I never really get this, but I do hear it... I disagree completely, and say if you want to see a boring show go see like the Counting Crows or something, not only is the band boring, the music will put you to sleep even.

Maybe they saved their good shows for Chicago, since that is where Corgan is from.. I can say I saw them a lot of times, and they were always good, but then again I base most of that on simply the musical aspect, and not really looking at it as a performance or a show.. Who knows maybe it's the venues I saw them at, with prob half the shows I saw very tiny like the Aragon, Metro etc.. you're talking < a few thousand if that.

Damn, I just checked Amazon, it's 50% off for only $9.99. I just ordered one too. Thanks!

I'm not saying that SP will be the most popular band 20 years from now, but I think they will still have a decent following. They don't play Velvet Underground or Yardbirds songs on the radio (at least not any of the places that I have lived). There are a lot of bands like that, ones that are very influential and will always be celebrated in music circles or among those really into music.

Look also at a band like the Pixies. They were critically praised when they were making music but were commercial failures. They break up in 1992 and their status and reputation has only grown until this year, where they were selling out shows. I know they weren't playing massive arenas or anything, but the point is that great music doesn't die. And even though Joe Schmo might not remember them 20 years from now, I guarantee you a lot of people will.

Their early stuff will be remembered.
Their (actually, weirdo Corgan's) later stuff will be forgotten.

I still hear "Today" and "Disarm" on rock radio. Find me a station that plays... um...


... I honestly can't remember the names of any of their latter-day stuff.

Um, can a Pumpkins fan clue me in to what happened to them? One day they were everywhere and the next (it seemed) they were gone, replaced by The Next Big Band. Just curious.

-Gunshy

Corgan walked away to start his other band, while critically acclaimed, dismally failed. Last I heard. That was, what, 5 years ago?

who indeed. i think the only song of theirs that got any decent amount of exposure via radio airplay was "1979."

Maybe in Kentucky. In LA, they were huge and played all the time on KROQ.

I remember heavy airplay for Today, Rocket, Disarm, Mayonaise, Tonight, Tonight, 1979, Zero, Bullet With Butterfly Wings.

I'm sure that the big difference is that i either listen to mainstream pop or country, and that "1979" was the only one of theirs that was such a huge crossover hit. Someone please correct me if they had another big crossover and i just wasn't paying attention to radio at that time.

Ugh..."1979" is one of my least favorite SP songs. :yack: But i do recall that it was the only one to really make it onto the pop station at the time. I didn't start hearing other Pumpkins stuff until i wised up and switched to the then alternative station. Oddly enough, from 1997 to about 2001 I hardly ever heard them play "Tonight Tonight" except for on "block weekends".


But to answer the question...yes. I'd like to think that in 10-20 years they will still be remembered...and hopefully for thier pre-Adore/Billy dressing like Uncle Fester years.

I think that Nirvana album stole some thunder from Gish.

If I remember correctly, the keyboardist who toured with them, Jon Melvoin, died from a heroin overdose while shooting up with drummer Jimmy Chamblerian. The Pumpkins tried to go on without them, I think they even used the drummer from the Foo Fighters for some of their tour while Chamberlain was kicked out or in rehab or something. I guess things kind of spiraled from there, read this quote

"we had reached the end of the road emotionally, spiritually, musically", and that he was tired of "fighting Britney"...Corgan also later attributes the band's breakup to James Iha...(the bassist if I remember correctly), so take what you want

I would like to think that Siamese Dream will regain some popularity as the years pass. It's their timeless masterpiece, IMHO.

Mayonaise and Geek USA are their two best songs, and probably two of the most underrated songs from the 1990s.

You could make a two or three disc set of their catalog and make an unbelievable package. If they would focus a little less on the radio singles and bring in some of the unreleased songs, it could really rock.

I like "Geek USA" and as far as Mellon Collie songs, other than "Tonight Tonight" i skip the other songs released as singles.

"Zero" and "BWBW" are overplay and i never liked "1979"

However, the Pumpkins MC boxset has some other songs on the singles that are much better than the "main songs" Zero is a very good example of this, "God" and "Marque in Spades" are far better than "Zero".

But back to Siamese Dream:

I was really pissed that "Rocket" wasn't included on the greatest hits album though. :mad:

This is how I remember the beginning of their descent. Some have short memories, but at one time, they were pegged as the band to take the alternative "torch" Nirvana had carried. Coming off the success of Gish, they followed that with the brilliant Siamese Dream, coincidentally right after Cobain passed. Rumors had it that Nirvana was going to headline Lollapalooza '94 and again the Pumpkins were chosen to fill that void.

All in all, Corgan had become his own worst enemy. He had tons and tons of material, but it just went in a different direction than what his fans expected out of him. The outtakes of Siamese, (which made up the Pisces Iscariot LP) were better than their latter material. Like alot of under-rated, under-appreciated bands, there radio friendly hits aren't enough to make them "remembered" by the masses, but everyone else that heard and lived through their experience will. BTW, James Iha was the lead guitarist, D'arcy, the blonde girl was the bassist.

They will be forgotten fast.

Since I'm a Pumpkins fan, I'll throw in my two cents. With two MASTERPIECE albums under their belt, Mellon Collie... and Siamese Dream, I don't see how they could be forgotten. When I listen to oldies and classic rock stations and out of all the WONDERFUL songs from the 50s, 60s, and 70s they also play some of the crap songs, I think the Pumpkins will have no problem being remembered. (They still play the Monkees. That's the equivalent of them playing Backstreet Boys stuff in 40 years)

No way anyone on a starship is going to remember them if they don't come out with SACD Remasters soon

Siamese Dream came out in the summer of '93, roughly 9 months before Cobain killed himself. Your comments are incorrect.

So, in retrospect, do the masses of Pumpkins fans still despise 'Adore' and blame it for not just their commercial, but artistic demise? I always liked it, actually it is still one of my favorite albums. Its intricate, poetic and beautiful, and I think---at the time---if the fans would have been a little more mature, and opened their ears, it would have done better critically. I think the real fall came with 'Machina', which is uneven and bloated, the height of Corgan's narcissism.

I think you are wrong. When I think of the top tier 90's bands, there is SP, Nirvana and Pearl Jam. Second tier would be Weezer, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, etc. I love all of these bands and do not beleive SP will be forgotten. They owned the rock music world from 95 to 97 for a joke. Look at the millions of copies of Mellon COllie sold. The numerous awards won (MTV mostly). 1979 was one of the biggest alternative rock crossover hits, if no THE biggest of that era. I cannot believe anyone that knows anything about music saying that SP will be forgotten.

Yeah. A more correct statement would be that after Cobain killed himself in 1994 and Mellon Collie was released in 1995, the Pumpkins were propelled into the spotlight.

I kind of agree with you here. When Adore came out, I completely tuned it out. It really didn't interest me at all. But recently, a friend of mine let me borrow a copy of it, and I forced myself to listen to it. I was shocked at how much I liked it. I still don't think it holds a candle to Siamese Dream, but it was still very good. I think that Adore has aged real well. If it were to have come out today, I wouldn't be surprised if it did much better, critically and commercially.

I've always loved Adore. Loved it when it came out, love it now. I think the reason it was almost universally rejected upon it's reception was because of the expectations set after Mellon Collie was released. People were expecting another huge rock opus. Instead, they got Billy Corgan without his drummer after his mom passed away. The music was / is very arcane (written in 50 & 60's songstyles with 90's technological influences). Even Billy stated that they shouldn've jumped into recorded the album the way they did.

Now my personal feeling on Adore & Machina is that they could've both been hits if the albums weren't overloaded with unradio-friendly songs. Also, they could've had better single choices.

Well Zwam ended about 2 years ago... Which was the group you were referring to that failed. They got pretty good press, but think in the end they failed because of 2 things, schedules, artists had their own bands, so I think they just never really committed, and secondly the music was always being confused or argued over being religious..

He just this summer published a book of original poetry (Corgan) and went on a book tour with that.

Corgan supposedly is set to release his first solo album basically sometime soon.. (not sure of exact dates)

I agree, as I said on page one I enjoy all ablums and really like adore as well, all for different reasons.