Who's your #1 band/artist that defines 'sellout'?
07-02-03, 12:19 PM
#29
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Originally posted by DodgingCars
Beck? Why?
Beck? Why?
One Foot in The Grave
Stereopathic Soul Manure
Mellow Gold
But if I want that great Beck feeling, only Better, I much prefer to pop in some WEEN.
07-02-03, 12:39 PM
#30
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Originally posted by saoirse
Well I used to like him back in the day, but once Odelay came out (an album I didn't really like), he did the extreme sellout in only performing his one or two "hits" from that album every damn time he was on tv, not mixing it up like he previously did.
Well I used to like him back in the day, but once Odelay came out (an album I didn't really like), he did the extreme sellout in only performing his one or two "hits" from that album every damn time he was on tv, not mixing it up like he previously did.
Or maybe he did it for the money...
07-02-03, 12:47 PM
#31
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Originally posted by JestersTear
To me, the term "selling out" means that you state that you will never do something, but then do it anyway because someone waves enough money under your nose. You've sold your stated beliefs for money.
To me, the term "selling out" means that you state that you will never do something, but then do it anyway because someone waves enough money under your nose. You've sold your stated beliefs for money.
in 1996, eddie stated that if anyone was ever killed during one of their concerts, they'd never play again.
9 people were trampled to death at a show in 2000, but they're still playing.
but i'd say it's for different reasons other than money.. i dunno.. to me, pearl jam is the farthest 'popular' band from a sellout that i know...
07-02-03, 01:26 PM
#33
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I define selling out as deliberately compromising your music (weakening it) in order to sell more records. To me, that's different than being a deliberately commercial artist. People like Elton John and Bert Bacharach will admit that they are in the business of making music that a lot of people will like, hopefully resulting in massive royalty checks. There's certainly nothing wrong with that and because that's their stated purpose in making music, they're not sell-outs.
A real sell-out is someone who had a distinctive personal artistic vision and abandons it to become more palatable to John Q. Public. Hey, musicians gotta eat too, so I don't have a problem with it...it's not like it makes me angry. But that doesn't mean that I have to respect them as artists.
A real sell-out is someone who had a distinctive personal artistic vision and abandons it to become more palatable to John Q. Public. Hey, musicians gotta eat too, so I don't have a problem with it...it's not like it makes me angry. But that doesn't mean that I have to respect them as artists.
07-02-03, 02:41 PM
#34
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I both agree and diagree with the Metallica comments. Me personally didn't see them as sellouts until Load. Releasing a video no no big deal to me, I actually thought it was kinnda cool, because bands like Anthrax and Exodus were doing videos all along.
I also liked the Black Album. Sure it wasn't Puppets but is was still a great album. I remember that I defended Metallica when it came out.
From this point on I agree with "raider's" comments 100%.
As far as the napster thing goes... I bought all of Metallicas albums (some 2 or 3 times when "upgrading") I've paid to see them in concert a dozen times, and bought tons of t-shirts in the past. Lars has my money. If I want to download some obscure B-side that was olnly releases in Kalamazoo Europe, or a single song off a movie soundtrack that has a dozen other songs that I would rater gauge my eardrums out rather than listen too that should be my right.
I also liked the Black Album. Sure it wasn't Puppets but is was still a great album. I remember that I defended Metallica when it came out.
From this point on I agree with "raider's" comments 100%.
As far as the napster thing goes... I bought all of Metallicas albums (some 2 or 3 times when "upgrading") I've paid to see them in concert a dozen times, and bought tons of t-shirts in the past. Lars has my money. If I want to download some obscure B-side that was olnly releases in Kalamazoo Europe, or a single song off a movie soundtrack that has a dozen other songs that I would rater gauge my eardrums out rather than listen too that should be my right.
07-02-03, 04:17 PM
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Eminem and just about every rapper I listen to,I listen to music because I like it and dont care what it sells or what people lable it as,I know people that wont listen to a certain artist just because they sell alot of albums and are to popular,well fk that I listen to music because I enjoy it,so if the artist I like sells 100 million albums and are on MTV's TRL every day(which I dont watch)then so be it.
07-03-03, 08:06 PM
#36
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Recently, both Liz Phair and Jewel have sold-out. My definition of selling-out is when you make music (or whatever) in order to generate sales, rather than to follow your muse as an artist. Jewel has clearly done this with her new album, even though she hides it, and Liz has pretty much said that's what she's done.
Pathetic, really.
Pathetic, really.
07-03-03, 09:28 PM
#37
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Originally posted by raiders757
For me "Sell Out" has a few meanings. I'll go with the "We will never cave in to corporate greed to sell records to the masses" version of "Sell Out".
The winner of this is hands down, Metallica. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon here. I have believed this from the day the "One" video hit the air waves on MTV (A long time ago). If you were not around for Metallica in the beginning, you might not understand exactly why making a video would piss a few fans off enough to call them sell outs. It's kind of hard to explain, unless you were a fan of thrash metal back in the day. The video was just the first small step. It was when they got Bob Rock to produce thier "Black" album, that the sell went into full effect. Yes it was a decent hard rock album, but that's what the problem was. Metallica was not a hard rock band, they were a thrash metal band. To make an album like that, was to turn your back on your most loyal fans. The very same fans that got them where they were at that point and time. To say they wanted to reach out to a broader audience, was just the same as saying "Well thanks for the support guys, but you are no longer good enough for us, and we have no use for you anymore. We want to appeal to fans more along the sheepish variety. So thanks anyways for everything you have done for us up to this point, and a big F-You from the band, it was a nice ride, but were moving on to bigger things, and in order to do it, we must dumb down our music for the masses, and get rid of you true head bangers, for some screaming little MTV kiddies. You guys would just make us look bad, and just get in the way. Later Metal scum, hello mindless MTV viewers. You guys understand don't ya'?"
Now, there is no problem to me, if you want to change your musical direction a little, but in Metallicas case it was different. They preached to us about corporate greed, and how they would never cave in to it. For them to do so, was a total shock to me, as well as a disapointment. I really hoped it was just that one album, and would accept it if it was, but noooooooo. It was only the beginning. Not only did they sell thier souls to the corporate devil, but thier live show started seeming to be half assed and uninspired from the Black tour onward. Metallica used to be ten times better live than they are now. If you think they are good in concert now(which they aren't anymore) then you should have seen them when they were true to thier original fans. you would see what I mean. They are nothin but bubble gum now, half assin' thier way through the songs with no passion what so ever. (Havn't seen them on the new tour, so that may have changed, I would hope)
Then "Load"came out. It was around that time when hard rock/metal bands were calling themselves "grunge" instead of METAL, because, I guess ,admitting you were a metal band was not cool all of the sudden. Which in its' self was a sell out A.K.A grunge. (I also believe although they had a different sound, grunge was hard rock/metal music, and to sit there, and go"Oh were not a metal band (a la Soundgarden, whom I somewhat like), at the time was a huge sell out in its' self , on all those bands behalf. Every freakin' one of them. Sorry to go off track)
Where was I? Oh yea. LOAD. When that "Load" of crap came out, I was at a loss for words. Here is the band that could save real METAL with a really kick a** album. The one band that could pull these confused kids from the putrid spew these "grunge" bands were putting out, but noooooooooooooooo.
They put out an album full over overproduced, streamlined and not very inspired sounding crud, that somehow would appeal to the grunge kids yet still remain "hard rock". If they could have pulled another Master of Puppets etc out thier A**'s at that time, it would have kept real METAL alive in America. Instead they gave us exactly what comes from an A**. *****!!!
Then they followed it up with *****.
ReLOAD. I'm not even going to comment on that album.
Then they followed all that with a bunch of filler albums. Garage Revisited (or what ever it's called), S&M, etc.. During this entire time, I can't believe they didn't come up with new material. Instead they just put out cover songs, and live stuff, all just to rake in the $$$, and the newbreed Metallica fans mindlessly bought into it.
Now the ST. Anger album. I'm at a loss for words as to how bad this album sounds. They should *****-can Bob Rock right away. Something they should have done after the "Black" album. Well really they should have never got him at all. As for the music...
Well I'll save ya' even more spew, I've already been negative enough as it is. There is nothing I could add that hasn't already been said on this issue. I'll just say, I was very dissapointed, but not suprised they sold out yet again, and put out a NU-METAL(you know Korn, Stinkin' Park) album. What can I say? They have not only sold out once, but twice, and arguably three times.
I think I have made my case here. Metallica has got to be the biggest sell out of them all. At least in the rock music dept.
For me "Sell Out" has a few meanings. I'll go with the "We will never cave in to corporate greed to sell records to the masses" version of "Sell Out".
The winner of this is hands down, Metallica. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon here. I have believed this from the day the "One" video hit the air waves on MTV (A long time ago). If you were not around for Metallica in the beginning, you might not understand exactly why making a video would piss a few fans off enough to call them sell outs. It's kind of hard to explain, unless you were a fan of thrash metal back in the day. The video was just the first small step. It was when they got Bob Rock to produce thier "Black" album, that the sell went into full effect. Yes it was a decent hard rock album, but that's what the problem was. Metallica was not a hard rock band, they were a thrash metal band. To make an album like that, was to turn your back on your most loyal fans. The very same fans that got them where they were at that point and time. To say they wanted to reach out to a broader audience, was just the same as saying "Well thanks for the support guys, but you are no longer good enough for us, and we have no use for you anymore. We want to appeal to fans more along the sheepish variety. So thanks anyways for everything you have done for us up to this point, and a big F-You from the band, it was a nice ride, but were moving on to bigger things, and in order to do it, we must dumb down our music for the masses, and get rid of you true head bangers, for some screaming little MTV kiddies. You guys would just make us look bad, and just get in the way. Later Metal scum, hello mindless MTV viewers. You guys understand don't ya'?"
Now, there is no problem to me, if you want to change your musical direction a little, but in Metallicas case it was different. They preached to us about corporate greed, and how they would never cave in to it. For them to do so, was a total shock to me, as well as a disapointment. I really hoped it was just that one album, and would accept it if it was, but noooooooo. It was only the beginning. Not only did they sell thier souls to the corporate devil, but thier live show started seeming to be half assed and uninspired from the Black tour onward. Metallica used to be ten times better live than they are now. If you think they are good in concert now(which they aren't anymore) then you should have seen them when they were true to thier original fans. you would see what I mean. They are nothin but bubble gum now, half assin' thier way through the songs with no passion what so ever. (Havn't seen them on the new tour, so that may have changed, I would hope)
Then "Load"came out. It was around that time when hard rock/metal bands were calling themselves "grunge" instead of METAL, because, I guess ,admitting you were a metal band was not cool all of the sudden. Which in its' self was a sell out A.K.A grunge. (I also believe although they had a different sound, grunge was hard rock/metal music, and to sit there, and go"Oh were not a metal band (a la Soundgarden, whom I somewhat like), at the time was a huge sell out in its' self , on all those bands behalf. Every freakin' one of them. Sorry to go off track)
Where was I? Oh yea. LOAD. When that "Load" of crap came out, I was at a loss for words. Here is the band that could save real METAL with a really kick a** album. The one band that could pull these confused kids from the putrid spew these "grunge" bands were putting out, but noooooooooooooooo.
They put out an album full over overproduced, streamlined and not very inspired sounding crud, that somehow would appeal to the grunge kids yet still remain "hard rock". If they could have pulled another Master of Puppets etc out thier A**'s at that time, it would have kept real METAL alive in America. Instead they gave us exactly what comes from an A**. *****!!!
Then they followed it up with *****.
ReLOAD. I'm not even going to comment on that album.
Then they followed all that with a bunch of filler albums. Garage Revisited (or what ever it's called), S&M, etc.. During this entire time, I can't believe they didn't come up with new material. Instead they just put out cover songs, and live stuff, all just to rake in the $$$, and the newbreed Metallica fans mindlessly bought into it.
Now the ST. Anger album. I'm at a loss for words as to how bad this album sounds. They should *****-can Bob Rock right away. Something they should have done after the "Black" album. Well really they should have never got him at all. As for the music...
Well I'll save ya' even more spew, I've already been negative enough as it is. There is nothing I could add that hasn't already been said on this issue. I'll just say, I was very dissapointed, but not suprised they sold out yet again, and put out a NU-METAL(you know Korn, Stinkin' Park) album. What can I say? They have not only sold out once, but twice, and arguably three times.
I think I have made my case here. Metallica has got to be the biggest sell out of them all. At least in the rock music dept.
-k
###
07-03-03, 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by mkdevo
so, by this definition (and i'm not arguing here), would you consider pearl jam to be sellouts?
in 1996, eddie stated that if anyone was ever killed during one of their concerts, they'd never play again.
9 people were trampled to death at a show in 2000, but they're still playing.
but i'd say it's for different reasons other than money.. i dunno.. to me, pearl jam is the farthest 'popular' band from a sellout that i know...
so, by this definition (and i'm not arguing here), would you consider pearl jam to be sellouts?
in 1996, eddie stated that if anyone was ever killed during one of their concerts, they'd never play again.
9 people were trampled to death at a show in 2000, but they're still playing.
but i'd say it's for different reasons other than money.. i dunno.. to me, pearl jam is the farthest 'popular' band from a sellout that i know...
Of course, I view Vedder as nothing but a big sellout anyway. He constantly complains that he never wanted to be famous, but Pearl Jam keeps cranking out CD's. If he didn't want to be famous, he shouldn't have signed the contracts.
Don't get me wrong, I like the band... but Vedder can be an annoying little punk.
07-03-03, 10:49 PM
#39
Senior Member
Let me just give a short reply in defence of some of these "sellouts". Selling more records does NOT equal selling out. I mean, lets say you're in a band that's had a couple moderately popular albums. You release a third album that becomes wildly popular, your songs are played on the radio constantly, your face(s) start appearing on tv constantly, etc. Does this mean you've become a "mainstream" sellout? What have you done differently? I just think people shouldn't confuse popularity with selling out.
07-03-03, 11:10 PM
#40
Originally posted by JestersTear
Actually, I'd say that according to the definition I use... yeah, they're sellouts.
Of course, I view Vedder as nothing but a big sellout anyway. He constantly complains that he never wanted to be famous, but Pearl Jam keeps cranking out CD's. If he didn't want to be famous, he shouldn't have signed the contracts.
Actually, I'd say that according to the definition I use... yeah, they're sellouts.
Of course, I view Vedder as nothing but a big sellout anyway. He constantly complains that he never wanted to be famous, but Pearl Jam keeps cranking out CD's. If he didn't want to be famous, he shouldn't have signed the contracts.
They are making the albums that they want to make, regardless of what is popular right now. They are also supposedly going to release their next album independently, which will assure them of less publicity or advertising.
I view sellouts as people who change their style and their way of doing things in a way to get over with more people and become more popular. I think that the best examples of that in this thread are Metallica and the Goo Goo Dolls, for reasons which have already been outlined.
Honestly, Pearl Jam was probably one of the last bands I expected to see listed in this thread.
