Yes I have. I don't let it bother me like some people do. I don't complain about it like some people do. If I walk down the street and someone says something to me that is offensive, why should I care what they think? If I listen to music and the artist says something offensive (trying to stay on topic here) what do I care? Just because an artist says something that you find offensive, doesn't mean you have to get in an uproar about it. The artist is only representing himself. If you can that upset about what some random person is saying, then you hold that person to way too high of a standard. They are just expressing their opinions. We all have a right to express our own opinions, and if you choose to listen to them, then it was your choice if you are offended by them. As long as these artist aren't infringing on other people's rights, which last time I checked, speaking doesn't, then they have the right to do it.

Conclusion: Don't get so easily offended by other people's words. Why should you care what they say?

I don't think it would be a problem if it were say a few people talking, but when you get an artist who spews this hate on a massive level to so many people, it becomes a big problem.

The hate is only getting "spewed" to those people who purchase the album. It is there choice to purchase the album, no one made them. You don't want to hear the hate, don't buy the album... simple as that. If you want to talk about spewing "hate on a massive level to so many people", lets talk about the senator who used the word ****** (notice how it is censored here) in his speach to the nation. Was he censored or repremanded? No! This is an important man who was using "hateful words" but no one said anything. Eminem is an artist, who is not nearly as important as a senator, and everyone is in an uproar. Shows you how backwards some people's thought process can get.

Im not a big rap fan, but lately ive been listening to Eminem (Mashall Mathers LP and The Eminem Show album). Some of the songs are quite good. i think every one should give the Eminem Show a listen to, you might be surprized. From what i hear most of the anti-gay terms are used in the context of "people get mad at me when i say the ******* word eventhough everyone says it". Does he actuially ever say anything like "i think you should kill the gays"?

Also about use of words like the n-word, does a half black person get to use it? can they only say it half the time? what about a person who is 20% or 10%? what about a white person from south africa, can they put 'african american' on their college application?

I dont find Em's lyrics offensive personally at all. And I agree that he is an extremely talented man, but his "bad boy" attitude is getting quite boring imo. I just find him extremely immature, thats all.

One thing I have always wondered is do the people who find Eminem offensive also find everything else in the entertainment industry offensive. If you stick to the theory that everything Eminem says on his album is what he believes, then surely the directors of such movies as American History X back the white supremecist organization and surely the actors and actresses who were in the movie were in it because they believed in what they were speaking. It couldn't be any other reason could it? And those who believe because he uses a word that he is therefore racist or prejudice then surely Disney believes that killing parents is the right thing to do since it happens in the beginning of some of their movies such as Bambi and it couldn't be that they are just telling a story. One last question why is it that when a rapper says something it is deamed offensive, but when a rock star says the same thing or idea it usually isn't?

One thing I haven't really seen mentioned in this discussion is Eminem's defense of the word "*******" in his lyrics. Eminem has said that he does not intend to use the word referring to homosexuals. He gave us a specific example. I don't remember it verbatim, but it went something like this. When a couple guys are hanging out and one is being stupid or annoying, someone will say "stop being a *******". Eminem says it's not really a reference to homosexuals.

Secondly, do not judge Eminem solely on his singles. I made this mistake and really didn't like him at all. A couple of my friends urged me to listen to a few other songs and I have grown into a fan.

Personally, I think Eminem is a great rapper. I don't see the fake quality. Instead, I just see a guy who stopped caring what the press labels him. How easy is a target that is caucasian when all his peers are African-American?

<b>innocentfreak</b>, one difference may be that the participants in the film don't usually write their own dialogue in the way that a rapper or other "musician" might have written his/her own lyrics.

I'm not sure of the distinction you draw between rappers and "rockstars". What kind of utterances did you have in mind made by "rockstars" that are comparable with what rappers migh have said but which have received difference media treatment?

<i>My</i> impression is that if a rockstar says or does something stupid or offensive then he/she gets panned.

for those at the beginning of this thread, you really have missed the point with Eminem. which is fine, because Em is an extremely complex anti-hero, a master of point of view who's ambiguous personas are not always meant for easy consumption (which is extremely ironic, considering his sales). I think you are not only cheating him, but cheating yourself when you take the easiest, most knee-jerk reaction to his lyrics and messages. like any complex, ambiguous character, he demands serious reflection. yes, at times he is out for mere crass and shock, to dance and sing and entertain with the best of the playground class clowns. but then on a dime he will say something completely poignant, if not profound, and moreover won't even have the courtesy to spell it out for you, like so many of our art-house "heroes". it is your job, as an intelligent listener, to discern the crass from the poignant, and to understand the context of his work. his quote where he says "The more you call me homophobic, the more homophobic I'm going to be." is meant to be extremely ambiguous, and whoever it was that interpreted that to be him trying to hide from responsibility is really missing the point. its just like everyone in this thread who either has not really listened to him, or who does not understand his context, or even the context of hiphop in general, or who even doesn’t like hiphop in general - he is whatever you say he is. if you believe him to be a homophobe, or a misogynist, then that is what he will be. why? because he is a product of the media. but at the same time, understand that the media is a product of him. he shapes the media as much as they shape him. he plays with the media, and they play with him. he makes money through the media just as they make money through him. he doesn’t give a ***** what they say about him, because he gets it. he understands that they use him as a tool for their own agendas, and will make him into whatever they want, regardless of who he really is in reality, or what he stands for in reality. proof? everyone on here who is going on and on about how he is so full of hatred towards others because of their gender or sexuality or whatever. eminem doesn’t espouse hate. he is extremely angry, and is full of hate towards the world in a teenage angst sort of way, but not at the people in it, in a general "oh he's just a (fill in the blank)-ist" kind of way. there is a difference. I cant think of a better way to phrase it than this: eminem doesn’t hate gay people, he hates people for being gay. he doesn’t hate you because you are a ***, he hates you because you are being a ***. if you don’t understand what that means, then really take a moment to think about it. think about where we live, think about how people are, think about how people talk, think about what words mean, what they carry, and how we use them ourselves. Eminem is a guy who is the best in the world at creating ambiguities about the world using creative double-entendre world plays. they are not always easy, and like all great art, they shouldn’t always be. that’s why no Kubrick film is in the top 10 grossing films. the difference though, and why Eminem is not held to the standard of Kubrick, is because Eminem is one of the first artists not to just speak to a universal American pop- audience, but to demand it. he just doesn’t speak from the world of pop-culture, he speaks to the world of pop-culture, and demands that his audience do the same. it contains enough self-reflexivity to make any post-modern hipster critic wet their pants - only the problem is they are too busy trying to ignore it since it exists so outspokenly in mainstream popular culture, the one place that has earned such cynism, that they either ignore all of its virtues, or dismiss it as "guilty pleasure". and the irony of that is their only awareness of him, and trust me they are aware (he would have it no other way), is the picture created by the media, the very outlet which they claim to be cynical of in the first place. and the interesting thing about that is his complete indifference to that image - he so completely understands himself that he continues to use the media to make himself more famous, even if that image of his is tarnished in the meantime. I just find it incredible that he has, in many ways, completely exploited this national stage, which holds everything as a context-free image, to use as he pleases. it is like according to the media, the USA hates this man, yet he breaks records with his CDs, and now his film. his skills as an MC aside, I don’t think American pop-culture has seen a more effective orchestrator of media-based commentary and manipulation since its very creation. he exists as the king in this sea of counter-culture American blandness, yet he altogether refuses to compromise his own artistry in any way. and that, in its own way, is worth commending. because he is whatever you say he is.

and I haven’t even touched on how he is elevating the formalism of hiphop to levels that its never been, taking the proverbial torch from Biggie and really going nuts with it.

and just since it’s the last message I read, in response to benedict-
I haven't listened to the album at all, but the 2001 grammy winner was Steely Dan for Two Against Nature, who ironically beat out Eminem for The Marshall Mathers LP that year. I have read from multiple sources that the album contains a song written from the point of view of a child molester. yet no one says a word about that album, and it even is awarded the top grammy. I can only guess why this double standard exists (if we reward the antithesis of what we want our white middle class kids to grow up to be, are we only prolonging, if not condoning, its threatening existence?), but please don’t fool yourself into thinking that there is no double standard, because there is.

Axl Rose and Guns-N-Roses "One in a Million" comes to mind.

There was a huge firestorm over that song and certain lyrics in it that referred to "police and ************/immigrants and f******."

What kills me about Eminem is the way MTV -- which was, at least a few years ago politically correct to a fault -- constantly kisses his ass and defends him.

Perhaps he's not saying anything? He's found a "character" that's successful and trading on that persona. Eminem is one of those people who I really don't understand either. Part of me says that he's very intelligent and the act is there merely to reflect society and a certain type of attitude, while another part wonders how close to reality the Eminem character is from the Marshall Mathers persona.

We can easily accept the concept of roleplaying a character when it's done through film, but baulk at viewing music the same way. Music is meant to be pure and a reflector of the person creating it. If Eminem is singing about rape, murder, homophobia, then Marshall Mathers must also, by default, believe in what he's singing...

Why?

When we see Hanibal Lector, we all know that Anthony Hopkins is not a mad pyschopath - just that he's portraying a character who is. Yet when we see Eminem, we don't all see that. Is it possible to view or create music in the same way that film or television are?

I don't know. As I said - part of me thinks that MM has found in Eminem a character that he knows will make him a fortune providing people still ask themselves "just how much is real". Perhaps the reason that MM is a "one style" artist, is that the moment people stop wondering, those same people will stop buying the CDs and the Eminem machine will cease to sell.

It will be interesting to see if he does reinvent himself in the years to come.

I think it will be very interesting to see what he does for his next album now that a good deal of the external drama has died down. A lot of hip-hop artists have trouble making that transition.

I would love to see him make a full-on battle album with his best diss raps and some new battles with other popular emcees.

The Insane Clown Posse's version of his Slim Shady song cracks me up everytime. Here's the lyrics.



Artist Insane Clown Posse
Album Unknown
Song Slim Anus

Eminem huh?
You wanna diss us?
You wanna diss Insane Clown Posse and Twiztid?
Well here goes a remix
From us to you
This is the truth about Slim Anus...

(Chorus)
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is Slim Anus
Hi, my name is huh?
My name is what?
My name is the fudgepacker
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who? (Excuse me)
My name is the nutlicker
Hi, my name is what? (Can I have the attention of your ass?)
My name is who?
My name is the buttsniffer

(Chorus)
Hi, kids do you like Anus?
I let Dr. Dre fill up my butt for one chance to be famous (Uh huh)
Wanna copy me and do exactly like I did (Yeah)
Try acid and get your butt pumped out like I did
My brain's dead weight, I'm tryin to get my head straight
But I can't figure out which Backstreet Boy I wanna impregnate?
Dr. Dre said Slim Shady you a cutie (Uh huh)
I'll give you a deal let me up in that booty (OK!)
Well since age 12 I felt like I'm someone else
Cause I hung my original self from the top bunk with a belt (Yup)
Got pissed off and ripped Pamela Lee's tits off
She don't know how to do Tommy Lee
I'd suck his dick off

(Chorus)
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it gets tapped dawg
Hi, my anus
My anus
My anus every now and then gets plugged up
Hi, my anus
My anus
My anus is occasionally reamed out
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus really needs to be filled up

(Chorus)
My English teacher wanted to flunk me in junior high
I told him to take his pants off, hooked him up, he let me slide
I pinched his ass, he winked at me
He chased me around the desk, I told him come and get me
Walked in the strip club, had my jacket zipped up
Flashed the bartender - and I tried to feel his dick up
Extra-terestrial runnin over pedestrians
In a space ship while they screamin at me
Let's just be friends
99% of my life I was lied to
I just found out my Mom screws more guys than I do (Damn)
I told her I'd grow up to be a famous rapper
She met Violent J I couldn't believe it when he slapped her
You know you blew up when the women rush the stands
And try to touch your hands but I need me a man
This guy at White Castle asked for my autograph
(Dude can I get your autograph?)
So I signed it "Dear Dave, thanks for the support, nice ass!"

(Chorus)
Hi, my name is huh?
My name is who?
My name is (They call me the pore plugger)
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is the itch itcher (Excuse me)
One of radio's wonder boys
They call me the butt itcher
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is (I've been called Dre's butt boy)

(Chorus)
Stop the tape this kid needs to be locked away (Get him)
Dr. Dre don't just stand there operate
I feeled up my balls and buttcheeks
Anal lube got my ass greasy for weeks
Stick your manhood between my cheeks (Yup)
Am I cumming or going, I can barely decide
I just drank a pint of semen - dare me to drive? (Go ahead)
All my life I was very deprived
Dre's butt is too sexy to hide
Take your pants off Dre I don't mind
Clothes rip like the incredible Hulk
I spit when I talk, I'll do any guy that walks
When I was little I used to get so hungry I would throw fits
Sometimes I sit and wish Dr. Dre had a set of tits
Get behind me Shady and grab me by my hips
If I do that then I can't kiss you on your lips
By the way if you see my Dad
Ask him if he seen my spread in Gay Al's porno mag

(Chorus)
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus gets tapped up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it's always getting plugged up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus occasionally reamed out
My anus it needs to be filled up
Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting plugged
Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting stuffed
You wanna diss us?
We don't even know you you little bitch
You wanna sit there and diss us?
You little bitch I'll slap your face off
That's what happens when you go up against the Psychopathic Phamily trick
You little bitch (Laughs)
Slim Anus!

Now that that is out of my system. I think he is a talented lyricist, but very over-rated too. A lot of it is for attention. Just look back to his "Infinite" album where he wasn't trying to be controversial. To sum up, he's talented, but it's a little overkill on trying to be controversial.

But a recommendation: Check out Chino XL.

Right now he has like three songs out there going after Ja Rule(Murder Inc) and Benzino. Good songs, they are on the internet only.

Many people already explained much of this but I had to chime in.

I love the fact that because you don't believe in his message (which I actually believe to be much different than most people) he is now no longer an artist. He is good at what he does, calling it only commercialized music that sells to angry white kids is a joke. He has an incredibly varied fan base. I hate calling anything commercialized music because for the most part people are more willing to allow some forms of commercialized music. Hmm god forbid I mention Beethoven in a rant about Eminem but what do you think classical music was born of? A deep desire in the artist to get their music heard because they love music. I guess at the time we would have called it pop.

If you don't like the message fine, don't support it in any way. You guys are so mad about his message but whatever it is, he has a right to be thinking it. Does it mess up our youth... probably the ones too stupid to know. The youth today are much more tolerant of gays than ever, did the people of the 30's need a rapper or radio show to tell them that gay people were evil? Nope they had parents, which IMO are a much easier way to influence the hearts and minds of children.

If Elton John made a song professing how stupid heterosexuals were would I be mad? Maybe a little, would I discuss him? Maybe, would I buy his stuff? Nope, would my kids turn gay if they listened to him and start to hate me? Nope... It all seems way to obvious when you turn it around.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RJainMJ
[B]One thing I haven't really seen mentioned in this discussion is Eminem's defense of the word "*******" in his lyrics. Eminem has said that he does not intend to use the word referring to homosexuals. He gave us a specific example. I don't remember it verbatim, but it went something like this. When a couple guys are hanging out and one is being stupid or annoying, someone will say "stop being a *******". Eminem says it's not really a reference to homosexuals.

I'm not gay and he doesn't offend me. But if 30 years ago some white guy was like, "I only call people *********** when they're being stupid. I'm not calling black people stupid but if one of your friends is being annoying he's a ***********." I don't think people would be so excepting... I don't know what my point is. I like eminem but still...