zak52

I would say Minor Threat helped build up a following for Fugazi but I don't see what being from DC has to do with anything. Poster Children is from Champaign Illinois and are still going strong. I'm not sure how much Dischord contributes to their success. My point is a band doesn't have to have big successful albums to support themselves. Fugazi and Poster Children are two examples of bands doing that.

Hondo

When Iggy Pop was asked how he felt about his songs being used in commercials, he said something like, "I never made a dime on any of those songs the first time, why not make some now?" Ya gotta love Iggy!

"Selling out" is not inherently bad, but it does tend to take bands I like and turn them into bands I don't like. I don't begrudge them the opportunity, but it is often disappointing. I don't mind if a song is used in a commercial. I rarely watch them, so even if it's a song I like, I won't get burned out on it. I definitely do not like it when a band writes specifically to a mass audience (a la the Soul Asylum example). I look for music that is unique. As soon as they write to sell, they almost always lose that uniqueness.

I remember when Asia came out (hoo, I'm I dating myself). Me and all my prog rock friends were geeked. Members of Yes, Crimson and ELP? In the same band? It's gonna be GREAT! Well, of course it wasn't. It was the same corporate rock that Journey and everyone else was doing. Huge disappointment. But, heros and icons deserve to make a living too, I guess.

MJKTool

Fame & Fortune does not pay bills either. How do the majority of people in the U.S. pay the bills if they arent famous. Your talking about greedy excess.

What about bands like:

King Crimson
Dream Theater

I doubt they are starving for food. You see, some artists truely care about their work and will not whore it out to just any man in a suit who wants it. Not all artists seek tons of fame and money and are happy at the place they are in life....making a decent living off of their music., be it Touring, album sales, T-shirts etc.
I dont buy comments like Kid Rock makes saying that all that bands really want are girls and money. Not everyone is shallow as hell like him.

lostatmidnight

I remember, year, two ago when one of my all time favorite bands, Mazzy Star had a song in a Coke commerical...I walked out of the room, and quickly slipped back in, jaw shattering on the floor...That I could not believe. Sandoval and Roback who have shunned interviews and all the other glitz and glamour of fame, sell to Coke...Are they still musicians/artists? Yes. I have no idea how much the two make off royalities and what not, but you know what, if it gives them the financial security to be happy and continue living their accustomed life and create great, beautiful music (hoping for a new Mazzy album), then I'm for it. The commerical did not take away from the song its meaning and power for me.


quick note...I read, but never saw, another of my favorites, Counting Crows did a commerical? as Duritz said on the Crow's board in defense, it's getting his and the band's music out there.

fallow

DC helps because it has a very large political, punk rock scene: two things Fugazi subscribes to. Were they from Arkansas would they have the same success? I don't know. Dischord contributed because it is probably the most respectable punk record label still around, and likewise their bands get similar respect.

I'm saying that their independent musical attitude may not be the only factor contributing to their success.

Modest Mouse had a song on an MGD commercial. However, that song was from an album that is probably their most critically-acclaimed (I disagree with the critics). And I'm talking about critically-acclaimed by Pitchfork, not Spin or Rolling Stone.

zak52

I'm from Baltimore so I've been into the local DC/Baltimore seen for a long time now. I truely don't think Ian being from DC helps or hurts his band. Like I said Poster Children are from Illinois and they are still going strong. If people like a band they will follow them no matter where they're from. You can get the same message out there no matter where your from also. As far as Dischord goes, I wouldn't think they were a big money generator, since most of there bands are pretty obscure. But this isn't about success it's actually more about surviving on a lack of success.

fallow

I never said anything about Dischord being a money-generator. I said they get respect, and likewise their bands do.

zak52

What does respect have to do with this topic?

fallow

Because respect generates a fan-base. Therefore, their simple "love for the music" isn't necessarily the only thing getting them by. It was a counter to your earlier point that all they got by on was "love for the music."

What does "respect" NOT have to do with this thread? Isn't this entire thing based on LOSING RESPECT for a band once they "sell out????"

And besides, a band can love their music all they want. They aren't going to live off of it until they have fans that love it just as much as they do.

Giantrobo

I just assumed one would love the music if in a band. I didn't really think I needed to list that.

zak52

Respect doesn't build a fan base. Music builds a fan base. I respect a lot of bands but I won't buy their albums because I don't like their music.

The topic I was talking about, and you responded to was "playing for the love of the music doesn't pay the bills". What does respect have to do with that?

Well this is quite obvious. But some bands don't worry about drawing a huge fan base like some others. That's what playing for the love of music is all about.

GuessWho

Henry Rollins was quoted in a local paper today saying "selling out is when you do something you don't want to do"

With that great definition, I don't think any of us can judge when someone sells out, we're not in their heads.

Maybe they like that product their song does a commercial for, maybe they like flipping channels and hearing their song.

In fact, Rollins said that getting songs in commercials is a great idea and pointed out an example of a current commercial using a Stooges song. He thinks it's absolutely great that many people otherwise unexposed to the music, are hearing the Sttoges in some shape or form. The music is getting out.

If you feel selling out is a change in style, maybe they enjoy their more mainstream sound since everybody's tastes do change over time.

We're not ones to judge. We are not them.

zak52

Henry Rollins the MTV icon. Sellout

Giantrobo

When I first saw Rollins I thought he was so out there and cool. But now he's doing stand up/poetry and acting....


But he's still kinda cool

Jackskeleton

It's not just about getting the big bucks for your work, it's also about getting your message out. the whole thought of "Bringing the man down from the inside" in a sense.

Lets say for example you have a message you want spread out to the masses in your music. Do you want it to go by unheard? Would you mind if it was spread out or heard by more? that's why I say unless the band themselves is in the commercial pimping out the item I wouldn't consider it selling out. They are just selling the use of the song they wrote. If you offered me 10 bucks and told me you would pay me ten cents every time they used it for a few words that are written on a piece of paper. Sign that check for me. It's not about making money, it's also just getting the message out. Whats the point of a song if no one is going to hear it?

Chrisedge

So talented people (Sting is talented) are not allowed to collaborate with other artists? Sounds like you don't like the fact that P. Diddy used that song and Sting actually allowed him to, and helped him out. Why not admit that you simply don't like Rap/Sampled music/Puff Daddy (see the Jimmy PAGE comment) and want to claim it's a "sell out" because that's the cool thing to do.

Also, did Sting write Desert Rose for Jaguar? No, they wanted him and his song long after the fact. He simply opted to take the money, not much different than selling CD's or getting played on the radio.

I find it great that artists are free enough to do what they want with their music. If Sting wants to write songs that are popular and get played on the radio, good for him. If Tool wants to make records that only hardcore Tool fans will like, good for them. (Sting said years ago, it's not like you can sit down and go..."I'm gonna now write a top 40 song" )

What sucks is the things like John Fogerty getting screwed and NOT having the say in letting his songs get used for commercials.

Three Day Delay

Right back atcha!

Sting is undoubtedly talented. Incredibly talented. It's not about me liking/not liking rap (I do) or sampling (I do), or that Sting allowed his song to be used for sampling.

His appearance on MTV was far beyond sampling. He comprimised the integrity of his second-best song by singing it on stage with the least respected musician since Vanilla Ice. P. Whatever is doing what any idiot could do, and it is not sampling, it is lifting. He lifts the entire song and inserts different lyrics. This is not music writing, it is theft, and Sting willingly participated in it. Jimmy Paige is no better. Did Sting, as an artist and songwriter feel that P. Dilly's version was a better rendition of his song?

Most songwriters feel that their work is sacred and personal. If they realize financial gain from it, great. Most commercial advertisers feel that their their talent is sellable and of interest to the mass market. That's not song writing, that's a jingle.

I never said he did. He accepted the offer for the song and his appearance on their commercial because his album was not selling as he expected. SELL OUT.

Did he think that his song, and appearance, advertising a Jaguar was a true realization of the meaning of his song?

Artists can do whatever they want. I think it's great when they make money from a God-given talent. But that doesn't keep them from being whores.

It's like a woman that fights her entire life for respect for her accomplishments, then poses nude in Playboy. Yes, they are accomplished, but they whored themselves out. I don't care why or in what manner they did it, or for what dollar amount, they crossed the line.

And ask Britney Spears' writers how tough it is to write a top 40 song.

benedict

<small></small>Unless the woman was some kind of a model to start off with, it's nothing like that at all....

.... because some or other musician at some stage may make a marketing or career move which annoys you that act only diminshes him or her in your eyes and in those of like-thinking people: it is entirely subjective and all the argument in the world will not move the personal opinions that are being expressed into the realms of objective empirical fact.

Perhaps it is time for those involved here to agree to differ as to their personal take on the issue?