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Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

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Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Old 07-07-23, 06:02 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Oh those wacky honest trailers. They are spot on...
Old 07-07-23, 09:19 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Speaking of Last Crusade, there was actually a part that made me tear up that had never affected me before.
Spoiler:
At the end when Indy was hanging from the crevasse trying to reach for the Grail, Henry Sr. was trying to pull him up. Previously, I just thought it was an amusing scene since Indy is doing the EXACT thing Elsa just did that got her killed. But this time watching it when Henry Sr.ís voice becomes really calm and he calls his son ďIndianaĒ for the first time. It hit me like it never had before.




After seeing it again, itís probably my favorite single scene in the series. Such a great father/son moment.
I think it's on a par - actually slightly below - my favorite similar moment: where Henry Sr, Sallah and Marcus think Indy's having fallen over the cliff has killed him. Marcus and Sallah are in shock, but Sir Sean is visibly and audibly devastated. Those two moments (alongside the bonding and snarking between the two) give a firm indication that the distance between them that's been there since childhood (and exacerbated by his mother's death) has given way to respect and love. One can easily imagine that the final years between them were much closer and easier.
Old 07-07-23, 09:24 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by ntnon
I think it's on a par - actually slightly below - my favorite similar moment: where Henry Sr, Sallah and Marcus think Indy's having fallen over the cliff has killed him. Marcus and Sallah are in shock, but Sir Sean is visibly and audibly devastated. Those two moments (alongside the bonding and snarking between the two) give a firm indication that the distance between them that's been there since childhood (and exacerbated by his mother's death) has given way to respect and love. One can easily imagine that the final years between them were much closer and easier.
And interestingly, both scenes were played for laughs just moments before the emotional reactions.
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Old 07-07-23, 09:34 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by CristonCole
Indy lamenting his separation from Marion? Yeah, I think youíll find few who find that bit funny. There is nothing funny about seeing the Indy we all knew and loved now living out his life alone and depressed.
As sad as it is to see, and I doubt anyone really disagrees that Crusade should have been the final IJ film, IF there was to be an 'old Indy' story, how do you imagine he would be?

Spoiler:
Although I would have hoped he'd be happy and content with Marion, and bring her along on mini-adventures, I don't think either of their characters were really likely to settle down. The fact that they did, and it took their child's death to create a rift is as good of a testament to their longevity as any other. And writing out Mutt was a necessity for a variety of reasons. As a teacher, he was a bit of a flirt... which would have diminished with age. He also presumably lived for his non-teaching world-roving hunts.. which age and the shrinking of the world would have put a dampener on. Inevitably he'd have wound up depressed - as much at the passage of time as anything. Ruing paths untaken and longing for the halycon days of youth while reliving me tally past triumphs.

This was almost as good of a send-off as could have been made now. It lacked enough Marion, it was hamstrung by Skull and there was a stacked deck because Crusade was So Good as a film and an epilogue. But.. this was a solid film.
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Old 07-07-23, 10:44 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by asianxcore
One thing I wanted to add was how emotionally vapid this entire film felt. Whether purely on accident, this is echoed in the scene where
Spoiler:
Renaldo is killed on his boat. While Indiana Jones yells that his friend was killed, the script and the characters don't seem to really care, so neither should we as an audience.

I agree. That was a poorly underscored moment badly served by the script and pacing. For all of it being a long and slightly bloated film, several parts seemed oddly rushed.

Originally Posted by asianxcore
There's a fascinating line from Mads Mikkelsen's character Jurgen near the end of the film where he says to Indiana Jones that the world no longer cares for men like them.

A film about the actual effects of time to Indiana Jones would've been a more fascinating entry, than slapping him into another romp in Harrison Ford's 80-year old body.
..this was that film. Age, regret, choices, paths taken and not taken, opportunities lost, regained and lost again. He failed his friend(s), his goddaughter, his son and his wife. He couldn't do half the things he'd hoped to do and several he needed to because he was too old or jaded or spent. The world had moved on, and he was a relic of the world left behind.
Spoiler:
And then he was kept from - literally - living in the past, too.

It was very bittersweet, and I think will age reasonably well. For a sequel to a sequel that should never have been made, at least.
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Old 07-07-23, 11:03 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

^ But thatís the problem. This is Indiana Jones! A franchise whose leading character is a dashing adventurer whoís been involved in unbelievable supernatural situations, armed with a whip and fedora while daringly fighting Nazis with punches that literally echo. Heís always had comedy rolled into his exploits, and who has managed to triumphantly come out on top in a few-good manner with each adventure. And itís got one of cinemas all-time heroically rousing soundtracks. Indy doesnít need (or deserve!) a bittersweet ending.

His final send-off should have had audiences standing up and cheering, not feeling melancholy as they slowly walk out of the theater.
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Old 07-07-23, 11:23 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
This is Indiana Jones! A franchise whose leading character is a dashing adventurer whoís been involved in unbelievable supernatural situations, armed with a whip and fedora while daringly fighting Nazis with punches that literally echo... [a]nd itís got one of cinemas all-time heroically rousing soundtracks. Indy doesnít need (or deserve!) a bittersweet ending.

His final send-off should have had audiences standing up and cheering, not feeling melancholy as they slowly walk out of the theater.
The proper one (Crusade's sunset) did that. But then after years of prevaricating, they decided to update the formula and add a whole bunch of not-Indy elements into the mix.

Trying to just ignore Crystal Skull and making a straight sequel to Crusade in the mould of.. Superman Returns would have been weird and worse and probably required recasting. But making a sequel to Skull required acknowledging that Time Has Past and Things Have Changed. They did what they could to roll back the changes. Viz:
Spoiler:
Remove Mutt. Reinstate the Nazis. Dangle a holy relic. Recall Sallah. Echo the highlights of earlier films as a grand romp through past glories. Reunite him finally with Marion.

But the passage of time was such that there could be no real standing ovation and big heroic send-off - for that he'd have needed to die saving someone the audience cares about as much as him, and there isn't anyone at that level. So the next best option was the ending they went with - rehabilitating one individual and reuniting with another. He's as happy as he can be, and proven he's still got it.
Old 07-08-23, 07:01 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
His final send-off should have had audiences standing up and cheering, not feeling melancholy as they slowly walk out of the theater.
I've seen a few comments here and there about the ending not being "big" enough. Raiders ended with Marion and Indy walking off after the meeting about the Arc and with a final shot of a warehouse. So, think the ending of Destiny is a fitting bookend with Marion and Indy and a final shot of the hat.
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Old 07-08-23, 12:10 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
What college has finals in August?
One that uses quarters instead of semesters? Georgia State University was on quarters when I went there in the mid 90s, and summer quarter ran from late May until mid-late August. Two of my best friends graduated from UGA in August, 1996, as well.
Old 07-08-23, 12:39 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

I devoured these books as a kid, and they are better and felt more "Indy-like" than anything we got in the last two. Yes, that is also probably nostalgia talking on my part...but they certainly couldn't have been any worse.

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Old 07-08-23, 05:08 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Just got back from seeing it and I really enjoyed it. It felt way more nostalgic than "Crystal Skull". Bigger sets and better action. Also, I thought Phoebe Waller-Bridge was really good. She and Ford had terrific chemistry IMO. It also had an extremely satisfying ending. I'm sorry to see it tanking at the box-office.
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Old 07-09-23, 12:05 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Iíve thought about this all day and canít really decide which is worse, this or Crystal Skull. This for instance is actually pretty good for the first 1/3. Yes the de-aged Indy isnít great and that fucking train hopping scene is horribly rendered. The middle third is what destroys this film. Iím sorry PWB is not the right fit for this film. The new Short Round is even worse. Once the get to the caves and tomb section, it improves slightly, but I think itís far too late. Why in the fuck did they think it was a good decision to make a sad sack Indy finale? Why not make him go out on a high note? Why is he a depressed old teacher at some shit college? When I buy this when it comes out, Iíll shorten this thing to about 50 minutes and still be disappointed. Last Crusade forever.
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Old 07-09-23, 12:23 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

I actually still have a few of those books. They were pretty awesome reads when I was a kid and craved more Indiana Jones content.

BTW, Richard Wenk, one of the authors of these books, is now an accomplished screenwriter. He wrote the Equalizer trilogy and Expendables 2.


Originally Posted by Spiderbite
I devoured these books as a kid, and they are better and felt more "Indy-like" than anything we got in the last two. Yes, that is also probably nostalgia talking on my part...but they certainly couldn't have been any worse.

Old 07-09-23, 12:28 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Saw it tonight with my fiancťe and some friends. I thought it was decent. I didnít have a lot of expectations for it really. Iím still of the mindset that the series should have ended with The Last Crusade.

The opening scene was enjoyable. The deep fake stuff is still hit or miss but the idea behind it worked well enough.

The movie made Ford believable enough as an older Indiana Jones. Not a ton of action but enough. I was a bit disappointed that he barely uses his whip and he doesnít have his own gun (assuming Disney didnít want to show him having his own but it was okay if he got a hold of one occasionally?).

Helena and Teddy were fine characters I suppose. Not my favorites of the franchise but neither outright annoyed me. I was a little surprised with the Mutt reveal but I guess thatís a way to write him out of the franchise.

The time travel aspect surprisingly worked for me. Could have been way more ridiculous. Weíve seen aliens in the franchise so weíre already in the realm of science fiction with the franchise.

The ending was fine. I liked how Indy and Marion reunited. Not sure if I liked that the last person we saw on screen was Helena. Could have just ended with Indy and Marion and then had him grab the hat.

I think overall itís a fine ending for the character but if I was ranking them this would still probably be the fourth best with a considerable gap between the first three films and the last two.
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Old 07-09-23, 12:53 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Why are most saying the kid in this is so terrible? And worse than Short Round!? Other than the airplane scene, he's wasn't obnoxious and didn't overact. Like Ke Huy Quan. It was just a serviceable performance overall at best.
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Old 07-09-23, 01:15 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

I really wish they had ended with Indy staying with Archimedes. Feels like an appropriate ending. As as I indicated earlier, the thought that Marion would feel the need to file for divorce after losing her son and blaming Indy, but then rush back to be by his side as if nothing had happened after a phone call from someone who was very likely a stranger (or at very best an acquaintance she hadn't heard from in decades) is really insulting to her character. As if she only exists to give comfort to Indy and has no autonomy or agency.
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Old 07-09-23, 04:03 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Daytripper
Why are most saying the kid in this is so terrible? And worse than Short Round!? Other than the airplane scene, he's wasn't obnoxious and didn't overact. Like Ke Huy Quan. It was just a serviceable performance overall at best.
Some people forget how irritating Short Round was/is; some object to the idea of a kid sidekick in general; some don't like the callback/reminder; some are focusing on the reasonable criticisms (learning to fly a plane well enough from no experience), etc.
Old 07-09-23, 04:08 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Decker
I really wish they had ended with Indy staying with Archimedes. Feels like an appropriate ending.
Definitely not - he'd have to have made a hard turn from "it belongs in a museum" & teaching people to learn from hostory to wanting to rewrite it wholesale. That's a character evolution too far.

Originally Posted by Decker
As as I indicated earlier, the thought that Marion would feel the need to file for divorce after losing her son and blaming Indy, but then rush back to be by his side as if nothing had happened after a phone call from someone who was very likely a stranger (or at very best an acquaintance she hadn't heard from in decades) is really insulting to her character.
Quite the oppposite for me - first, that does not strike me as the reason for the divorce (far more likely that he withdrew into himself, blaming himself and she slowly lost the ability to sideline her own grief to try and pull him out of it, causing a rift, etc.) and therefore it is a great CREDIT to her character and their relationship that all it took was someone - known or not - saying "he needs you" to bring her right back. She loves him, he loves her, they just 'lost their way' because of a devastating loss that may-or-may-not have involved blame and finger-pointing.

Originally Posted by Decker
As if she only exists to give comfort to Indy and has no autonomy or agency.
This is close to my feeling, however. I wish she'd been in more of the film, and that she and Sallah had played a substantial role in some part of the proceedings.
Old 07-09-23, 08:27 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

I thought it wouldíve been a very cool, meta nod to Harrison Fordís real life if, in the second scene, instead of Indy being woken up to The Beatles it was a song from The Soft Parade (ie. ďTouch MeĒ), The Doorsí fourth studio album. That album was released in July 1969 (same year this film is set) and Ford briefly went on tour with the band that summer as a lighting technician and camera operator (and probably one-time weed dealer lol).
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Old 07-09-23, 10:35 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Iím glad that Indy didnít stay in the past. I thought that was where the story was going or that he would die there and I was going to be so irritated by it.

I always get a little worried about how legacy characters are going to be treated ever since the Sequel Trilogy.

Marion coming back didnít bother me. Itís not as though Indy did something horrible to make her leave him. They were driven apart by Muttís death. Iím sure Helena told him that he was in a rough spot and does really care for her still. Worked for me.
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Old 07-09-23, 11:17 AM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya
I actually still have a few of those books. They were pretty awesome reads when I was a kid and craved more Indiana Jones content.

BTW, Richard Wenk, one of the authors of these books, is now an accomplished screenwriter. He wrote the Equalizer trilogy and Expendables 2.
I sold mine for a small ransom on eBay several years ago. I still have my James Bond versions.

And whatever happened to that R.L Stine guy???

Originally Posted by Daytripper
Why are most saying the kid in this is so terrible? And worse than Short Round!? Other than the airplane scene, he wasn't obnoxious and didn't overact. Like Ke Huy Quan. It was just a serviceable performance overall at best.
I think his character felt shoehorned in and was an unnecessary convention to the story. On top of that, he wasn't a very interesting character and does some heavy lifting at the end that is just plain absurd (yeah, yeah, yeah...I know they travelled back in time...yu accept that but you can't accept a kid who has never flown a plane to fly one perfectly...blah blah blah). He seemed to be there more for a future sequel/spin-off than for this movie.

And sure, Short Round was annoying at times in Doom. But when I saw it in 1984, I was 11 years old. So, we were near the same age, and I enjoyed seeing the kid there helping Indy like a son more than a sidekick and I would have loved to have been in his place at the time. Cut to now and as a father of a son myself, the parental aspect of their relationship strikes me even more today. I swear I get tears in my eyes every time Short Round feels betrayed by Indy and he is trying to wake him up from the "deep sleep" and then when he comes out of it...man...the emotions on their faces are just too good.

Fuck Willie screaming and fuck the raft scene but other than that, Doom is a fantastic movie. It has the best villain of all the Indy movies as well as a top-notch performance by Ford. I don't get the hate Doom receives and the adoration that Crusade gets, especially after watching them both recently.


Old 07-09-23, 05:06 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Spiderbite
Fuck Willie .
Spielberg is way ahead of you on this one.
Old 07-09-23, 06:53 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by ntnon
Some people forget how irritating Short Round was/is; some object to the idea of a kid sidekick in general; some don't like the callback/reminder; some are focusing on the reasonable criticisms (learning to fly a plane well enough from no experience), etc.
Agree that adding a token kid character was unnecessary. But he was far from terrible. Like the insufferable Quan.

Originally Posted by Mike86
Iím glad that Indy didnít stay in the past. I thought that was where the story was going or that he would die there and I was going to be so irritated by it. I always get a little worried about how legacy characters are going to be treated ever since the Sequel Trilogy. Marion coming back didnít bother me. Itís not as though Indy did something horrible to make her leave him. They were driven apart by Muttís death. Iím sure Helena told him that he was in a rough spot and does really care for her still. Worked for me.
I'm also glad that Indy didn't stay in the past as well. It would have been a sad ending to the series for me. I thought the way they ended it was perfect.


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Old 07-09-23, 07:51 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

You guys are crazy. Short Round is the best. "No time for love, Dr. Jones!" is my favorite line to quote in the entire series. And if you don't feel something when Indy reconciles with Shorty after coming out of his trance, then you're probably dead inside. Forget Marion. Short Round is the great love of Indy's life.
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Old 07-09-23, 08:09 PM
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Re: Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny (2023, D: Mangold) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

I just re-watched my 4K of Temple of Doom last week and I loved Short Round. There's just some people for whatever reason who hate child actors.

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