Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Music Talk
Reload this Page >

Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

Music Talk Discuss music in all its forms: CD, MP3, DVD-A, SACD and of course live

Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

Old 05-21-02, 03:22 AM
  #26  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: The sprawling metropolis of Manassas Park, VA USA
Posts: 3,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by KnightLerxst
There are some interesting discussions going on at www.therushchronicles.com about the high levels of the album. Apparently the levels are so high that tracks are clipping like crazy.

Someone actually ran the individual wave files through cool edit pro and used a clip restoration feature to try to cool the levels down. I did this myself and it does make a difference.

Check this out...



This is what Peaceable Kingdom looks like in Cool Edit. The wav is completely peaking for almost the entire track, and all the tracks on the album are like this.

So either there is a bad printing, it is a bad mix, or Rush did this intentionally for a really raw distorted type of sound. The last option just sounds really wierd to me since there are other ways to achieve distortion, but then again this is Rush we are talking about.

Oh and for no particular reason here is the Rush wallpaper I made the other day.





This post is brought to you by the letter "3"


I've been doing the same thing w/cooledit pro and I must say the results are DRAMATICALLY better... this is an amazing piece of software!!

Here's the gist of the poster who gave the procedure on how to make 'corrected' .wav files of the tracks:


I was getting ready to start writing my own .wav processor to remove the clipping. But someone on a different message board said to try cool edit pro, which has a clip restoration feature.

It works pretty well, it makes a huge difference. It can't remove everything, but I'd say it improves the situation by 90%. It basically lowers the levels, then tries to rebuild the tops of the sine wavs that are missing. The only problem is that the clipping is so bad on the album, that a clipped area could have had multiple waves above it, and they are just replaced with one large wave. In this case you get an abnormally "tall" wave in relation to the rest of the music. Ok, that was a bad explanation, but anyway, If you follow my settings below, you will get good results.

You can get the "cool edit pro 2.0" software at www.syntrillium.com/download/ The demo works for 21 days or something and is fully functional to my knowledge. I also use "exact audio copy" to rip CDs. It's here: www.exactaudiocopy.de/eac6.html

So, rip the tracks with exact audio copy or whatever you're comfortable with. Then one by one open them with cool edit. Select "effects > noise reduction > clip restoration". In the "presets" box, there's an option to "restore lightly clipped". You can select that and click "ok" to achieve good results. I personally change "input attenuation" to "-5" from "-4" as it gives a little more headroom for the algorithm to play with without letting the waves get "too tall". Any more than "-5" and you'll start noticing the bass drum gets a little unruly. When you're done, go to "file > save as" and save it as a new .wav file.

Leave them there, burn them to a new CD, or convert them to .mp3s and enjoy!
Old 05-21-02, 03:24 AM
  #27  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,270
Received 1,793 Likes on 1,121 Posts
Originally posted by KnightLerxst




I love this album and the mix doesn't bother me too much. There are just some points where it is too damn muddy.
I hear ya bro.

Perhaps they're going for the Seattle sound?
Old 05-22-02, 05:25 PM
  #28  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The member formally known as Guitar_God
Posts: 1,240
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I bought this last week and to tell you the truth, I love the album very much. Rush sounds so much better without the midi synthesizer keyboards over the guitar parts. Rush sounds so much different without the keyboards. All they need is drums, bass and guitar without the synthy sounds taking over the guitar parts on the album.

I would have to agree with you on Geddy Lee's singing on the album. His vocals are nothing new and he still sounds the same but what I like the most about the album are the music and the lyrics.

Neil Peart is probably one of the best lyricists alive right now IMO. Peart can write some wonderful lyrics and he's good at making you remember the Rush songs pretty well. Peart is very creative in lyric writing.

Alex Lifeson is one of my favorite guitar players and this is what I love the most about this album is Lifeson's guitar playing. Lifeson's gutiar playing is so great and so fresh that really sends you out in space when he plays. Everytime I hear him play, you know it's him right away. His guitar playing is loud without the keyboards. I once read an interview with Rush in a magazine somehwere and Lifeson said so himself that he hated keyboards. Lifeson said he hated keyboards so much that he doesn't want any keyboards to be in Rush anymore. He just wants guitar, bass and drums. That's it.

Even though I love Rush's older materiel better, I still do think "Vapor Trails" was well done album. My favorite Rush albums are,"Test for Echo", "Moving Pictures", "2112" and "Signals".

Here are my favorite songs off "Vapor Trails" album:

"One Little Victory"
"Ceiling Unlimited"
"Ghost Rider"
"Vapor Trail"
"Earth Shine"
"Sweet Miracle"

I got tickets to see this band this summer at SPAC in Saratoga Springs, New York on July 7. I can't wait to see them live as I never saw them live before and I've always wanted to. After 5 long years, Rush can still rock the house and the concert I'll be going to will be an amazing show. It's so awesome to see Lee, Lifeson and Peart back together again. Rush is one of my very favorite bands.
Old 05-22-02, 05:55 PM
  #29  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,270
Received 1,793 Likes on 1,121 Posts
Guitar_God you said:



I can't wait to see them live as I never saw them live before and I've always wanted to.
You are in for an awesome audio/visual experience!

RUSH is one of the rare band that actually care about CONCERT SOUND quality.

I'm hoping they use their "surround sound" setup(rear speakers usually used in the indoor venues) for these shows. They use them to play some choruses, drum solo sounds, and sound efx.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 05-22-02 at 05:57 PM.
Old 05-24-02, 02:47 PM
  #30  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The member formally known as Guitar_God
Posts: 1,240
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thanks for the info on the Rush show. With their new sound system, I bet it will be even more amazing. I'm so psyched about the show and can't wait for it.
Old 09-18-13, 01:44 PM
  #31  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,270
Received 1,793 Likes on 1,121 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

RUSH remixing "Vapor Trails" and re-releasing it. I remember all they criticism of this album's production quality, or lack there of....

Lifeson: Vapor Trails is an important record – our return after a horrible nightmare



You say that the sound of the finished album ‘bothered’ you and Geddy. What exactly was wrong?

The original mastering was the problem. It was poorly done. At the time we should have remastered. It bothered us forever – particularly Geddy, who had the task of remastering of the original album and feels responsible for it. It irked him for many years. The original version is hard on your ears, because the mastering was pushed so hard, there’s distortion and so much compression – I found it very difficult to listen to it.

But why go back and remix it – why rewrite history?

There was so much invested in that record and it just didn’t sit with us that we had this blemish on our recording history. We wanted to rectify that. I’d like to remix every record we did – maybe update some parts. But that’s crazy, you know? You don’t do that – records are moments in time, markers of these different periods of progression and growth. But this one was a very important record – our return after a horrible nightmare. And it deserved better.
Old 09-18-13, 03:01 PM
  #32  
DVD Talk Legend
 
bunkaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago West Suburbs
Posts: 16,391
Received 201 Likes on 134 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

So I guess we can expect a better sounding Clockwork Angels sometime in 2023?
Old 09-18-13, 09:12 PM
  #33  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: behind the eight ball
Posts: 19,961
Received 237 Likes on 149 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/D7JJryuRXXM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sounds better, but still not really all that good.
Old 09-19-13, 03:09 PM
  #34  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,435
Received 32 Likes on 26 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

Old 09-19-13, 08:52 PM
  #35  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Traxan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,474
Likes: 0
Received 30 Likes on 20 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

You are all forgetting that this was a shaky album put together by a band that had effectively disbanded. Following the death of Neil's wife and daughter, the band was broken up. That is a fact. Geddy said "Rush was quietly put away" after Neil lost his wife. So the band was very rusty.

No artist survives trauma unchanged and Neil is no exception. His lyrics are much more personal, and a lot angrier. Just read the lyrics to "The Stars Look Down." And most fans who have debated it believe "Earthshine" is a love song to Carrie, his new wife.

The main problem is the production. This famous blog entry went over it at length. A new version is due October 1 that is remixed and remastered and should sound significantly better.

What I wish they would do now is go back to Rio and record another DVD. That audience was insane. The problem was Neil was real particular about the cameras being too close, so they used low def cameras around him but high def for the rest of the shots. Well you can't have that in a video. So they went with the lowest common denominator and low-def'ed the whole thing. Damn it Neil you can be such a bitch some times.

Last edited by Traxan; 09-19-13 at 09:05 PM.
Old 09-20-13, 01:39 AM
  #36  
Dan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the straps of boots
Posts: 27,999
Received 1,181 Likes on 834 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

I love this album. It's the one that made me realize that Rush existed (I was 20 at the time, and no one I knew listened to them, and my parents only ever listened to "oldies" and country, so that's what I grew up with, until my friends introduced me to alternative stuff). I blind-bought it and listened to it on a 3-hour road trip and fell in love. Too bad the mastering was shit (I made an alternate copy using the Cool Edit Pro instructions mentioned 11 years ago (holy shit. 11 years.)

I'm going to buy the remastered version, without a doubt.
Old 09-20-13, 04:07 PM
  #37  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

i think its a great cd but the mix is so bad i cant listen to it. hopefully the remix fixes that.
Old 09-23-13, 04:41 PM
  #38  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Traxan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,474
Likes: 0
Received 30 Likes on 20 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

Geddy just did a long interview with Rolling Stone. They are taking 2014 off completely. Here's what he said on VT.



Finally, tell me about this Vapor Trails remix. I've been hearing rumors about it forever. What finally made it happen?

It's kind of a long story, but there are essential building blocks to what lead to a remix. You have to put yourself back to that period of time. We had just gone through a very sad and dark four or five years after Neil's family was so tragically taken from him. When he reached out to us and said he wanted to come back and attempt to work together, we wanted to do it in an environment that was as comfortable to him as possible with as little pressure as possible.

At that time, we had talked to various producers and one of them was David Bottrill. In the end, Alex and I looked at each other and said, "I don't think it's fair to Neil to bring a stranger in the room when he's kind of in a delicate state." We said, "Let's get Paul Northfield. He's not only worked on many of our albums, but is a very close friend, so Neil is comfortable from the get go."

Neil had to learn how to play the drums again, how to get his confidence back. It was a lot of slow baby steps to getting back to us at our peak. The writing process took a really long time. Alex and I would work all day in the control room and Neil would practice and write lyrics. We kind of blocked out a small studio in Toronto and we were there for 14 months making this record. It was a long and emotional and stressful time to the end, because we were close to the finish but we had spent so much time on it. We were way too close to it.

Had we been wise, we would have said, "Okay, we're taking a two-month break and then bring someone in to mix it when we all have fresh ears." We figured, "The show must go on! People are expecting the record now." The record company had been waiting and waiting for it. So we just pushed through and got it mixed. We went through two different people to mix it because we were so unhappy with it. We just believed in the record, but in the end we were just fried.

Everybody went their own way. I took the record to New York to master it. By the time I had a couple of weeks off to hear it clearly, I realized we had kind of over-cooked the record. The mixes were really loud and brash. The mastering job was harsh and distorted, but by then, it was out of my hands. It was already out.

It's a terrible feeling that, due to lack of objectivity, you let an imperfect piece of work get out there. But the songs are very strong and people really responded to the record and people were welcoming us back. The sonic defects of it got lost in the excitement of the bands return to functionality. It's always been a bee in my bonnet. We had various people attempt to remix it and remaster it over the years, and it still didn't satisfy.



Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...#ixzz2fkpsw4EM
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Last edited by Traxan; 09-23-13 at 04:55 PM.
Old 09-28-13, 06:46 AM
  #39  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Lateralus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Valley of Megiddo
Posts: 9,570
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

Huge difference, you can actually hear all the instruments, looks like you can listen to the entire album here:

http://www1.rollingstone.com/hearitn...yer/rush1.html
Old 10-01-13, 06:57 PM
  #40  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,862
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

Holy threadbump batman!

I've listened through track 4. You can actually hear the instruments, and you can hear moments where Neil's timing is actually slightly off.

After all of these years I still think this is one of Rush's top 5 albums.
Old 10-06-13, 05:21 PM
  #41  
Dan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the straps of boots
Posts: 27,999
Received 1,181 Likes on 834 Posts
Re: Thoughts on Rush - Vapor Trails

Listened to about half of the remixed CD yesterday.
Maybe it's just because I'm older and wiser... or that I'm just listening even more closely than before, but I don't think I ever realized that Ceiling Unlimited had a short guitar solo in it.

I love this album.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.