,000 Years," "Watchin' You," "Deuce," "Hotter Than Hell," and "Black Diamond," - or if you like more modern grunge and heavy alternative music try their mid 90's stuff - "Jungle," "Master and Slave," "Rain," "Hate," and "Childhood's End," before passing final judgment. (Especially "Childhood's End," as I think it would be a revelation for a lot of people.)

But I appreciate your willingness to accept that different people have different tastes and that it's OK to like different bands and champion their causes. Which is why if after listening to those songs listed above you still thought KISS was a joke I'd still think your opinion was valid. Hell, especially after listening to those songs if you still had that opinion I'd say, "To each his or her own," since at that point you would have listened to what I consider to be some of KISS' best material.

Too many people hear "Rock and Roll All Nite" a zillion times on the radio and think that's all there is to KISS - which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Josh-da-man 12-03-05 02:30 PM

Does Spinal Tap have a shot at getting put in the RARHOF?

I think they should; they'll be eligible in '09 won't they?

The Infidel 12-03-05 03:11 PM

Rush was mentioned a couple times on this page, and I agree they should be in the HOF. Hell, they should have already been in! There's a ton of reasons all going through my head, but the one that comes up first is pure and simple influence. Rush made a career out of doing it their own way, every time, on every album. Because of a lack of radio play in their early years, they built a huge following on two things: word of mouth, and the sheer power of their music. Rush's style may not have influenced other artists/bands like more popular artists from years past, but maintaining that style has kept them as a unique force in a world of corporate cardboard cutout rock. You also can't deny the individual influence its members have had on young musicians the last couple decades. What bass player or drummer can honestly say they weren't influenced on their respective instruments by Geddy Lee or Neil Peart?

A loyal following, second only to perhaps the Grateful Dead (and perhaps the KISS Army), has spoken:

"Let Rush in."

Applejack 12-03-05 03:35 PM


Originally Posted by B5Erik
You know what I've found? Most people who think KISS is a joke tend not to have heard much of their music - especially their early stuff from before they hit it big. It's a real combination of American and British hard rock styles - kind of a Mid-Atlantic sound if you will. Seriously, If you like The Stones, or Zeppelin, or The Who, etc, I'd check out songs like "100,000 Years," "Watchin' You," "Deuce," "Hotter Than Hell," and "Black Diamond," - or if you like more modern grunge and heavy alternative music try their mid 90's stuff - "Jungle," "Master and Slave," "Rain," "Hate," and "Childhood's End," before passing final judgment. (Especially "Childhood's End," as I think it would be a revelation for a lot of people.)


Most people who really hate kiss really haven't listened to them that much, and most of the hate directed towards them (in my opinion anyway) is more because of Gene's constant commercialization of the band and trying to put their name on everything. Combine that with the fact that they have tried to get in on nearly every pop trend in the past 30 years (Disco= Dynasty) (90s grunge = Carnival of Souls), and people just can't stand them.

IMO, they should be in there for Love Gun/Rock & Roll Over/ Kiss/ Destroyer and Alive I. Those albums are all pretty good.

Other than that, IMO, they are pretty hit and miss, with mostly miss (I hate all of the solo albums, Dynasty, Unmasked, and The Elder) and the other albums are decent/mediocre to poor for the most part IMO.

I do, however, think that Revenge is one of their better albums in the past 20 years or so

They deserve to be in, but they aren't a very exciting choice for most people. Most people who haven't heard much of Kiss' catalog should at least listen to Double Platinum if nothing else.


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