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KISS definitely deserves to be in there.
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Originally Posted by B5Erik
KISS completely changed how Rock concerts were presented live. They took the low tech theatrics of Alice Cooper and made it high tech. KISS introduced fireworks, hydraulic lifts, and most of the things that are considered pre-requisites for live Rock concert presentations today. KISS was one of the
And I hate to burst your bubble, but a single concert of the Sex Pistols (Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall, June 4, 1976) is probably more imortant and influential than every show KISS ever performed, <i>in toto</i>. |
Maybe Kiss would already be in if they had stopped in 1979.
Glad to see the Sex Pistols in. I really find it odd that some people don't see how that one album is quite enough. |
I'm glad to see the Sex Pistols finally getting in.
People I knew were angry at them for even daring to exist at the time. They were dividing people then, and still are after all these years. :up: |
Originally Posted by B5Erik
KISS and Iron Maiden are my benchmarks for the Hall to see if it has any credibility at all, or if it's just a tool for the snobby "artsy" folks to celebrate only what they like and exclude everything else. Rock and Roll is music for the masses, not just for the elite snobs. Right now the Hall is for the snobs.
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
Yeah, cause all those bands like R.E.M., The Pixies, The Replacements, The Smiths, Joy Division, Gang of Four, Sonic Youth, Hüsker Dü, and the Stone Roses sucked. -ohbfrank-
Originally Posted by Filmmaker
Well, R.E.M. didn't...
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Each of those bands, in their prime, were heads and tails better than U2 was in their prime. Maybe you need to broaden your musical spectrum. :shrug: |
Originally Posted by auto
:lol: rotfl :lol:
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Each of those bands, in their prime, were heads and tails better than U2 was in their prime. Maybe you need to broaden your musical spectrum. :shrug: :up: |
KISS may not be the best songwriters or muscians but they definately shook things up doing something that had never been done before. Never listened to the Sex Pistols, don't have an opinion. Pretty much all the pioneers of the 50s and 60s are in already. i think alot of the classic rockers from the 70s will still get in. Van Halen is a shoo in eventually. Same with Alice Cooper. Even Ted Nugent has a chance. I don't think a lot of popular bands from the time will ever make it :Styx, Kansas, Journey, REO, BOC, Deep Purple. As for the 80's Mellencamp and Bon Jovi will probably get there. Nirvana is a no-brainer. I'd like to see them start leaning toward more individuals like Rory Gallagher and Johnny Winter. Or people who have been around a long time solo and in different bands for the collective work like Greg Lake(King Crimson, ELP, Asia) or Paul Rogers(Free, Bad Company Firm) whereas the bands themselves may not warrant induction. Also they should induct albums.
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
And I hate to burst your bubble, but a single concert of the Sex Pistols (Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall, June 4, 1976) is probably more imortant and influential than every show KISS ever performed, <i>in toto</i>.
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Alice Cooper has been eligible for quite awhile now and to my recollection has yet to even appear on the finalists ballot, so don't hold your breath waiting for that one. The only way Ted Nugent will get in is to buy a ticket. Over the next 10 years Mellencamp, REM, Metallica, Run DMC (first rap act to get in guaranteed), The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Madonna, The Smiths, The Replacements, The Pixies, The Beastie Boys and Guns N' Roses are some of the bands I see being inducted.
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Originally Posted by Jason
Why? Because it's one of the few shows they bothered to actually perform at?
In America it's hard to understand this, because raves didn't really become mainstream until around 95-97 while in the UK raves were old hat by 89. Also, a little band known as The Smiths ;) were supposedly there as well as the Buzzcocks. I've said before that the 1980s acts are going to be hard for the RRHoF. Do they go with the alternative acts or the more popular metal acts? Personally I prefer the former more. But who knows what will happen? |
Originally Posted by auto
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Each of those bands, in their prime, were heads and tails better than U2 was in their prime.
Maybe you need to broaden your musical spectrum. :shrug: |
What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously. The Sex Pistols are pretty much the symbol of punk rock, at least, to the eyes of the mainstream. Think of all the punk rock bands that these no-knowledge muscians inspired. In just one year after, punk rock flourished across the world with literally hundreds of thousands of bands. A lot of them would fade into obscurity and be bootlegged 20 years down the line on Killed by Death sort of line comps but who can not smile to something like the Notsensiables' "I'm in Love with Margeret Thatcher" or the Tits' "Daddy is my Pusher." Anyone and everyone that didn't know how to play their instruments were inspired to play.
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Originally Posted by Brain Stew
That concert is the one that caused quite afew Mancunians to start bands. Most notably Joy Division, who went on to become New Order and almost singlehandedly finance a record label, influencial night club and the "rave culture."
In America it's hard to understand this, because raves didn't really become mainstream until around 95-97 while in the UK raves were old hat by 89. Also, a little band known as The Smiths ;) were supposedly there as well as the Buzzcocks. I've said before that the 1980s acts are going to be hard for the RRHoF. Do they go with the alternative acts or the more popular metal acts? Personally I prefer the former more. But who knows what will happen? But otherwise, nice job of answering a question probably not deserving of an answer. |
Originally Posted by Brain Stew
That concert is the one that caused quite afew Mancunians to start bands. Most notably Joy Division, who went on to become New Order and almost singlehandedly finance a record label, influencial night club and the "rave culture."
In America it's hard to understand this, because raves didn't really become mainstream until around 95-97 while in the UK raves were old hat by 89. Also, a little band known as The Smiths ;) were supposedly there as well as the Buzzcocks. |
Originally Posted by Jason
So, none of these bands would have been formed if it wasn't for the Sex Pistols?
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Originally Posted by ChrisKnudsen
What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously.
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Originally Posted by ChrisKnudsen
What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously.
I listed a few before - including Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Stone Temple Pilots, Anthrax, Garth Brooks...Tons of bands have been influenced by KISS in one way or another, and the list of bands whose guitar players first picked up a guitar because of KISS is HUGE. You may not like KISS, but to even try to deny their impact on Rock and Roll is just plain ignorant. Obviously, from your dismissal of their live performances, you have never seen them live. The power and specacle of a live KISS show was unequalled in the 70's, and their shows in the 80's and 90's were high energy extravaganzas. Some people - millions, actually - also think that they've written and recorded quite a few Rock and Metal classics. Have you even heard songs like "100,000 Years," "Deuce," "Strutter," "Black Diamond," or "Firehouse?" And those are just off of their first album. While KISS may not have been the first band to run around on stage, the were (as I noted on a previous post) one of the first. In fact, by the time they were playing their first live gigs in 1973 the laid back California approach was in vogue (Doobie Brothers, Eagles, etc). Just stand there and play - no stage show, no energy expended by the band, just kick back and play. Some people like that, others find it boring in a live concert environment. KISS found it boring, so they took everything over the top in a blitzkrieg of Rock and Roll - both visual and aural. Hell, like it or not, KISS influenced 90% of the bands in the L.A. Metal scene of the 80's. Motley Crue, Ratt, Poison, etc, all owed a lot of their styles to KISS in one way or another. (Hell, if you look at the back cover of Motley Crue's Too Fast for Love album they look like KISS Lite.) You don't have to bash other musical styles to promote and hail the one(s) you like. You can have KISS AND the Sex Pistols in the same hall, you know. They both were influential, and they both made one hell of a mark on Rock and Roll. There's a stronger argument against the Pistols, though, in that they self destructed almost before they began, and their flame burned out within a year. There is a very strong argument that a one album career shouldn't get you in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, the voters for the Hall disagreed and put the Pistols in. That's fine, but to exclude bands of obvious success and influence just because the voters don't like them is snobbery at it's worst - and the antithesis of Rock and Roll. |
Originally Posted by ChrisKnudsen
What bands have been influenced by Kiss have been good? Seriously.
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B5Erik, I think you need to investigate a musical genre called "glam rock" before giving all that credit to KISS.
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Originally Posted by wendersfan
You left out The Fall. :)
Both KISS and the Sex Pistols are more than deserving of being in the Hall Of Fame. Both were extremely influential. Both created great music. |
Originally Posted by Jason
Why? Because it's one of the few shows they bothered to actually perform at?
When "God Save The Queen" hit "#1", the papers didn't even list a "#1" record that week! |
Originally Posted by B5Erik
There's a stronger argument against the Pistols, though, in that they self destructed almost before they began, and their flame burned out within a year. There is a very strong argument that a one album career shouldn't get you in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, the voters for the Hall disagreed and put the Pistols in. That's fine, but to exclude bands of obvious success and influence just because the voters don't like them is snobbery at it's worst - and the antithesis of Rock and Roll.
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
B5Erik, I think you need to investigate a musical genre called "glam rock" before giving all that credit to KISS.
KISS looked tough, mean, and scary. Not androgynous (well, there was Paul...). There was no glam equivalent to Gene Simmons. He was Alice Cooper meets Godzilla. Musically, KISS was closer to British bands like The Who, The Move, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Black Sabbath (all big influences on KISS' musical style) than the Glam bands of the early 70's. KISS didn't invent a whole lot, but neither did Nirvana or The Sex Pistols, or Blondie, or The Rolling Stones for that matter. They just took what was out there, made it bigger, and combined elements that hadn't been combined before. It was this combination that made them stand out from the other bands. Alice Cooper was a huge influence on KISS, but even so, their stage shows were not very similar. Alice & Company went for the off-Broadway theatrics; KISS went high tech with pyrotechnics and hydraulic lifts. Alice used make-up around his eyes; KISS used Kabuki whiteface and came up with even bigger identifying make-up designs around their eyes. Alice wore boots; KISS wore Slade-esque platforms. Everything with KISS was bigger and bolder. It's up to the individual to decide if that means better or not. But to dismiss KISS, a band that has had such an enormous impact on the world of Rock and Roll either indicates someone being blinded by personal tastes, or sheer ignorance. (Which, when it comes to KISS, may truly be bliss for some.) Notice that I'm not saying that bands that KISS critics/detractors have championed should not be in the Hall of Fame, just that KISS and others should ALSO be in for all that they accomplished. It would be like the Pro Football Hall Of Fame NOT inducting Emmitt Smith because he was never the "best" running back while he played - always 2nd or 3rd best (to Barry Sanders, etc). In the end, Smith retired as the #1 running back of all time based on total yardage, and he will be a first ballot hall of famer. KISS has more Gold albums than any other American band. They also had a ton of their albums certified Platinum. This wasn't just over a 5 year period, but over 25 years - and if they ever put out a new studio album in the future it may well reach Gold status as well. I've listed several well respected bands who were influenced by KISS, I've explained how their live stage shows changed Rock and Roll concert presentations forever, and the fact that they have had a 30+ year career is just the icing on the cake. It's a joke that they weren't inducted in 2000. KISS, Rush, Deep Purple, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica - these are all bands that should go in over the next 5 years alongside bands of different Rock sub-genres that have been mentioned on this thread. If they don't then the Hall will continue to be a joke to a hell of a lot of people. |
KISS certainly needs to be in the hall. I think this and I am an alternative fan.
As for Deep Purple or Rush, I'm not sure ;)... |
KISS?! Weren't they the inspiration for Spinal Tap? Sure could've been, anyway.
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KISS, Rush, Deep Purple, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Metallica ALL COMPLETELY deserve to be in. If you think not, you need to look and see who is been already inducted.
Here is the complete list: 1986 performers Chuck Berry James Brown Ray Charles Sam Cooke Fats Domino The Everly Brothers Buddy Holly Jerry Lee Lewis Elvis Presley Little Richard early influences Robert Johnson Jimmie Rodgers Jimmy Yancey lifetime achievement John Hammond non-performers Alan Freed Sam Phillips 1987 performers The Coasters Eddie Cochran Bo Diddley Aretha Franklin Marvin Gaye Bill Haley B. B. King Clyde McPhatter Ricky Nelson Roy Orbison Carl Perkins Smokey Robinson Big Joe Turner Muddy Waters Jackie Wilson early influences Louis Jordan T-Bone Walker Hank Williams non-performers Leonard Chess Ahmet Ertegun Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller Jerry Wexler 1988 performers The Beach Boys The Beatles The Drifters Bob Dylan The Supremes early influences Woody Guthrie Lead Belly Les Paul non-performers Berry Gordy, Jr 1989 performers Dion Otis Redding The Rolling Stones The Temptations Stevie Wonder early influences The Inkspots Bessie Smith The Soul Stirrers non-performers Phil Spector 1990 performers Hank Ballard Bobby Darin The Four Seasons The Four Tops The Kinks The Platters Simon and Garfunkel The Who early influences Louis Armstrong Charlie Christian Ma Rainey non-performers Gerry Goffin and Carole King Holland, Dozier and Holland 1991 performers LaVern Baker The Byrds John Lee Hooker The Impressions Wilson Pickett Jimmy Reed Ike and Tina Turner early influences Howlin' Wolf lifetime achievement Nesuhi Ertegun non-performers Dave Bartholomew Ralph Bass 1992 performers Bobby "Blue" Bland Booker T. and the M.G.'s Johnny Cash The Isley Brothers The Jimi Hendrix Experience Sam and Dave The Yardbirds early influences Elmore James Professor Longhair non-performers Leo Fender Bill Graham Doc Pomus 1993 performers Ruth Brown Cream Creedence Clearwater Revival The Doors Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers Etta James Van Morrison Sly and the Family Stone early influences Dinah Washington non-performers Dick Clark Milt Gabler 1994 performers The Animals The Band Duane Eddy The Grateful Dead Elton John John Lennon Bob Marley Rod Stewart early influences Willie Dixon non-performers Johnny Otis 1995 performers The Allman Brothers Band Al Green Janis Joplin Led Zeppelin Martha and the Vandellas Neil Young Frank Zappa early influences The Orioles non-performers Paul Ackerman 1996 performers David Bowie Gladys Knight and the Pips Jefferson Airplane Little Willie John Pink Floyd The Shirelles The Velvet Underground early influences Pete Seeger non-performers Tom Donahue 1997 performers The (Young) Rascals The Bee Gees Buffalo Springfield Crosby, Stills and Nash The Jackson Five Joni Mitchell Parliament-Funkadelic early influences Mahalia Jackson Bill Monroe non-performers Syd Nathan 1998 performers The Eagles Fleetwood Mac The Mamas and the Papas Lloyd Price Santana Gene Vincent early influences Jelly Roll Morton non-performers Allen Toussaint 1999 performers Billy Joel Curtis Mayfield Paul McCartney Del Shannon Dusty Springfield Bruce Springsteen The Staple Singers early influences Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys Charles Brown non-performers George Martin 2000 performers Eric Clapton Earth, Wind & Fire Lovin' Spoonful The Moonglows Bonnie Raitt James Taylor early influences Nat "King" Cole Billie Holiday sidemen Hal Blaine King Curtis James Jamerson Scotty Moore Earl Palmer non-performers Clive Davis 2001 performers Aerosmith Solomon Burke The Flamingos Michael Jackson Queen Paul Simon Steely Dan Ritchie Valens sidemen James Burton Johnnie Johnson non-performers Chris Blackwell 2002 performers Isaac Hayes Brenda Lee Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers Gene Pitney Ramones Talking Heads sidemen Chet Atkins non-performers Jim Stewart 2003 performers AC/DC The Clash Elvis Costello & the Attractions The Police Righteous Brothers sidemen Benny Benjamin Floyd Cramer Steve Douglas non-performers Mo Ostin 2004 performers Jackson Browne The Dells George Harrison Prince Bob Seger Traffic ZZ Top lifetime achievement Jann S. Wenner 2005 performers Buddy Guy The O'Jays The Pretenders Percy Sledge U2 lifetime achievement Frank Barsalona Seymour Stein |
Originally Posted by mike harnish
KISS?! Weren't they the inspiration for Spinal Tap? Sure could've been, anyway.
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Yes, but, frankly, I meant the Spinal Tap comparison as an insult. Spinal Tap is a parody, a joke, and, to me, so is KISS. But, then, to each his/her own.
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Originally Posted by mike harnish
But, then, to each his/her own.
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Originally Posted by mike harnish
Yes, but, frankly, I meant the Spinal Tap comparison as an insult. Spinal Tap is a parody, a joke, and, to me, so is KISS. But, then, to each his/her own.
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Originally Posted by mike harnish
Yes, but, frankly, I meant the Spinal Tap comparison as an insult. Spinal Tap is a parody, a joke, and, to me, so is KISS. But, then, to each his/her own.
But I appreciate your willingness to accept that different people have different tastes and that it's OK to like different bands and champion their causes. Which is why if after listening to those songs listed above you still thought KISS was a joke I'd still think your opinion was valid. Hell, especially after listening to those songs if you still had that opinion I'd say, "To each his or her own," since at that point you would have listened to what I consider to be some of KISS' best material. Too many people hear "Rock and Roll All Nite" a zillion times on the radio and think that's all there is to KISS - which couldn't be farther from the truth. |
Does Spinal Tap have a shot at getting put in the RARHOF?
I think they should; they'll be eligible in '09 won't they? |
Rush was mentioned a couple times on this page, and I agree they should be in the HOF. Hell, they should have already been in! There's a ton of reasons all going through my head, but the one that comes up first is pure and simple influence. Rush made a career out of doing it their own way, every time, on every album. Because of a lack of radio play in their early years, they built a huge following on two things: word of mouth, and the sheer power of their music. Rush's style may not have influenced other artists/bands like more popular artists from years past, but maintaining that style has kept them as a unique force in a world of corporate cardboard cutout rock. You also can't deny the individual influence its members have had on young musicians the last couple decades. What bass player or drummer can honestly say they weren't influenced on their respective instruments by Geddy Lee or Neil Peart?
A loyal following, second only to perhaps the Grateful Dead (and perhaps the KISS Army), has spoken: "Let Rush in." |
Originally Posted by B5Erik
You know what I've found? Most people who think KISS is a joke tend not to have heard much of their music - especially their early stuff from before they hit it big. It's a real combination of American and British hard rock styles - kind of a Mid-Atlantic sound if you will. Seriously, If you like The Stones, or Zeppelin, or The Who, etc, I'd check out songs like "100,000 Years," "Watchin' You," "Deuce," "Hotter Than Hell," and "Black Diamond," - or if you like more modern grunge and heavy alternative music try their mid 90's stuff - "Jungle," "Master and Slave," "Rain," "Hate," and "Childhood's End," before passing final judgment. (Especially "Childhood's End," as I think it would be a revelation for a lot of people.)
Most people who really hate kiss really haven't listened to them that much, and most of the hate directed towards them (in my opinion anyway) is more because of Gene's constant commercialization of the band and trying to put their name on everything. Combine that with the fact that they have tried to get in on nearly every pop trend in the past 30 years (Disco= Dynasty) (90s grunge = Carnival of Souls), and people just can't stand them. IMO, they should be in there for Love Gun/Rock & Roll Over/ Kiss/ Destroyer and Alive I. Those albums are all pretty good. Other than that, IMO, they are pretty hit and miss, with mostly miss (I hate all of the solo albums, Dynasty, Unmasked, and The Elder) and the other albums are decent/mediocre to poor for the most part IMO. I do, however, think that Revenge is one of their better albums in the past 20 years or so They deserve to be in, but they aren't a very exciting choice for most people. Most people who haven't heard much of Kiss' catalog should at least listen to Double Platinum if nothing else. |
Originally Posted by Applejack
IMO, they should be in there for Love Gun/Rock & Roll Over/ Kiss/ Destroyer and Alive I. Those albums are all pretty good. |
Originally Posted by Jason
Most artists are like this. Black Sabbath aren't being inducted because of TYR or Seventh Star. They're being inducted for their first six albums.
With KISS their first 6 studio albums are their most highly regarded by a majority of fans - but each album had some really good songs, and some later albums were rock solid (Creatures of the Night, Lick It Up, Asylum, Revenge, Carnival of Souls). They were kind of like the Stones in this regard. Later albums were hit or miss with the fans (some liked them, others didn't). It's funny how the people voting for the entrants to the hall pretty much tend to ignore the fans - the people that the music is for and about in the first place. They try to make something more significant out of Rock and Roll than was originally intended - after all, Rock and Roll IS "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On," "Hound Dog," "Rock Around the Clock," "Johnny B. Goode," etc, not high art. |
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