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What is your top US Punk? UK Punk albums?

Old 06-10-04, 09:23 AM
  #26  
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"Punk" nowadays means a certain sound. However, in the older days, (especially in the U.S. scene) it meant more of an aesthetic.

Personally, I think that the aesthetics of old-school punk (DIY, do your own thing musically, etc.) are far more important to music nowadays than the sound (which, I admit, I also enjoy.) That's why I'll argue to anyone that bands like R.E.M., Blondie, Johnny Cash and just about 1980's indie-rock band are far more punk than just about any of the "punk" bands crawling out of the woodworks nowadays.

But I digress...

UK -

1. The Clash - London Calling
2. Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bullocks
3. The Clash - The Clash

US -

1. Velvet Underground - Velvet Underground and Nico
2. Ramones - Ramones
3. Television - Marquee Moon
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Old 06-10-04, 10:26 AM
  #27  
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Originally posted by wendersfan
I agree that there's more to punk than just the music, but I think you're placing too much importance on the image. Of course, that's what the media latched on to post '77, and that's what a lot of people think of when they think of 'punk'.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Of course it's not just about image. But it's not just about how fast you play your guitar or how loud the music is either. I believe we're on the same page more than you think.
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Old 06-10-04, 11:19 AM
  #28  
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Originally posted by Daytripper
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Of course it's not just about image. But it's not just about how fast you play your guitar or how loud the music is either. I believe we're on the same page more than you think.
Probably. I think I just wanted an excuse to do an image search for The Jam and The Buzzcocks on the company dime.

'Punk' has to be first and foremost about the music, but the aesthetic, the attitude, and everything else tends to follow as well. There's hardly been a movement in pop music since their was pop music that didn't have a fashion and lifestyle trend associated with it. This is more a Brit phenomenon (mods, rockers, Teddy boys, etc.) than an American one, but it's true over here, too. Still, it's hard to reconcile the connection between Patti Smith's "Piss Factory" and Husker Du's "Turn On the News" unless you know about everything that happened in between. If not, the two seem to have very little in common.

Can you tell I've actually given this some thought?
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Old 06-10-04, 11:57 AM
  #29  
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I've got a question for you.....would you consider early Sonic Youth and Siouxsie and the Banshees punk?
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Old 06-10-04, 12:11 PM
  #30  
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Originally posted by Daytripper
I've got a question for you.....would you consider early Sonic Youth and Siouxsie and the Banshees punk?
Oh, hell yeah. Any band who had Sid Viscious play drums for them on their opening gig is definitely punk...
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Old 06-10-04, 12:17 PM
  #31  
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US:

Bad Brains - Rock For Light
Descendents - I Don't Want To Grow Up
Dag Nasty - Wig Out at Denkos
Black Flag - Damaged
Misfits - Walk Among Us
The Ramones - Pleasant Dreams

UK:
Buzzcocks - Love Bites
The Damned - Damned Damned Damned
Sex Pistols - Nevermind the Bullocks....
The Clash - London Calling
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Old 06-10-04, 12:22 PM
  #32  
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Is No-Wave considered Punk? (Aesthetically, yes. Politically, yes & no. Sonically and Structurally, yes & no.) How you regard No-Wave would determine whether or not Sonic Youth was punk, IMO.
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Old 06-10-04, 12:39 PM
  #33  
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Originally posted by fallow
Is No-Wave considered Punk? (Aesthetically, yes. Politically, yes & no. Sonically and Structurally, yes & no.) How you regard No-Wave would determine whether or not Sonic Youth was punk, IMO.

Daytripper <===== confused. What is "no-wave"?
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Old 06-10-04, 01:59 PM
  #34  
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Originally posted by fallow
Is No-Wave considered Punk? (Aesthetically, yes. Politically, yes & no. Sonically and Structurally, yes & no.) How you regard No-Wave would determine whether or not Sonic Youth was punk, IMO.
Absolutely-just a subcatagory....Lydia Lunch was a blast.


As far as no-wave (and I could be wrong) it was an anti stance against new-wave. EDIT: Guess I was wrong hehehe...I do remember seeing some video with Lydia and Henry Rollins running through a park and George (forgot last name of Foetus) pulling his pud...it was strange to say the least. Does anyone know this?

Last edited by Flashback; 06-10-04 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 06-10-04, 03:33 PM
  #35  
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I think no-wave pre-dated new-wave. Or at least the heyday.

No-wave was a late 70s-early 80s underground NYC loft art scene. Many of the artists fused disco, punk, and noise, but none of these were necessarily a staple of the style. For example, Glenn Branca, who gave Lee Ranaldo & Thurston Moore (now of Sonic Youth) their start, more or less started what is known today as post-rock-- lots of guitars in a weirdly tuned and noisy orchestra.* His 1981 album, The Ascenscion (recently re-issued along with 1980's Lesson no. 1 on Acute Records), still makes most post-rock albums of today pale.

Brian Eno compiled No New York, a treasured and contentious collection, in 1978. While a gem, the compilation also makes no-wave appear to be the work of four bands (James Chance & the Contortions, Teenage Jesus & the Jerks, Mars, and DNA), all from the East Village. Supposedly these bands cozied up to Eno and convinced them to leave West Village bands, such as Glenn Branca's Theoretical Girls, off of the album. Many consider Eno to be a bastard because of this, but a used copy of the original record could probably sell for upwards of $100.

Some of the most prominent artists in the scene are/were: The Contortions w/ James Chance (whose 1979 album, Buy the Contortions, is one of my all-time favorites), Lydia Lunch (of Teenage Jesus and the Jerks), Arto Lindsay (of DNA and Ambitious Lovers), Glenn Branca (of Theoretical Girls), The Bush Tetras, Rhys Chatham, and Lizzy Mercier Descloux (another one of my favorites and sadly, recently deceased).

Soul Jazz along with ZE Records put out very strong collections from some of the lesser known acts: New York Noise (Soul Jazz) and Mutant Disco 2xCD (ZE). As I said earlier, some of Glenn Branca's albums have been re-issued, Rhino put out a James Chance boxset, Rhys Chatham has a boxset, and DNA is getting the retrospective treatment from No More Records. ZE Records has also re-issued some records by Was (Not Was), Lizzy Mercier Descloux, and James Chance on 180 gram vinyl.

I think all of that is accurate. If not, I'm sure that Yancey or Pikul could correct me.

Fun fact: Branca wrote a piece for 100 guitars that was either never performed or performed at the WTC 2 months to the day before 9/11. (I think I read the latter in an interview a year ago but I'm not positive.)

Last edited by fallow; 06-10-04 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 06-10-04, 06:47 PM
  #36  
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The punk aesthetic and the experimental aesthetic are generally the same, it's just that punk draws more on traditional rock techniques than experimental. Thus, no-wave can be considered both experimental and punk.

Sonic Youth, though, definitely had a punk period.
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Old 06-10-04, 08:39 PM
  #37  
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Originally posted by fallow
I guess we need to clarify whether or not we're talking about a punk aesthetic or a punk sound. If we're talking about a punk aesthetic, then I'd scrap 'em all for
UK: Gang of Four, Entertainment, This Heat, Deceit, Public Image Ltd., Album. US: Pere Ubu, Dub Housing, Television, Marquee Moon, and Mission of Burma, Vs.


WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS WHAT IS KNOWN AS POST-PUNK. It has the attitude of punk but is more artistic. i like it a lot
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Old 06-11-04, 08:39 AM
  #38  
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I know. Notice that I said "if we're talking about the punk aesthetic, then..."

And I agree. I'd take nearly any post-punk album over a punk album any day.
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Old 06-11-04, 11:47 PM
  #39  
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US:

Black Flag - The First Four Years
Red Rockers - Condition Red
X - Under The Big Black Sun

UK:

999 - Seperates
The Clash - Give 'Em Enough Rope
The Adverts - Crossing The Red Sea
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Old 06-12-04, 12:02 AM
  #40  
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US:
New York Dolls - New York Dolls
Black Flag - Damaged
Dead Kennedys - Fresh Fruit

UK:
The Clash - The Clash
Sex Pistols - Nevermind
The Clash - London Calling
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Old 06-13-04, 12:12 AM
  #41  
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the greatest punk band of all time was the dead kennedys. im not a fan of punk, but they are one of my favorite bands. hilarious, hard hitting and jello has the best voice ever.
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