Today's CDs (11/13)
 

Anthology of American Folk Music Vol. 1
Anthology of American Folk Music Vol. 2
Hank Williams -- The Ultimate Collection
25 Years of Rough Trade Shops
Neu! -- Neu!
Missy Elliott -- Under Construction
Jay-Z -- The Blueprint 2
The Streets -- Original Pirate Material
Hoover -- Hoover
The Victoria Principle -- Mis En Scens

QOTD: Are music critics elitist?

Slobberbone - Slippage
Chuck Prophet - No Other Love
Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven!
Sigur Ros - ( )
David Cross - Shut Up, You F**king Baby!
Bjork - Greatest Hits
The New Deal

AOTD: Yes. By nature, music critics are elitist. You almost have to be elitist to have the audacity to make a living telling people whether what they're listening to is any good or not. That's okay though. I'm not a music critic, and I'm definitely an elitist.

Only one album today that's been sitting around for the past week. For some odd reason I've taken an unhealthy interest in sports radio during the day.

Christina Rosenvinge - Frozen Pool

As for the question:

Elitist? No more than those unwilling to explore beyond their own tastes, "I know what I like and I like what I know." I tend to find both "elitist" and "snob" used in reaction to criticism that eschews popular taste. However, the close-mindedness of the masses is overwhelmingly more hostile than those of critics who, for the most part, have experienced a wider spectrum of the art/media in question.

Foo Fighters: One by One

Soilent Green: Sewn mouth secrets

QOTD: Many are, as are many record store employees (High Fidelity anyone?) We have our own version here in town that's for sure....cough.....Used Kids Records.....cough. But I think everyone is a critic to a certain extent. I like to believe that a lot of bands I listen to are truly better than others for various personal reasons/ethics. I remind myself though that despite my personal opinions regarding music/bands, what matters most in the end is what you get out of it, regardless of who it is-and what anyone else, including the critics think.

Think for yourself!

I agree with every QOTD answer thusfar.

Atavism of Twilight - same
Steve Wynn - Flourescent
Dragonfly - Dragonfly
Thin Lizzy - One Night Only
10cc - The Very Best of
H2O - Unopuntosei
Cracker - Forever
Richard Thompson - Amnesia
Taste - The Best of
After Crying - Live: Struggle for Life

Are music critics "elitist?"

Depends on the critic.

It also depends on what you define as "elitist."

I dont' have a problem with a critic (or a fan) who doesn't like the same bands/albums that I do. I have a problem when that person dismisses those bands/albums as "bad" or "unimportant" just because that person doesn't like them. It's more than a bit condescending to the fans of those artists.

It's one thing to say, "I don't like it personally," but something else altogether to say, "That artist isn't any good." Too many critics despise entire genre's, and pan just about anything in that genre, regardless of its quality within that genre.

THAT is elitist.

Like I said, it depends on the critic. A lot of them are, but some aren't.

Duncan Sheik - Daylight (I love Sheik)
Ben Kweller - Sha Sha

I would say that everyone who critiques anything is elitist, be it a music, literature, theater, et al. critic. The real test is once you call someone an elitist falls on whether they are a good elitist or a bad elitist. Some people are not willing to consider contrary opinions about art because they think they are the elite. This is different from a critic who will listen to contrary views and honestly weigh if he feels they are more satisfactory than his own.

Not sure if that makes a whole lot of sense...but it's one of those things where I know it when I see it.

Peter Gabriel - Up
MC Paul Barman - Paullelujah
The Cure - Greatest Hits
v/a - Ocean's 11 soundtrack
Jack Johnson - Brushfire Fairytales
The Rat Pack - Live at the Sands
Pulp - This Is Hardcore
Pulp - Different Class

QotD: Some can be elitest. Others aren't. I can't complain about it, though, because I'm a total snob in some areas myself. :) Not that I berate people that don't agree with my opinion.

woofman - Employees at Used Kids are elitest? I've only been there once (don't get around campus all that much), but never interacted with the sales staff.

Is it possible to say that a band is unimportant, Erik?

Elvis Costello - When I Was Cruel
Bruce Springsteen - The Rising
Lyle Lovett - The Road to Ensenada
Beck - Midnite Vultures

Yes, music critics are elitist.

No, that's not necessarily a bad thing. There is a difference between being "elitist" and an "elitist snob." Being an elitist means you're willing to make distinctions between artists (or movies, books, whatever). Being an "elitist snob" means looking down on other people's tastes as not valid. ("You have bad taste.") I think saying that a particular band is derivative or a poor singer -- as long as it's backed up with as much "proof" as music criticism can actually provide -- is elitist, not snobbery. But the line is fine, and critics' written approaches to a band or genre can blur that line even more.

I have no problem with critics saying, "Popular X band is OK, but Obscure Z band is great," because it might clue me in to a band I've never heard before. I have no problem with critics saying, "Artist Q that you like is awful because..." I have a problem with critics that say, "People like you who like Band C are morons." I know that most critics don't say that, but it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between that and the previous statement.

Missy Elliott- Under Construction
Pearl Jam- Riot Act
The Streets- Original Pirate Material
Faultline- Your Love Means Everything
Sigur Ros- Von


yes.

Interpol - Turn on the Bright Lights

I agree to a great extent wth SAShepherd.

Yes, I think critics are elitist.

There is the good elitist which is the guy who loves music a little too much, has heard everything and can call musicians on their BS. If you tell this guy your favorite bands then he can probably recommend another few that you will love.

There is the bad elitist which is the guy who thinks he is better than you because of his taste. This elitist is the type who will say that someone isn't an artist or something isn't even music.

It depends.

If you are correct, and that band had little or no impact musically or otherwise then that's fine.

However, as in the case with KISS (which was the debate that brought up the "elitist snob" issue), it isn't (at least, not if you're making a blanket statement that they were unimportant and had little impact on the world of Rock and Roll).

Not that they are/were necessarily important to you or to the critics, but they had a HUGE impact on the world of Rock and Roll. You may not like it, but they did have a huge impact (expectations of live shows were raised tenfold after KISS put on their spectacles in the 70's, and dozens of artists were either directly influenced by KISS musically - Anthrax, Skid Row, Stone Temple Pilots, Poison, Alice In Chains, Motley Crue, and Iced Earth are only SOME examples - or were inspired by KISS to pick up a guitar for the first time - examples would include Garth Brooks among others).

Changing the face of Rock and Roll is pretty important, don't you think?

Now, if you were to say that, for example, RATT wasn't important, even though they were fairly successful over a 6 or 7 year span, then you wouldn't be off base, and I wouldn't have the slightest problem with that - even though I like RATT.

So, is it possible to say that a band isn't important?

Sure it is.

But if someone says it about a band like a Black Sabbath, or a KISS, or a Deep Purple, then it is merely an opinion, and one without the weight of the facts to back it up.

There's a big difference between saying that a band is unimportant to you, and saying that they were unimportant altogether. The Talking Heads, as an example, are unimportant to me, but I recognize their "importance" and impact on Rock and Roll. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not necessarily attacking your opinion (or the opinion of anyone else, for that matter), I'm just addressing a perceived unwillingness on the part of a lot of people to accept the opinions of others as being just as valid as their own.

And an unwillingness to accept the opinions of others as being as valid as one's own IS "elitist snobbery."

Damn, but that is a GREAT post. I agree wholeheartedly.

You can put me in the category of the guy who loves music a little too much. I can't help that - I've been a music fan literally all my life. I grew up listening to Big Band Jazz (and Jazz in general, mostly Big Band stuff, but not exclusively), and discovered Rock and Roll at age 9. Hard Rock and Metal really struck a chord with me - literally! I actually hum the guitar riffs half the time rather than the vocal parts!

They've had that reputation for a while-though I think they've mellowed lately. I've been going there for about 11 years now and have witnessed it myself. A lot of people I've talked to who have gone there agreed. It's even been jokingly mentioned in the Other Paper before. The collective mentality there has been if it ain't indie/garage rock, it sucks, if it's on a major, it sucks etc.... I still shop there occasionally, and they usually treat me with respect, not that I care what they think, but the good usually outweighs the bad though. Good selection of music at decent prices, and the staff usually is very knowledgeable.

I dunno Erik. Your argument is entirely based around hard rock and its superiority to all other music. I feel it's impossible to have an objective conversation with you about this.

When did I EVER say it was SUPERIOR to all other forms of music?

I'm merely saying it should be given the SAME weight as other forms of music, that Hard Rock and Heavy Metal are just as legitimate as critical favorites. That's all. Re-read my posts, you seem to be skipping the parts where I say that bands from other sub-genre's of Rock and Roll are just as legit as what I like.

Just one example.

I say that just because hard rock acts are the only ones you are arguing about. I realize that it's your area of expertise, so of course you would be inclined to talk about it, but it's still rather limited.

And who's to say that hard rock and metal are not critical favorites? I just don't think I get your idea of critics, other than "elitist snobs" who disagree with you. I mean, read Chuck Eddy, the <i>Village Voice</i> editor. He loves metal. Many critics do!

This may surprise you, but: Although I love the first three Talking Heads albums, I do not think they are an important band at all. Their only real addition to rock was a hybrid of soul and "world music," and not many other acts have really tried it since (primarily because it doesn't really sound all that great).

Well, I kind of see the Heads as being important as one of the leading bands in that New York scene of the mid to late 70's that produced bands like Blondie and the Ramones, etc. Wasn't that the CBGB stuff?

And they were important in that they showed that experimentation was OK - it was OK to stretch the boundaries of Rock and Roll.

Of course, it's just as OK to stay within the boundaries and just write and record good Rock and Roll. There's a place for both experimentation and tradition. Hell, how much experimentation has there been with Blues in the last 60 years? Not much, but it's still a VERY valid genre.

Cinerama ~ "Cinerama Holiday"
Lo Fidelity Allstars ~ "Feel What I Feel" (CD Single)
fabric 07 ~ Hipp-e & Halo

Listened to these CD's while waiting for AAA, that took three friggin' hours!!

But most don't.

I've seen so many mainstream media reviews of GREAT Metal albums where they slam it that I've come to expect it - I'm genuinely surprised if there is a positive review of a Metal album in the mainstream media. (By "mainstream media" I mean anything that isn't geared towards Hard Rock or Heavy Metal - where Metal isn't normally one of their main topics.) Most often it doesn't matter whether or not Metal fans think an album is great. An album can be hailed by the fans as one of the best Metal albums ever and the same album will be slammed by the critics - a lot of (not all, but a lot) these critics are predisposed NOT to like Hard Rock or Metal because they seem to think it's beneath them or something.


By the way, I just got

Jag Panzer - Mechanized Warfare
Jag Panzer - Thane to the Throne (concept album version of MacBeth)

Both came in the mail Tuesday. Great stuff.