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-   -   Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/654061-alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-dp-prop-gun-director-shot-well.html)

B5Erik 10-22-21 01:33 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Gizmo (Post 14001318)
It was clearly an accident that could have been fired by anyone on set. I canít imagine Alec taking any blame for this.

Definitely not, but that won't make him feel any better. This is going to weigh on him for the rest of his life. I can't imagine living with that.

dex14 10-22-21 06:25 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Hazel Motes (Post 14001303)
As a producer on the film and the person who discharged the weapon I wonder what kind of career heíll have after this.

He isn't the prop manager / weapons master... who is pretty much the person responsible for this.

Baldwin has like 27 kids. He'll probably take some time off, but he's still going to work.

Coral 10-22-21 07:21 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
This has happened a few times before, so I'm really baffled as to why prop guns which still have a risk of injury/death is still being used.

Surely in this day and age someone should be able to make a prop gun that's 100% safe with zero risk of injury, and yet do whatever they expect a prop gun to do?
Sounds like an opportunity for a manufacturer to make some money - as I have to believe that this accident will finally demand legal changes to how prop guns are made/used.

RichC2 10-22-21 08:09 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
The director is out of the hospital

Dan 10-22-21 08:18 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Coral (Post 14001345)
This has happened a few times before, so I'm really baffled as to why prop guns which still have a risk of injury/death is still being used.

Surely in this day and age someone should be able to make a prop gun that's 100% safe with zero risk of injury, and yet do whatever they expect a prop gun to do?
Sounds like an opportunity for a manufacturer to make some money - as I have to believe that this accident will finally demand legal changes to how prop guns are made/used.

I imagine part of the problem is variety in addition to producers/actors/directors/whoever wanting specific guns in their films.

But I agree, this stuff really shouldn't happen anymore.

Such a tragedy. RIP.

GoldenJCJ 10-22-21 09:03 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
If I remember correctly, there were a couple of unfortunate events that happened with the gun on The Crow. They first used a real bullet with no gunpowder for a close-up/direct angle shot of the gun to make it look loaded, they pulled the trigger for the shot which, because there was no gunpowder, didnít fire the bullet but did dislodge it enough to become lodged in the barrel. Then they replaced the bullets with blanks (which fire gunpowder but have a cardboard cap instead of a bullet). When they fired the blank, it dislodged the bullet stick in the barrel and essentially made a live round which killed Brandon Lee.

I wonder if the same situation happened here or if someone accidentally loaded a real bullet - which I canít imagine were even on set.


Iím with the poster above who thinks in this day and age production companies should be using prior guns that canít fire at all. Youíd think someone would get with firearms manufacturers (Smith & Wesson, Glock, etc.) and create a fake movie gun.

Josh-da-man 10-22-21 09:17 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Sonic (Post 14001302)
And Thanksgiving is around the corner. Such a shame they did not take extra precautions. Even fake guns are dangerous.


Originally Posted by B5Erik (Post 14001309)
There's nothing fake about the guns (usually). They're just loaded with blanks. And, yeah, blanks can be dangerous, too.

All of the articles refer to it as a "prop gun," but a prop gun is just going to be realistic looking toy that wouldn't be able to fire anything. It's sort of confusing.

I would assume that it was a real gun involved that either somehow got loaded with live rounds or a blank somehow discharged shrapnel.



ytrez 10-22-21 09:20 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Why do prop guns fire at all in this day and age? Surely CGI can be added in post for smoke and muzzle flash. And don't give me "realism" bullshit. Have the actor fire a real gun on a range to get a feel for how the gun reacts then let him/her ACT on set.

Actors are going to be reluctant about pointing a prop gun on a set with shit like this continuing to happen and I don't blame them.

Sonic 10-22-21 09:24 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Movie title will change from "Rust" to Rest.

dex14 10-22-21 09:38 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

The prop gun that killed “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on during an on-set accident on Thursday contained a “live single round,” according to an email sent by IATSE Local 44 to its membership.

Additionally, the union says that New Mexico crew members staffed the props, set decoration, special effects and construction departments on “Rust,” not its members.

“A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza,” the union told members.
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/a...nd-1235095349/

Dan 10-22-21 09:41 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
I'm confused by the above. How does the IATSE know it was a live round if they say that their members were not involved in the props, set dec., sfx, etc. departments?

edit: but to be clear, if that's the case.. holy shit that's fucking terrible. Zero reason for genuine live rounds on set.

Troy Stiffler 10-22-21 09:42 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by ytrez (Post 14001390)
Why do prop guns fire at all in this day and age? Surely CGI can be added in post for smoke and muzzle flash. And don't give me "realism" bullshit. Have the actor fire a real gun on a range to get a feel for how the gun reacts then let him/her ACT on set.

Go to YouTube and see what that looks like.

MLBFan24 10-22-21 10:09 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
The discussion about prop guns reminds me of Kiefer Sutherland and how after all these years (mostly working on 24), he has significant hearing loss due to blanks used in prop guns.

I've never used a prop gun, but have used real firearms, so I'm not sure how well they compare on the decibel range.

General Zod 10-22-21 10:10 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Sonic (Post 14001392)
Movie title will change from "Rust" to Rest.

This movie is done. I don't see how they'll continue work on it - especially with a low budget. The production company needs to save every penny for the impending lawsuits.

Guns on set that have live rounds are usually referred to as a "hot gun" and they are used, typically, so that actors can get a feel for what firing a real gun of that type is like so when they use the prop gun they can more closely emulate the kickback and whatnot. But they are fired away from the set and never placed anywhere near the prop guns (and properly locked up when not in use with the weapon master overseeing it at all times). Sounds like in the low budget work a mistake was made somewhere.

E Unit 10-22-21 10:17 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Yeah, he’s going to be messed up for quite a while.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...16f91bd8d.jpeg

Hokeyboy 10-22-21 10:42 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
I can't imagine having to go through living with this for the rest of your life, but it was certainly definitely not Baldwin's fault. Anyone could have been the one who pulled that trigger. It was a tragic accident.

The prop master and/or armorer, they got a world of shit ahead of them.

dex14 10-22-21 10:56 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

TomOpus 10-22-21 11:00 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Wouldn't blame him if he took several years off. Even though he was not to blame, he was the one who pulled the trigger and that has to weigh heavily.

stingermck 10-22-21 11:21 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by TomOpus (Post 14001449)
Wouldn't blame him if he took several years off. Even though he was not to blame, he was the one who pulled the trigger and that has to weigh heavily.

Michael Massee had a very tough time after the accident on The Crow.


DJLinus 10-22-21 11:28 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by General Zod (Post 14001422)
Guns on set that have live rounds are usually referred to as a "hot gun" and they are used, typically, so that actors can get a feel for what firing a real gun of that type is like so when they use the prop gun they can more closely emulate the kickback and whatnot. But they are fired away from the set and never placed anywhere near the prop guns (and properly locked up when not in use with the weapon master overseeing it at all times). Sounds like in the low budget work a mistake was made somewhere.

Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering why the hell there is live ammunition on a movie set.

Alec Baldwin seems like an asshole (though I enjoy his work), but this is terrible and I wouldn't wish it on anybody. It'll eat at him for a long time, I'm sure. When I first heard the news, I just assumed he shot another actor like in The Crow. But then I heard it was the cinematographer and that irked me. My assumption was that he was monkeying around with the gun on the set. Even if it's a prop loaded with blanks, you still follow the rules and treat it with respect as a deadly weapon. But I didn't consider it being a POV scene. If so, that would make sense and take the responsibility off him. (Though still, I wonder why movie crews would be in the line of fire in such scenes since blanks are still dangerous. That's standard practice? You'd think you could step aside and review your coverage immediately on video.)

MLBFan24 10-22-21 11:49 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Regarding a possible "point of view" camera angle shot, Jon Cassar (TV director) shares his thoughts on Twitter:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...7fd9cd5bfa.jpg

dex14 10-22-21 12:48 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Saw these posted in some filmmakers’ comment feeds.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...7329efdc6.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...0de1330c2.jpeg

Why So Blu? 10-22-21 12:52 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
They'll obviously interview the director and since he was also injured, may shed some more light on it.

rexinnih 10-22-21 01:17 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
Seems like there is a lot more to the story on this and details will come out eventually. That said, not a huge fan of Alec Baldwin but truly sympathize with him on this accident.

Dan 10-22-21 01:25 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Dan (Post 14001405)
I'm confused by the above. How does the IATSE know it was a live round if they say that their members were not involved in the props, set dec., sfx, etc. departments?

edit: but to be clear, if that's the case.. holy shit that's fucking terrible. Zero reason for genuine live rounds on set.

hm.

IATSE Says Alec Baldwin ‘Rust’ Prop Gun Had Live Round; Cops Say “Hasn’t Been Determined”
https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-ba...ns-1234860697/

Law enforcement officials said Friday that they do not know right now whether the prop gun Alec Baldwin fatally fired on a New Mexico film set Thursday contained a “live single round,” despite claims from a Los Angeles IATSE Local.

“We haven’t even begun the forensics on that issue,” Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Juan Rios told Deadline this morning. “That hasn’t been determined by us as of yet,” he added. “We expect to have more information next week as our investigation continues.”

...

According to sources close to events, the union local believes there was a “live single round” in the prop gun because of the amount of damage the blast caused to Hutchins and to Souza, who supposedly was standing behind the DP when the shot struck her.
While there were no Local 44 members employed on the set of Rust, it is still to be determined whether members of New Mexico Local 480, which covers “experienced film workers in 99 crafts within 20 departments,” according to their website, were working on the low-budget Western.

maybe less bs speculation is in order.


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