Never heard Edge play guitar. He is a big KISS fan and a great wrestler, but I'm ticked off at him for having an affair with Lita and taking her away from his best friend!

Don't the two words mean essentially the same thing, especially when dealing with an art form? :confused:

i.e. "What was your favorite movie of last year?" being basically the same as "What was the best movie of last year?"

"F. Scott Fitzgerald is one of the best writers ever. Dean Koontz is one of my favorite writers." ----- see the difference?



*by the way, I don't like Dean Koontz

Well, if you want to go strictly on simple dictionary definitions, I think that would sum it up best (no pun intended):

"Best" - Excelling all others.

"Favorite" - One that is treated or regarded with special favor or liking.

The Edge may be a favorite among fans, and possibly even fellow guitar players, but that does not make him the best guitar player, meaning his skills or knowledge of his craft would make him any better than a thousand other musicians out there, famous or not.

I agree 100 percent.

Sure, the difference is that one is someone else's opinion, and one is your own opinion. If you ultimately "favor" Koontz over Fitzgerald, wouldn't you say Koontz is better?

"The best" should be voted on by fellow guitar players and other musicians in general; people who know what they're talking about.

"Favorite" should be voted on by fans; people who wouldn't know a guitar string from one of their own ass-hairs, but appreciate a good musician anyway, God love 'em.


I see where you're coming from, but being the best is less defined by opinion than being a favorite.

well, I meant it as "I think F. Scott Fitzgerald is one of the best writers ever." in comparison to other writers. "Dean Koontz, however, may be a favorite of mine, I don't think he's in the league of Fitzgerald's writing quality."

see The_Infidel's post too

'Best' in art only has meaning for elitist snobs who think they're smart enough, and their opinions matter enough, to say what's truly the best.

Which is why I think "(insert media) critic" is the most useless, meaningless job in the entire universe. Their vast knowledge of the history of the topic of which they speak does not make their opinion mine.

First of all, I'm not a huge U2 fan but mostly because Bono's personality grates on me. As a band, I have respect for them, but top 10 guitarist I just can't see. I think a better argument would be had for top 10 band. Comparing Clapton to The Edge is kind of odd to me though, since they're approach is so different. I'd put clapton as my favorite guitarist, and just have to say that calling his career overrated while extolling the greatness of U2 in the same paragraph is a bit convoulted. Clapton's career is talked of so much, because he moved through so many stages in which he found success. I think he's the only person to be inducted into the RnR hall of fame three times for the various groups he's been a part of. Essentially, U2 has and always will be U2. But I guess that's why there isn't only one musician in the world, that way we all have something to enjoy.

I was camping/surfing at Malibu just this last Saturday and me and my friend saw The Edge, hanging out with his kids. We didn't bother him, as it looked like a nice mellow time for him and his family, which I didn't want to interupt.

Anyways, he's a very innovative guitarist with a very distinct style. But great? I personally know about 20 guitarists who live in my neighborhood that can play circles around him... though they haven't innovated shit.

Here's the rub--I consider him the best because his playing can elicit raw, powerful emotion more adroitly and consistently than any other guitarist I've ever encountered. Again, I'm prepared to concede there are many more learned players out there (arguably, Clapton would find root here) and there are others (such as Hendrix and--another no-mention--Vernon Reid of Living Colour; Eddie Van Halen must also be mentioned here--he's an asshole, but a guitar genius) who are far more dynamic--virtuosos of the guitar, if you will--but if you agree with me that music is more vital when it concerns itself with eliciting motion rather than highlighting a "perfect", highly-trained command of an instrument (the same logic I would use to argue Bono as a better vocalist than Barbara Streisand or Celine Dion) then, yes, The Edge is the greatest guitar player to have ever walked the Earth. I'm not confusing "best" with "favorite", but I think you and I have a different conception of from what "best" should be measured.

I knew people would take offense to my statement, and I don't wish to move the focus of criticism from The Edge to Clapton, but when people extoll the virtues of Clapton's talent, it just frustrates me to no end because I literally don't see any appreciable talent in him. People here can argue until they're blue in the face why they think Jimmie Page, Prince, Hendrix, Ray Vaughn, Berry, etc. etc. etc. are better than The Edge and I will vehemenetly disagree with them, but I will fully understand where they find talent in their choices--I can't and won't argue that virtually each and every one of the choices offered against The Edge thus far is a crackerjack musician and we're all honored to have received such joys as we have from their command of craft, but Clapton is just (from my aesthetic point of view) a little scoop of unadorned vanilla ice cream. Bland, uninspired, without having ever once done something on guitar (this instrument of which he's allegedly such a master craftsman) that ever made me stop and take note. Really, I'm serious, can someone please direct me to these songs of his that I'm missing upon which his reputation is built? I'm just looking for three or four titles that I could hear and walk away saying a) I've never heard anyone do that with a guitar and b) I don't think anyone could try to pull it off as well. I can say that with dozens upon dozens of U2 tracks--nothing even close from Clapton, though. His appeal just escapes me on every single level.

Add up another vote for the Top 10...............but #9 or #10.

Really like The Edge's (AKA Dave Evans) riffs...instantly accessible (although I remember some early reviewers referring to him as 'Johnny One-Note'). But I wouldn't put him in top ten as far as being technically accomplished (judging solely from his recorded output...who knows what he plays in his spare time?). His playing "style" has influenced an entire generation of young guitarists, however.

BTW...one of the all-time 'best' rock guitarists who has appeared on tons of other artists' recordings in addition to his own formidable catalog is the great RICHARD THOMPSON. Maybe he doesn't get the popular recognition because he's so multi-faceted. He's the ultimate triple-threat artist who excells in songwriting, performing solo (singing & playing), and simply playing guitar. Thompson is equally adept at rock, jazz, or classical genres (Check out his intrumental "1000 years of popular music" CD, for example in which he performs covers of everything from Bach to Beatles). Thompson is a critic's darling, Grammy winner, a "musician's musician" (two tribute albums devoted to his songs have been released so far)...winner of Rolling Stone's Best Rock Album of the Year and in the top 20 of their best guitarists poll a couple of years ago...yet you can still see him perform live in an intimate club setting for less than $30. Simply amazing...to sit a few feet away from a master musician/songwriting genius...well, it's incredible that someone so talented is still largely ignored by the general public. He's also one artist who keeps getting stronger & better with time. If you are a fan of popular music, you owe it to yourself to check him out (he's now into his fifth decade of music but performs live with more intensity than most in their 20's...whether solo accoustic or with full band). Be prepared for his thick English accent (we have come to love his rich baritone, but some friends have found it unsettling at first) and his acerbic wit.
One other thing about Thompson...his playing is instantly recognizable even when he's doing session work for other artists.

I say "no" to both The Edge being one of the ten best guitarists ever and to the suggestion that U2 is a great or even good band.

Just curious, could name a few songs that highlight the Edge's playing? I am just starting to listen to U2, and I would like to hear more songs that would evoke these emotions. What I've heard so far, I greatly enjoy, but I think that someone more familiar with their discography could help me to become an even bigger fan. Thanks in advance!

Well, selecting a couple from each album, I'll go with:

BOY:
I Will Follow
Out of Control

OCTOBER:
Gloria
Rejoice

WAR:
New Year's Day
Two Hearts Beat as One

UNDER A BLOOD RED SKY:
11 O'Clock Tick Tock
The Electric Co.

THE UNFORGETTABLE FIRE:
A Sort of Homecoming
Pride (in the name of love)

WIDE AWAKE IN AMERICA:
Bad (Live) [the second greatest u2 song ever]
Love Comes Tumbling

THE JOSHUA TREE:
The whole fucking album...I shit you not. Features THE greatest U2 song ever, Where the Streets Have No Name

RATTLE AND HUM:
Hawkmoon 269
Bullet the Blue Sky (Live)

ACHTUNG BABY:
Zoo Station
The Fly
...really, like Joshua Tree, the whole damn thing...

ZOOROPA:
Some Days are Better Than Others
The Wanderer

ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACKS 1 (as Passengers):
Always Forever Now
Beach Sequence

POP:
Discotheque
Gone

ALL THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE BEHIND:
Beautiful Day
New York

HOW TO DISMANTLE AN ATOMIC BOMB:
Vertigo
Love and Peace or Else
City of Blinding Lights (since this is the latest album, I'll pick three ;) )

And this is only the tip of the iceberg...even U2's B-side tracks can shake me to my core...

I completely agree that eliciting emotion is what makes great music. The problem is, its extremely subjective as to what can elicit that emotion. I respect U2 as a band, they have songwriting talent, I can only aspire to be able to write as well as they can. But never has it actually brought emotion to me (not in the way other music can), it just offers a good listen. I don't expect, or want, all music to give me raw powerful emotions so bands like U2 fit the bill nicely when I dont want that. That said, the musician that first yanked on my emotions was Clapton, and no matter how many times I listen to his stuff I can still get the same feeling as the first time I heard it. Its not something I can really argue, or try to convince with, its just the way it is. I do find it hard to believe that you can't find *any* musical talent in him, as I can probably find at least *one* thing in almost any musician that is of some worth. And since you asked, I'd say his best song is Bell Bottom Blues, or the entire Layla album. Funnily enough, the solo in that song may actually be Duane Allman, I've never looked into it, but the songs pretty intense to me. Just the emotion that I hear him put into his music is why I love it, much like I'm assuming is why you like The Edge.

As to people saying 'the best...' discussions are pointless, I disagree. Obviously, there's never going to be a difinitive 'best' but being able to hear others opinions on it has brought my attention to artists which I would have never found otherwise.

:up:

If you're telling me you can listen to "Bad (Live)" and not feel like your heart's going to split apart at the seams or "Where the Streets Have No Name" and not be convinced that every human moment in history has occurred for the sole purpose of leading up to the recording of that song, then it is painfully obvious that our personal aesthetics are so divergent as to render any common ground for further discussion non-existent. I don't say that as an insult but as truth--if these types of songs don't shake you down to your core, and yet Clapton's do (Bell Bottom Blues, really? [i]Really?[i]), then we're just as different as night and day in terms of musical appreciation. That's okay, it makes the world a more interesting place but I gotta reiterate, I just don't get it. Thanks for trying to give me some Clapton examples, though; sorry to not concur with your opinion of their worth. Even "Tears in Heaven", a song written out of the richest kind of emotional material possible, falls flat in Clapton's delivery for me. Just the facts...

Well, I took a listen to "where the streets' and 'bad' per you suggestion. Since this topic really is on The Edge as a guitarist, not as the band as a whole, I really don't see where any emotional contribution is made from the guitar on 'streets' (same with 'bad' but I couldn't find a live version). Its essentially the same bit on repeat. It really is funny how opposite we sit on The Edge and Clapton. As only one more suggestion, try listening to 'while my guitar gently weeps' from 'the concert for george', and presumably off the original album. If this doesn't grab on to some feelings, I could only tell you its pretty doubtful that anything else by him would be worthwhile for you to listen to, as his playing on that track pretty much sums up what I find appealing from him. Really, considering Bono is something of a personal annoyance of mine, I say with regret that the only part of U2's music I find at all emotional, is Bono's singing. Put any other band behind him, at it would probably sound just as good to me, if not better.

Oh yeah, and as for 'tears in heaven'.... good lyrical content but, meh as far as musically pleasing. Considering how well it did commercially, it's far from his best in my opinion.

I'm sorry but, to me, this statement is about as non-sensical as if you had written "The sky is green with pink pola dots." Again, not an insult, just another acknowledgment that, in terms of musical aesthetics, you and I are operating on completely divergent wavelengths, and I must opine that "It's essentially the same bit on repeat" is not at all a fair criticism of what Edge does in that song, from the surreal, twinkling, crescendoing intro, to the kinetic pulse of the verses to the surging, stirring clarion call of the choruses, to the bittersweet, chiming imperative of the outro, "same bit repeated" does not apply.

Ah, that's the problem. "Bad" as a studio track is actually one of U2's more mediocre efforts, a meandering little tune, sung without the necessary conviction by Bono and played by Edge and Clayton without much breadth or force (with Larry doing some odd, kind of annoying "woodpecker" effect on the drums, to boot); as with all U2, I enjoy it and it has its virtues, but never has a song been so radically evolved and improved upon as when U2 took "Bad" live--on stage, it becomes a righteous, agonizing powerhouse of a melody, with Bono singing like it's his last stand, and Edge and the rest of the gang swelling the emotional tonal landscape of the song to a point that brings me nearly to tears every single time. You can find (IMO) the best live version of it on the WIDE AWAKE IN AMERICA EP, or by watching the DVD of RATTLE AND HUM. If it fails to leave its mark on you, then I really think the gulf between us in terms of what we register in music is simply too vast to find common ground.

"While My Guitar Gently Weeps"? Would this not just be Clapton working off the framework provided by The Beatles?

Sure, just like many artists work off the framework of others. Just like The Edge works off the framework set by his bandmates. Its not as though Harrison wrote this song, gave Clapton the notes to play and asked him to do it just cause he didn't want to play it. Very specifically speaking of the guitar on these songs, then it was harrison that went to clapton and asked for him to put the guitar to a song on which the framework was laid.

Edit: I found the live version of Bad, and I just cant say it affected my feelings of The Edge (although I'd agree the song comes off much better live). That said, its obviously just a complete difference in what we look for in guitarists. I'm curious to know, what other guitarists would you put right up there with The Edge? I'd almost be suprised if we have any overlaps =]

Agreed.