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2006 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

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2006 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

Old 11-28-05, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Coral
I don't care how influential their album was, one album is not enough to warrant an induction into the HOF.
Apparently, you're wrong.

And this is the Rock and Roll Hall of FAME. The Sex Pistols marked a complete change in the direction of rock music, and are a significant historical band in that regard. Of course they weren't the first nor the best, but they were the pivot around which the mainstream swung at that time. A rock and Roll Hall of Fame without them is ridiculous.

I'm still trying to get my head around Miles Davis.
Old 11-28-05, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
I'm still trying to get my head around Miles Davis.
Same here. I'm a big fan, but that seems odd (even considering his albums "In a Silent Way" and onward).

And I'm confident in saying that if there's one thing Miles Davis wouldn't give a shit about, it's this.
Old 11-28-05, 09:56 PM
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OK, here's the thing.

The Sex Pistols - one real album - are in. KISS - 30+ albums, millions sold, hundreds of bands with albums released on major labels influenced by them, the band that changed the live concert presentation - is not.

What planet are these voters living on?

You can legitimately argue that The Sex Pistols belong in the HOF, but not before KISS. KISS changed a lot more of the Rock and Roll landscape than the Pistols did - and they did it for a lot longer, with a hell of a lot more success.

This just shows the biases that the voters have against populist music. I mean, Miles Fucking Davis? In the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame? He was BRILLIANT, but he was a JAZZ artist, period. Why not put in Mozart while you're at it? Come on!

It's nice to see them allow Black Sabbath and Lynyrd Skynyrd into their precious hall, but bands like KISS, Alice Cooper, Deep Purple, Rush, Van Halen, Iron Maiden and others are deserving as well - and should have been inducted years ago (with the exception of Maiden, who are in their first year of "eligibility").

Hell, Maiden could be a benchmark as well. They are a band that at their height played multiple sold out shows at venues that "bigger" bands had trouble selling out once - and without much airplay. Maiden influenced thousands of bands, and set the standard for Heavy Metal that is still the standard today. Hell, I'm starting to see current high school kids wearing Iron Maiden T-Shirts - their influence still remains strong today. If the Sex Pistols are in, Iron Maiden MUST go in, or it is just further proof of what a joke the hall is.
Old 11-29-05, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
OK, here's the thing.

The Sex Pistols - one real album - are in. KISS - 30+ albums, millions sold, hundreds of bands with albums released on major labels influenced by them, the band that changed the live concert presentation - is not.

What planet are these voters living on?
A planet where the Pistols released one classic album, and KISS have released a long and sordid career's worth of shit.

ETA: As far as Miles Davis, he invented and popularized jazz/rock fusion. I think that warrants induction.
Old 11-29-05, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
KISS changed a lot more of the Rock and Roll landscape than the Pistols did
How?
Old 11-29-05, 08:29 AM
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Not that I usually care about the Hall of Fame, but it's nice to see Black Sabbath and Lynyrd Skynyrd put in.
Old 11-29-05, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
OK, here's the thing.

The Sex Pistols - one real album - are in. KISS - 30+ albums, millions sold, hundreds of bands with albums released on major labels influenced by them, the band that changed the live concert presentation - is not.

What planet are these voters living on?
Maybe it's not about number of records sold?
Old 11-29-05, 12:47 PM
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I'm wondering if they inducted Miles to open up the playing field wider because let's face it, the next couple decades it's going to get harder and harder to find worthy inductees. From the 80's? 90s? Truly great top level bands in the league of the Stones, the Who, U2, The Kinks etc. They ain't there.
Old 11-29-05, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cungar
I'm wondering if they inducted Miles to open up the playing field wider because let's face it, the next couple decades it's going to get harder and harder to find worthy inductees. From the 80's? 90s? Truly great top level bands in the league of the Stones, the Who, U2, The Kinks etc. They ain't there.
Yeah, cause all those bands like R.E.M., The Pixies, The Replacements, The Smiths, Joy Division, Gang of Four, Sonic Youth, Hüsker Dü, and the Stone Roses sucked.
Old 11-29-05, 02:20 PM
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The New York Dolls should be in before KISS. After all, they were a big influence on KISS.
Old 11-29-05, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollowgen
that's all i'm getting at. i love Nevermind..., and don't deny it's importance. we're all allowed to have different opinions, right?
Are you talking about Nirvana? They released three full studio albums. In addition to a couple live ones and another one full of b-sides and rarities. And a box set of rarities. They're far from a one album band!
Old 11-29-05, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Yeah, cause all those bands like R.E.M., The Pixies, The Replacements, The Smiths, Joy Division, Gang of Four, Sonic Youth, Hüsker Dü, and the Stone Roses sucked.
Well, R.E.M. didn't...
Old 11-29-05, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cungar
I'm wondering if they inducted Miles to open up the playing field wider because let's face it, the next couple decades it's going to get harder and harder to find worthy inductees. From the 80's? 90s? Truly great top level bands in the league of the Stones, the Who, U2, The Kinks etc. They ain't there.
Well, if they hadn't been in such a big hurry to put all their personal favorites in right away, they wouldn't have this "problem". Look at the first year's worth of inductions. In one year, they inducted:

Chuck Berry
James Brown
Ray Charles
Sam Cooke
Fats Domino
The Everly Brothers
Buddy Holly
Jerry Lee Lewis
Elvis Presley
Little Richard

Pretty much every inductee on this list could have carried the entire program for the year. I know they were just starting out, but this is overkill.

However, I don't think they inducted Davis for this reason. For some insane reason, they like to think that the rock and roll "attitude" pervades every aspect of music. I'm wondering how long before a non-musician is nominated in the main category. After all, if Miles Davis can represent "rock and roll", can't Quentin Tarentino? Lenny Bruce? Bruce Lee? Eric Cartman?
Old 11-29-05, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
A planet where the Pistols released one classic album, and KISS have released a long and sordid career's worth of shit.
The Pistols released one classic album? Classic to some, crap to others.

KISS could always carry a tune better than the Pistols ever could - and they influenced more bands, too. In every measure - influence on other bands, changing the Rock landscape, album and ticket sales - KISS far outshines the Sex Pistols. That's not to minimize what the Pistols did, but if we're having this conversation you obviously either weren't around when KISS was at their height, or you have just chosen to disregard all that they accomplished based on personal tastes.

Originally Posted by Numanoid

[Quote: Originally Posted by B5Erik
KISS changed a lot more of the Rock and Roll landscape than the Pistols did]

How?
KISS completely changed how Rock concerts were presented live. They took the low tech theatrics of Alice Cooper and made it high tech. KISS introduced fireworks, hydraulic lifts, and most of the things that are considered pre-requisites for live Rock concert presentations today. KISS was one of the first bands to actually MOVE a lot on stage and work up a sweat.

Beyond that their musical influence extends far beyond the obvious bands and into others that you wouldn't expect (including Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Garth Brooks, as well as some of the more obvious bands like Skid Row, Anthrax, and Motley Crue).

(And, The New York Dolls weren't as much of an influence on KISS as many have made them out to be. KISS tried the Dolls approach very early on, and it didn't work for them, so they came up with their own thing - both musically and visually.)

It's not just about the number of records and tickets sold - but that is a part, and a part that KISS excelled at.

It's clear that there are a lot of people who just don't know how big KISS was (and still is to a degree) not only in terms of their commercial success, but in terms of their musical quality and their influence on literally hundreds of bands who have recorded albums for major labels (and thousands of bands who wanted to).

I don't like a lot of bands that are in the Hall of Fame, but I don't argue their place there. KISS has EARNED a place there, and the fact that they, along with Rush, Deep Purple, Van Halen, Alice Cooper, Ted Nugent, and others aren't in there is a joke. A very bad one.
Old 11-29-05, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Yeah, cause all those bands like R.E.M., The Pixies, The Replacements, The Smiths, Joy Division, Gang of Four, Sonic Youth, Hüsker Dü, and the Stone Roses sucked.
I could see R.E.M., The Smiths, The Cure, and a few others in the Hall, and, as I stated before, bands like Iron Maiden, Metallica, and Megadeth would have to be inducted IF the hall is worth a damn.

Like KISS, Iron Maiden's influence was huge. They changed the sound of Heavy Metal - love it or hate it, it doesn't matter. It was a hugely successful sub-genre of Rock, and Maiden is still considered by a huge number of Metal fans to be the best Metal band ever - over Sabbath, over Metallica, over Judas Priest. Maiden was, and still is, a BRILLIANT live band. AMAZINGLY good musicianship, great theatrics, and a ton of energy expended on stage by the band members themselves made for arguably the best Heavy Metal concerts ever.

Maiden sold out 4 shows in 4 consecutive nights at the Long Beach arena in 1985. 48,000 tickets sold - with very little radio airplay. 2 years later they played two sold out shows there. They have been able to sell concert tickets better than bands with 2 or 3 times their record sales for over 2 decades. In 2003 they still sold out the Long Beach Arena and nearly sold out Irvine Meadows as well - with NO airplay in the area at all! They also have more than enough Gold and Platinum to have earned their way into the Hall.

KISS and Iron Maiden are my benchmarks for the Hall to see if it has any credibility at all, or if it's just a tool for the snobby "artsy" folks to celebrate only what they like and exclude everything else. Rock and Roll is music for the masses, not just for the elite snobs. Right now the Hall is for the snobs.
Old 11-30-05, 11:07 AM
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KISS definitely deserves to be in there.
Old 11-30-05, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
KISS completely changed how Rock concerts were presented live. They took the low tech theatrics of Alice Cooper and made it high tech. KISS introduced fireworks, hydraulic lifts, and most of the things that are considered pre-requisites for live Rock concert presentations today. KISS was one of the
No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. Have you never heard of The Who? They didn't need the invasion of Normandy going on onstage to create excitement, they did it with their playing and onstage charisma. KISS has no charisma unless they put on makeup.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but a single concert of the Sex Pistols (Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall, June 4, 1976) is probably more imortant and influential than every show KISS ever performed, in toto.
Old 11-30-05, 01:35 PM
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Maybe Kiss would already be in if they had stopped in 1979.

Glad to see the Sex Pistols in. I really find it odd that some people don't see how that one album is quite enough.
Old 11-30-05, 02:01 PM
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I'm glad to see the Sex Pistols finally getting in.


People I knew were angry at them for even daring to exist at the time. They were dividing people then, and still are after all these years.
Old 11-30-05, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
KISS and Iron Maiden are my benchmarks for the Hall to see if it has any credibility at all, or if it's just a tool for the snobby "artsy" folks to celebrate only what they like and exclude everything else. Rock and Roll is music for the masses, not just for the elite snobs. Right now the Hall is for the snobs.
While I agree with your general point, were this lot "artsy", the so-called RnRHoF would include, in addition to Rush, the likes of Roxy Music, Yes, Genesis, Peter Gabriel, King Crimson...
Old 11-30-05, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Yeah, cause all those bands like R.E.M., The Pixies, The Replacements, The Smiths, Joy Division, Gang of Four, Sonic Youth, Hüsker Dü, and the Stone Roses sucked.
Originally Posted by Filmmaker
Well, R.E.M. didn't...


I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Each of those bands, in their prime, were heads and tails better than U2 was in their prime.

Maybe you need to broaden your musical spectrum.
Old 11-30-05, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by auto


I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Each of those bands, in their prime, were heads and tails better than U2 was in their prime.

Maybe you need to broaden your musical spectrum.

Old 11-30-05, 04:15 PM
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KISS may not be the best songwriters or muscians but they definately shook things up doing something that had never been done before. Never listened to the Sex Pistols, don't have an opinion. Pretty much all the pioneers of the 50s and 60s are in already. i think alot of the classic rockers from the 70s will still get in. Van Halen is a shoo in eventually. Same with Alice Cooper. Even Ted Nugent has a chance. I don't think a lot of popular bands from the time will ever make it :Styx, Kansas, Journey, REO, BOC, Deep Purple. As for the 80's Mellencamp and Bon Jovi will probably get there. Nirvana is a no-brainer. I'd like to see them start leaning toward more individuals like Rory Gallagher and Johnny Winter. Or people who have been around a long time solo and in different bands for the collective work like Greg Lake(King Crimson, ELP, Asia) or Paul Rogers(Free, Bad Company Firm) whereas the bands themselves may not warrant induction. Also they should induct albums.
Old 11-30-05, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
And I hate to burst your bubble, but a single concert of the Sex Pistols (Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall, June 4, 1976) is probably more imortant and influential than every show KISS ever performed, in toto.
Why? Because it's one of the few shows they bothered to actually perform at?
Old 11-30-05, 06:39 PM
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Alice Cooper has been eligible for quite awhile now and to my recollection has yet to even appear on the finalists ballot, so don't hold your breath waiting for that one. The only way Ted Nugent will get in is to buy a ticket. Over the next 10 years Mellencamp, REM, Metallica, Run DMC (first rap act to get in guaranteed), The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Madonna, The Smiths, The Replacements, The Pixies, The Beastie Boys and Guns N' Roses are some of the bands I see being inducted.

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