GoldenJCJ

I edited my response to tanman for a little clarification. I was just comparing movie reviews for movies that have stood the test of time to Avatar’s reviews. I probably would have been a little clearer if in hadn’t mentioned any other movies by name. It really doesn’t matter what movie’s reviews I was comparing it to, just that the Avatar movies are judged on a different scale than other movies. Beyond its technical achievements, the Avatar movies are forgettable, which is were the topic in this thread had gone.

Draven

I found the 3D from the original Avatar okay at best. But I think 3D in general is stupid and I’m glad it has returned to the dustbin where it belongs (until someone tries to bring it back again in 30 years).

My issues with the series is I think it’s pretty middle-of-the-road, with bland scripts, forgettable characters, little to no humor and nothing particular compelling about the production design. And while they make billions, they are forgotten the second you walk out of the theater which I still maintain is pretty weird for the most money-making movies of all time. Usually they have SOMETHING to hang their hats on or some influence on the culture at large.

As for the Marvel complaints, I have no issues with the MCU being interconnected because that’s literally how comic books work.

tanman

Oops. I was totally wrong on that. For some reason I thought Tokyo Drift went DTV. I did say I wasn't familiar with the franchise and hadn't seen any of the movies.

tanman

I can see all of those complaints except production design. You can see how much thought really went into all of the details in either movie. It's a fully realized lived in world.

I think I maybe see why Avatar doesn't generate much buzz after release. Look at the top 10 grossing movies of all time domestically. All of them except for Avatar and Titanic are sequels. Even if you expand it to the top 25 only Barbie and Mario aren't a sequel or a remake. And every single one of those movies are based on properties and IP (or actual events in the case of Titanic) that go back decades. They make a cultural impact because they've already made a cultural impact over the course of decades of other movies/toys/video games/comic books. These are all known properties. And then you have Avatar whose whole IP only consists of two movies at this point. So of course there's not much to talk about because there's not much history there. Anytime a comic book movie or another Star Wars movie comes out there's plenty to talk about.

Also I wonder how many people that disparage Avatar also complain how the only movies that come out are sequels or remakes or comic book movies.

Draven

Pandora actually makes no sense. All plant and wildlife is connectable by USB? Everything has six legs for some reason? It's just sparkly and colorful.

I mean, just to pull one bit of this out, there have been other Titanic movies. The reason that Cameron's Titanic did what it did was because it checked every quadrant - well-acted, incredible production design, compelling script, funny, romantic and fantastic action set pieces. That movie deserves the success it received.

Well, Star Wars originally only had three movies and made quite the impact. Kids are still dressing up like OT Star Wars characters for Halloween. When was the last time you saw a "Jake Sully" or "Quaritch" costume? Side note, I had to go look up Quaritch's character's name because it is completely out of my brain.

I thought Avatar and its sequel were pretty middle-of-the-road but I have no issues with sequels, remakes or comic book movies in general as long as they are good. Hollywood has always done remakes (the 1939 Wizard of Oz is a remake), I love sequels because I love seeing stories continue with characters I enjoy (I also read a lot of books that have multiple sequels for the same reason) and I've been wanting the current iteration of Marvel movies on the big screen since I was a comic book fan growing up in the 80s.

bluetoast

Star Wars makes no sense. All living beings are connected by an invisible force composed of microscopic organisms?

Draven

Yep! And ships don’t make sounds in space, lightspeed isn’t real, all planets apparently have one climate and lightsabers are impossible. But I ignore those things because the movies are so freaking fun to watch.

Noonan

Don't forget gravity. The gravity on every planet is exactly what it needs to be for humans to walk normally and not die instantly.

tanman

Just because you don't understand it or like it doesn't mean it wasn't well thought out. Doesn't make any sense to who? Just because it's a foreign concept doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. It's Scifi. It's not about it making sense it's about building a world that consistently works within the rules they've established. And it's really hard to argue they didn't take their time in making Pandora feel like a real world.

Well there you go. It's your own bias on what you'll accept and what you won't. Doesn't mean they didn't do a good job. Pandora is a much more consistent, well thought out world than Star Wars.

Totally agree. But it's only 1 movie out of 25 and I would argue with how infamous of an incident it was there is a lot of history already built in to the movie. So in a way it's already an existing property.

Yep totally agree with all your points. I guess I'm not really expressing my thoughts very well. I'm not arguing Avatar deserves more praise. I just think it deserves less hate. It's not a cultural phenomenon. I totally agree that Star Wars had much more of a cultural impact than Avatar did. Of course it did it's Star Wars. But again how many IPs have really achieved that? I'm just saying that Avatar should be judged for what it is. It's just a popcorn flick.

Ash Ketchum

Watching episodes of Star Trek: TOS recently, it's pretty glaring how they always send their three top officers (Kirk, Spock, McCoy) down to every planet they visit, no matter what dangers may lurk there, and they never need space suits or helmets or weighted boots or anything. And everyone on those planets speaks English, even when they're not human. I think it was Star Trek that prepared us for PLANET OF THE APES (1968) and the apes speaking and writing English and Taylor (Charlton Heston) never even wondering why. I loved PLANET back then, but when I watched it on cable recently for the first time in decades, I thought it was absolutely ridiculous--for a variety of reasons.

fujishig

And most of the aliens look human or are at the very least humanoid. But you're just reminding all of us why it's sometimes better to have the innocence (and ability to suspend belief) of childhood and not the cynicism of adulthood (or fandom)

GoldenJCJ

Spoilers, man!

L. Ron zyzzle

I am slowly forcing myself to re-watch this on Max to give it a "second chance".

I think if you go in with the right mindset; acknowledging it as a visually amazing too-earnest overly-long popcorn movie, with clunky politics and characters you find it difficult to relate to because they look really weird, then it's enjoyable!


(An aside: it mixes sit-com tropes with children-in-peril-of-death stuff so easily! Is it a wonder it gets mixed reactions?)

(A little bit more - I'm live-tweeting in one post.
Cameron put so much effort into crafting his hugely individual vision, while at the same time wanting to appeal to as many people as possible. It's an uneasy mix.)

L. Ron zyzzle

Has anyone asked why the whale would need bioluminescent organs inside its body yet? I don't want to re-read the whole thread.

GoldenJCJ

I think it was just an acting choice by the whale.

You or I may have taken the character in a different direction but Cameron didn’t see that “it” factor in us.

IBJoel

This actually makes an excellent point about evolution! It may not have "needed" them, but if they didn't cause a hindrance, the structures may have simply never mutated out of genes. Or they're part of an elaborate mating ritual.