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Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

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Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Old 11-16-22, 06:15 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Old 11-16-22, 11:26 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

^^That ultra-mega-bass creepy voice singing "For Namor of Atlantis is the PRINCE OF THE DEEEEEEEEP" scared the fuck outta me as a kid.

Was that Thurl Ravenscroft?
Old 11-16-22, 11:50 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Definitely a meandering kind of film - almost as if it was rewritten at the last minute to accommodate real life events. It does feel smaller, which is totally fine.. but there's still a lot of goofy looking fight scenes. (same issue I had with the first) It just doesn't nail that Civil War tone that I think these films belong in. Loved all of the Namor stuff.

Was really surprised they killed off the Queen, why limit your options going forward? You've already lost a major piece - which is what this film is about. I'm also curious to know if Iron Heart was mandated by Marvel or if Coogler was cool with it and played ball. There's a better 135 minute movie in here somewhere...
Old 11-17-22, 02:27 AM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Namor predates Aquaman by about two years.

Namor was created early in 1939 for a promotional giveaway comic called Motion Picture Funnies #1, which was, to my knowledge never published. Namor's official first appearance was in Marvel Comics #1 in October 1939, which printed an expanded version of the story from Motion Picture Funnies. This comic also featured the debut of The Human Torch (the Golden Age android version, not the Johnny Storm Human Torch from The Fantastic Four). This comic came out about a year and a half before Captain America's first appearance, making Namor and the Human Torch Marvel's first superhero characters.

Aquaman debuted in More Fun Comics #73 in November 1941.

I think that, in the Marvel continuity, Namor's kingdom wasn't identified as Atlantis until his Silver Age appearances in the early 1960s, when he re-introduced in The Fantastic Four and was trying to get in the Invisible Girl's pants.

Later, they also did a sort of retcon where Namor, Captain America, and The Human Torch were part of a team for the Axis during World War II called The Invaders.
Yeah i got the origin parts. I was talking about the Namor Atlantis thing. Didn't that come after Aquaman.
Old 11-17-22, 03:17 AM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Did a bit of digging and it appears that Atlantis was officially brought into the Aquaman mythos in 1959, a few years before Marvel did the same thing with Namor.

This is all before my time, but I wonder if DC and Marvel retconning Atlantis into the backstory of both Aquaman and Namor has anything to do with the myth of Atlantis being popularized by Edgar Cayce. Cayce died in the 1940s, but he predicted that Atlantis would rise from the ocean in the 1960s or something, and that might have been dropped into the zeitgeist around that time. Doctor Who also had Troughton Doctor story involving Atlantis in the mid-60s, so it might be something that held a lot of interest in that time period.
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Old 11-20-22, 12:07 AM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Was really disappointed in this. I am not sure what I was expecting, but I know it was more than this. This my go on that short list of MCU one-time views for me. I didn't hate it, but there wasn't anything that I see as worth watching again. The action sequences were pretty few and generic, the humor was almost non-existent, and there was no mystery that needs reviewing. In short, this movie was not fun.

I agree that this was a Namor movie. From Killmonger to Fishmonger, the villains were well-conceived in both films. I know the wings were part of the original character, but WTF? They make no sense on any level. Why the hell would an underwater being have wings ... on his ankles of all places? If you were going to say they were fins, I could live with that, but why didn't the others have them? And the pointed ears? I liked the origin story and the character, but the explanation of why he is different was lacking. I would have liked to have seen his people and his world fleshed out a little better. I understood that they were "fully oxygenated" while in water and hypoxic out of water, but the instantaneous skin color changes were distracting to me.

I loved Letitia Wright in the first Black Panther. After seeing her in Death on the Nile, I was hesitant and not sure she could carry a film. Now that I have seen Wakanda Forever, she cannot. She wasn't terrible, just flat. She did not spark any emotion in me or give me any reason to want to root for her. All of her motivation and sympathy came from the situation or the characters around her, not her.

More of Lupita in that suit, please! Or the pink dress ...

More Winston Duke, please!

Danai Gurira killed it. More of her, please!

RiRi Williams is supposed to be 19? She looked 35. I really wanted to like this character, but they didn't do enough with her to give me anything to work with.

Can we dump Julia Louis-Dreyfus already? I have no idea what the hell the point of her character is and she does nothing but take me out of every MCU thing she has been in. All I can tell is she equates to, "Yadda yadda yadda ... we are building up to something." Did Fiege turn things over to Kathleen Kennedy for awhile?
Old 11-21-22, 01:00 AM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

This is the first Marvel I wonít buy or watch again. Largely shit. Story was not interesting, and it looked cheap. I donít know if they used the ďVolumeĒ tech developed for the Mandalorian or what, but this whole movie just felt like an extended Disney+ episode. The first Black Panther had a look and feel that seemed grand and important. This just felt like a small movie in every way.

Namor was a laughable villain. Iíll assume he existed in the comics but his realization in this was just lame.

And of course it was WAY too long for how little was happening. What a mess. Iíve always liked Cooglerís films but this one was terrible. I gave it 2 stars since I did think the scene with Killmonger was good and I like Martin Freeman in this role as well.
Old 11-21-22, 04:35 AM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
I loved Letitia Wright in the first Black Panther. After seeing her in Death on the Nile, I was hesitant and not sure she could carry a film. Now that I have seen Wakanda Forever, she cannot. She wasn't terrible, just flat. She did not spark any emotion in me or give me any reason to want to root for her. All of her motivation and sympathy came from the situation or the characters around her, not her.

More of Lupita in that suit, please!
Yeah, it was an odd choice to go with Letitia as the main character when you've got Lupita right there. Would really like to know what the original script was about - I think they should've just reworked that instead of starting from scratch. One of those films where the more I think about it after watching it really has dropped for me - I think they just made the wrong creative choices in the moment.
Old 11-21-22, 09:42 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

According to a number of podcasts I listen to, Coogler contends this largely was the initial script. They reworked scenes with T'Challa but kept the mainlines and the story. One podcast quoted him as saying something about how surprised he was at how easily they could strip T'Challa out of most of it. Maybe it says something about the quality of the script when you can remove your main character and not make a large difference.
Old 11-23-22, 01:08 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

My son is home from college so he and I went to see this again (his first time, my second). I enjoyed it just as much the second time around. The overwhelming sense of loss permeates the entire film. And I liked Shuri's arc even more, as she tries to deal with both her failure to save her brother and her failure to live up to his legacy. Not to mention dealing with the death of both her brother and her mother. I loved that she wasn't a carbon copy as BP.

I said this before but it really drives home how great it was they didn't recast Boseman. The real-world tragedy and the obvious emotions from the actors about their friend really gave it gravity it wouldn't have had if they were all like "oh hey, T'Challa".

And the runtime didn't bother me at all again - I think the movie rips along at a pretty good pace.
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Old 11-24-22, 12:33 AM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
According to a number of podcasts I listen to, Coogler contends this largely was the initial script. They reworked scenes with T'Challa but kept the mainlines and the story. One podcast quoted him as saying something about how surprised he was at how easily they could strip T'Challa out of most of it. Maybe it says something about the quality of the script when you can remove your main character and not make a large difference.
That's really interesting. Honestly I think it would have been a terrible movie with Tchalla in it. I don't mean to be callous, but I think the best parts of the movie were how they dealt with his death. Without that emotional gravitas the movie would be a lot more lackluster. Maybe it would have been more fun but it seems like it would have been empty. Either way we'll never know.
Old 11-25-22, 10:36 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

I agree, tanman. I am not envisioning this script with T'Challa in it.

That said, there is another point that I forgot about (and I'm betting many others had, too) ... T'Challa was blipped. That means Wakanda had already mourned his loss once, then got him back fiver years later ... and is now going through it again. I don't think the movie did a good job conveying that, but I wonder if that grief/mourning had more to do with the original script.
Old 11-25-22, 10:49 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Oh yeah. I think there was a brief mention wasn't there? But I understand the reason they didn't want to focus on it. It probably would have distracted from T'challa and Boseman's death if they did.

And that was the moment in Endgame that I realized that the deaths would have been somewhat who why-how reversed when they dusted T'challa. I think every other character before him they could have actually killed off.
Old 11-25-22, 11:17 PM
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Re: Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022, D: Coogler) -- The Spoiler Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by tanman View Post
Oh yeah. I think there was a brief mention wasn't there? But I understand the reason they didn't want to focus on it. It probably would have distracted from T'challa and Boseman's death if they did.
Yeah, Nakia tells Suri that when T'Challa was blipped she chose to leave Wakanda because the loss was too much for her.

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