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-   -   Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/654061-alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-dp-prop-gun-director-shot-well.html)

mike7162 10-23-21 09:45 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
I had no idea real guns were still being used on movie sets. Hollywood can make a talking raccoon but they can't manufacture a convincing looking fake gun?


Sonic 10-23-21 10:10 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Legal experts weigh in Baldwin can face repercussions of negligent manslaughter charges.

TGM 10-24-21 08:58 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
as the guy handed a loaded gun by a "professional armorer" who tells him its perfectly safe and good to go I can't see how he would be responsible at all but as the producer........................

also this has more in common with Brendan Lee than Jon Erik Hexum

clckworang 10-24-21 10:13 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by mike7162 (Post 14002073)
I had no idea real guns were still being used on movie sets. Hollywood can make a talking raccoon but they can't manufacture a convincing looking fake gun?

My bet is you can make fake guns that look good to hold but aren't convincing if they need to be fired. I know the next solution people will have is CGI, but that doesn't always look good either. Plus, that's probably not going to be an option for most low-budget productions.

GoldenJCJ 10-24-21 10:14 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
I’ve read a couple articles like this and I can’t imagine how they’re anything more than speculative clickbait. Unless some really egregious info comes out about Baldwin, there’s no way he’s being charged criminally over this and these “attorneys” in the article know full well he won’t be charged with a crime.

As a producer, I can see him getting caught up in some civil lawsuits and maybe being required to pay money to the family (although I’ve heard conflicting reports that he was either producer or executive producer so I’m not sure how much power he actually had on set). Sounds like there was some shady stuff going on on set for sure though.

Based on what I’ve read, the assistant director who handed Baldwin the gun and the armorer responsible for the firearms are the ones who are screwed in this situation.

movieguru 10-24-21 11:23 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Rather ironic that there is an accidental death on the movie set where the plot of the movie revolves around an accidental death. IMDB doesn't go in depth into the plot of the movie, but the accidental death on the movie plot could have also been an accidental shooting.

majorjoe23 10-24-21 01:16 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by clckworang (Post 14002200)
My bet is you can make fake guns that look good to hold but aren't convincing if they need to be fired. I know the next solution people will have is CGI, but that doesn't always look good either. Plus, that's probably not going to be an option for most low-budget productions.

surprisingly, CGI gunfire is pretty common in low budget productions. It looks terrible, though. I was an extra on a low budget zombie movie 15 years ago and they were planning to add the gunfire in post.

There’s an example at about the 40 second mark in this trailer:


stingermck 10-24-21 06:47 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

After the shooting, Baldwin was "hysterical and absolutely inconsolable for hours," the source said. "Everyone knows this was an accident, but he's absolutely devastated.

He is "canceling other projects" and taking time off to "re-center himself," People reported, citing an unnamed source.

https://www.insider.com/alec-baldwin...mishap-2021-10

Josh-da-man 10-24-21 08:42 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
From TMZ...


The smoking gun that claimed the life of Halyna Hutchins might've been more than just an on-set prop -- it was also being fired recreationally, even when cameras weren't rolling.

Multiple sources directly connected to the 'Rust' production tell TMZ ... the same gun Alec Baldwin accidentally fired -- hitting the DP and director -- was being used by crews members off set as well, for what we're told amounted to target practice.

We're told this off-the-clock shooting -- which was allegedly happening away from the movie lot -- was being done with real bullets ... which is how some who worked on the film believe a live round found its way in one of the chambers that day.

Obviously, authorities would want to speak to anyone who had been using the weapon for target practice, and -- more importantly -- to whoever was putting the gun back among others used for filming.

We've reached out to law enforcement to see if that's happened yet.

There's also this ... one source who was on set and familiar with the goings-on of the crew tells us that when cops showed up, they found live ammo and blanks were being stored in the same area -- another possible explanation for how an actual bullet slipped got in the gun.
https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-...rget-practice/

clckworang 10-24-21 09:00 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Things still seem very vague and open to interpretation. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the TMZ article says the gun that Alec Baldwin accidentally fired. Did the gun accidentally go off and Baldwin didn't mean to pull the trigger? Or is the "accidentally fired" referring more to the people getting shot? If Alec Baldwin pulled the trigger thinking that it had blanks, then he didn't accidentally fire the gun, but if he didn't mean to pull the trigger or it was a misfire, that's something else. I'm not saying either scenario puts blame on Baldwin. I'm just trying to figure out exactly how things happened. Like I said, I might be reading too much into things.

RichC2 10-24-21 11:29 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by clckworang (Post 14002453)
Things still seem very vague and open to interpretation. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the TMZ article says the gun that Alec Baldwin accidentally fired. Did the gun accidentally go off and Baldwin didn't mean to pull the trigger? Or is the "accidentally fired" referring more to the people getting shot? If Alec Baldwin pulled the trigger thinking that it had blanks, then he didn't accidentally fire the gun, but if he didn't mean to pull the trigger or it was a misfire, that's something else. I'm not saying either scenario puts blame on Baldwin. I'm just trying to figure out exactly how things happened. Like I said, I might be reading too much into things.

The particulars in this situation are still coming out. They have no solid definition of misfire with some suggesting that means it went off without a trigger pull and some using that term for a bullet being fired from a supposed cold gun.

More detailed reports will undoubtedly follow in the coming weeks.

dex14 10-24-21 11:34 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

ALBUQUERQUE — Alec Baldwin was rehearsing a scene that involved pointing a revolver “towards the camera lens” when the gun — which the crew had been told did not contain live rounds — suddenly went off and killed the cinematographer, according to the film’s director, who was quoted in an affidavit released Sunday night.

The film’s director, Joel Souza, described hearing what “sounded like a whip and then loud pop.”

The account by Mr. Souza explained why Mr. Baldwin had been pointing the gun at the cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins. But it did not answer the question of how a gun that was not supposed to contain live ammunition wound up killing her.

The director, who was wounded in the shooting, told investigators that he had believed that the gun was safe and that it had been described as a “cold gun” in firearm safety announcements. He said that guns on the film’s set were typically checked by the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, and then checked again by Dave Halls, the assistant director, who would hand them to the actors.

On Thursday, after preparing for the scene in a set of a church, Mr. Souza said, there was a lunch break, and the crew was taken by shuttle elsewhere for food. He said that they returned to the set after lunch but that he was “not sure if the firearm was checked again.”

The new details, which emerged when the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office released the affidavit used to obtain a search warrant, provided the fullest account yet of the deadly shooting, which took place Thursday afternoon on a set outside Santa Fe.

Mr. Baldwin had been sitting in a wooden church pew, rehearsing a scene that involved “cross drawing” a revolver and pointing it at the camera lens, Mr. Souza said, according to the affidavit. Mr. Souza said that he had been standing beside Ms. Hutchins “viewing the camera angle.”

Mr. Souza saw Ms. Hutchins grabbing her midsection and starting to stumble backward. Then he noticed he was bleeding from his shoulder.

The details, woven together by Detective Joel Cano in an application for a search warrant to seize everything from camera memory cards to bone fragments and firearm discharge, provide a chilling account of that fatal shooting on a production set that had been beset by accidental gun discharges and labor disputes between producers and crew members. (The warrant was granted.)

“Upon making contact I did observe a visible injury to his right shoulder,” Detective Cano said in the affidavit, describing how he had interviewed Mr. Souza on Friday afternoon, after the director had been treated for his injury. Ms. Hutchins, who sustained a gunshot wound to the chest area, had already been pronounced dead on Thursday at University of New Mexico Hospital in Albuquerque.
“Joel stated there should never be live rounds whatsoever, near or around the scene,” Detective Cano wrote in the affidavit.

Mr. Souza was grappling with delays the day of the shooting, after about six members of the camera crew had quit over late pay and safety conditions, the affidavit said. Another crew had quickly been hired, but the production was off to a late start because of the labor problems. Mr. Souza said only one camera was available for recording before the shooting.

Asked about “the employees’ behavior,” Mr. Souza told investigators that “everyone was getting along” and that there had been “no altercations” to his knowledge.

The affidavit also includes notes from an interview with Reid Russell, a cameraman who was standing near Ms. Hutchins and Mr. Souza when the gun discharged.

Mr. Russell told the detective that after returning to the set from lunch, he had stepped outside for about five minutes; when he returned, according to the affidavit, Mr. Baldwin, Ms. Hutchins and Mr. Souza were setting up the scene and were already “in possession of the firearm.” Mr. Russell said he was not sure if the firearm had been inspected because he had been absent for those five minutes.

According to the affidavit, Mr. Halls grabbed the revolver from a gray, two-tiered tray set up by Ms. Gutierrez-Reed. Mr. Halls handed the gun to Mr. Baldwin and shouted, “cold gun,” which on a film set typically refers to an unloaded firearm.

While setting up the scene, the crew had to reposition the camera because there was a shadow. Mr. Russell told the detective that Mr. Baldwin was explaining how he was going to draw the gun, pulling it out from the holster, when the firearm discharged.

Mr. Russell said that Mr. Baldwin had been “very careful” with the firearm; during an earlier scene, Mr. Russell said, Mr. Baldwin had tried to ensure safety on set, making sure that a child wasn’t near him when he was discharging the gun. Asked about how members of the production team were behaving as they set up the scene, he said “everyone seemed to be getting along.”

Mr. Souza, the director, told the detective that because the crew had been setting up the scene when the gun discharged, the incident had not been filmed.

After the firearm was discharged, Mr. Russell told the detective he “remembered Joel having blood on his person, and Ms. Hutchins speaking and saying she couldn’t feel her legs.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/24/a...xERA3ANnNc6IbI

Cellar Door 10-24-21 11:54 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Man, that's just so awful and so preventable.

Gunde 10-25-21 02:47 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by clckworang (Post 14002200)
My bet is you can make fake guns that look good to hold but aren't convincing if they need to be fired. I know the next solution people will have is CGI, but that doesn't always look good either. Plus, that's probably not going to be an option for most low-budget productions.

Fine. But then why the fuck are there live bullets on a set? Completely nuts.
Also, is there really not a gun safety dude, who's responsible for inspecting any gun before it's handed to an actor and who also takes it back immediately as soon as the director yells 'cut'??

Coral 10-25-21 07:33 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Looks like my theory of a POV shot turned out true.

I wouldn't blame him for avoiding roles where he's handling a gun from now on... or at least for a long while.

clckworang 10-25-21 09:45 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Gunde (Post 14002529)
Fine. But then why the fuck are there live bullets on a set? Completely nuts.
Also, is there really not a gun safety dude, who's responsible for inspecting any gun before it's handed to an actor and who also takes it back immediately as soon as the director yells 'cut'??

Why the fuck are you asking me these questions? :shrug: :lol:

MLBFan24 10-25-21 10:35 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Basically I think the industry normally does an exceptional job at making sure people aren't injured / killed by the prop firearms. Unfortunately, this production crew failed to follow the procedures and protocols, and the consequences were very severe.

Shannon Nutt 10-25-21 10:42 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
It's looking more and more likely that Assistant Director Dave Halls was the main culprit in this tragedy:

Alec Baldwin shooting: Dave Halls, assistant director on 'Rust', was subject of complaints dating back to 2019 (msn.com)

GoldenJCJ 10-25-21 11:10 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt (Post 14002627)
It's looking more and more likely that Assistant Director Dave Halls was the main culprit in this tragedy:

Alec Baldwin shooting: Dave Halls, assistant director on 'Rust', was subject of complaints dating back to 2019 (msn.com)

It sounds like such a weird situation. I think the two biggest to blame are the AD and the Armorer, Hannah Gutierrez. Obviously, it’s looking like Halls has disregarded safety protocols in the past and it looks like he disregarded safety protocols the day of the accident. I’m not even sure Gutierrez was present when the cinematographer was shot (although, she sure-as-shit should have been). Sounds like Halls was the one who called for a “cold gun” before handing it to Baldwin (sounds like protocol was supposed to be the Gutierrez inspects the gun first, then hands it to Halls to inspect it again before handing it to an actor).

Additinally, it sounds like the guns, and THAT gun in particular, were used for target shooting for fun. Just prior to the shooting, the cast and crew were bussed off site for lunch. I’m wondering if some stayed behind to shoot the guns for fun and then placed it back on the cart with a live round left in it.

andicus 10-25-21 11:22 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14002640)
It sounds like such a weird situation. I think the two biggest to blame are the AD and the Armorer, Hannah Gutierrez. Obviously, it’s looking like Halls has disregarded safety protocols in the past and it looks like he disregarded safety protocols the day of the accident. I’m not even sure Gutierrez was present when the cinematographer was shot (although, she sure-as-shit should have been). Sounds like Halls was the one who called for a “cold gun” before handing it to Baldwin (sounds like protocol was supposed to be the Gutierrez inspects the gun first, then hands it to Halls to inspect it again before handing it to an actor).

Additinally, it sounds like the guns, and THAT gun in particular, were used for target shooting for fun. Just prior to the shooting, the cast and crew were bussed off site for lunch. I’m wondering if some stayed behind to shoot the guns for fun and then placed it back on the cart with a live round left in it.

This certainly sounds like a good possibility. Another account I read said something about the AD taking the gun from the cart and declaring it cold. No mention of the armorer.

Also of concern is that there were apparently two prior incidents, on this set, of accidental weapon discharges. From CNN:

Three crew members who were on the set last weekend told the Los Angeles Times there were two accidental prop gun discharges before Thursday's fatal shooting. On Oct. 16, Baldwin's stunt double unintentionally fired rounds after he was told the gun was "cold," two of the crew members, who witnessed the discharges, told the newspaper.

AaronHernandez 10-25-21 11:34 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14002640)
It sounds like such a weird situation. I think the two biggest to blame are the AD and the Armorer, Hannah Gutierrez. Obviously, it’s looking like Halls has disregarded safety protocols in the past and it looks like he disregarded safety protocols the day of the accident. I’m not even sure Gutierrez was present when the cinematographer was shot (although, she sure-as-shit should have been). Sounds like Halls was the one who called for a “cold gun” before handing it to Baldwin (sounds like protocol was supposed to be the Gutierrez inspects the gun first, then hands it to Halls to inspect it again before handing it to an actor).

Additinally, it sounds like the guns, and THAT gun in particular, were used for target shooting for fun. Just prior to the shooting, the cast and crew were bussed off site for lunch. I’m wondering if some stayed behind to shoot the guns for fun and then placed it back on the cart with a live round left in it.

It seemed like the armourer had no training because Production didn't want to pay an experienced professional. Prooducers share in the blame as well. All in all this film was a trainwreck due to the combo of overworked and inexperienced/incompetent crew because Production were cutting corners to save on cost.

devilshalo 10-25-21 11:46 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by clckworang (Post 14002200)
My bet is you can make fake guns that look good to hold but aren't convincing if they need to be fired. I know the next solution people will have is CGI, but that doesn't always look good either. Plus, that's probably not going to be an option for most low-budget productions.

There are a ton of realistic airsoft guns that can be used, the only difference is that it won't eject a shell for weapons with a slide cartridge, but it will simulate blowback recoil. I have a number of them and used them in my old college student films.

clckworang 10-25-21 02:41 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by devilshalo (Post 14002662)
There are a ton of realistic airsoft guns that can be used, the only difference is that it won't eject a shell for weapons with a slide cartridge, but it will simulate blowback recoil. I have a number of them and used them in my old college student films.

Does that mean that they would have to add the flash in post?

Dan 10-25-21 02:47 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
One of the countless threads I've read about guns on camera is that, many times, more often than you'd think, muzzle flash is missed by the 24fps recording (or gets caught in a partial way where it looks dumb), so they have to add the flash in post anyway. And there are countless options available to add it in there with whatever else you may need since you're talking about something that appears on screen for a few frames at best. Sure, when it looks bad, it looks really bad, but that doesn't mean it can't look good and sufficient for the show.

TomOpus 10-25-21 03:13 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by AaronHernandez (Post 14002654)
It seemed like the armourer had no training because Production didn't want to pay an experienced professional. Prooducers share in the blame as well. All in all this film was a trainwreck due to the combo of overworked and inexperienced/incompetent crew because Production were cutting corners to save on cost.

Saw a news reporter say it was the armourer's 2nd or 3rd movie.

GoldenJCJ 10-26-21 06:07 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
This incident has made me appreciate action movies with a ton of gunfights. Everything from big budget Michael Bay and John Woo type movies to the low budget crap you see on Amazon Prime with generic titles like Seal Team: Strike Force and Shadow Soldiers.

Those movies have huge gunfights with dozens of guns all shooting at the same time with the cameraman dipping in and out of the action. By comparison, Baldwin was practicing drawing the gun from his holster with it seemingly being the only gun on set at the time.

stingermck 10-26-21 11:00 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Along the same lines, a movie that is all guns. The John Wick director uses a lot of safety protocols because of his work on the Crow
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/247...-the-franchise

devilshalo 10-28-21 02:22 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by clckworang (Post 14002726)
Does that mean that they would have to add the flash in post?

Yes, pretty much most muzzle flash is added in post.


Jack Straw 10-30-21 08:03 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Just watched the brief Q/A with the media in VT. Wow, that wife of his is a real viper coming down on the media for doing their job. Was surprised she inserted herself so much into the questions addressed to Alec, not her. A true mother. I understand why she's upset, but the attention and bright spotlight is who she married and what she signed up for. I'm sure she's totally fine with the income his celebrity brings in. Just as I expected, that movie will never get finished, nor should it imo. Alec looks like he could use a few weeks of sleep. Serious suitcases under those bulbs.

Artman 10-30-21 08:29 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
I actually thought they handled it fine (despite some obvious tension between them), but I'm sure his agents and lawyers wished he didn't do that. Would be pretty wild to be one of the cars passing by...."that guy looked like Alec Baldwin...."

RichC2 10-30-21 08:57 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Jack Straw (Post 14005170)
Just watched the brief Q/A with the media in VT. Wow, that wife of his is a real viper coming down on the media for doing their job. Was surprised she inserted herself so much into the questions addressed to Alec, not her. A true mother. I understand why she's upset, but the attention and bright spotlight is who she married and what she signed up for. I'm sure she's totally fine with the income his celebrity brings in. Just as I expected, that movie will never get finished, nor should it imo. Alec looks like he could use a few weeks of sleep. Serious suitcases under those bulbs.

They were paparazzi, it probably took a lot of restraint from being more snippy.

Jack Straw 10-30-21 09:16 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
He voluntarily held this impromptu press conference to respond to the media's questions to hopefully give them answers they wanted so they would hopefully leave them alone. No one was asking her anything. She should have allowed him to speak and kept her mouth shut, which from his remark to her was what he also wanted.

Sonic 11-11-21 11:23 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Alec Baldwin wasn't supposed to pull the trigger in 'Rust' scene that led to fatal shooting, lawsuit claim


The suit added, "The scene did not call for Defendant Baldwin to shoot the Colt Revolver, which should not have contained any live ammunition."

General Zod 11-12-21 01:10 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
So now that we all know how dangerous these prop guns are I can't enjoy watching movies with gun scenes. Therefore I am filing a lawsuit against Alec Baldwin. If he hadn't pulled the trigger I wouldn't be in this situation.

Count Dooku 11-12-21 10:15 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Bullshit money-grab lawsuit. "I was there, so I deserve a payday." Fuck you, Serge.

Runaway 11-12-21 10:45 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14010993)
Bullshit money-grab lawsuit. "I was there, so I deserve a payday." Fuck you, Serge.

I would understand the family of the victim, although it was an accident, but a witness claiming damages is shameless.

d2cheer 11-12-21 10:59 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
IF true that he wasn't supposed to fire it that changes some things...but the lawsuit fuck that.





Runaway 11-12-21 11:33 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by d2cheer (Post 14011023)
IF true that he wasn't supposed to fire it that changes some things...but the lawsuit fuck that.

Does is though? The gun should not have been loaded with real bullets, wether or not Baldwin was supposed to fire it. It's still a gun, guns go of my accident. It makes the story more tragic, but not less accidental.

d2cheer 11-12-21 11:44 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Yes it is negligence on his part.


Still tragic I agree.

jjcool 11-12-21 12:23 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Runaway (Post 14011052)
guns go of my accident.

This one didn't. Pulling the trigger is not an accident.

And does anyone know what gun was involved? The article mentioned it was a ".45 long Colt revolver". Could mean several different things.


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