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-   -   Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/654061-alec-baldwin-accidentally-kills-dp-prop-gun-director-shot-well.html)

Count Dooku 03-11-22 07:02 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by d2cheer (Post 14073005)
:lol: sure. Quality is always the final check regardless of who has done the work.

I'm not certain if you are being serious or not, but quality checks do not check every piece of work being done; it's checking a random sampling of the product.

B5Erik 03-11-22 08:09 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by jjcool (Post 14072897)
And if Baldwin, who was holding the gun, had bothered to do even the simplest of safety checks, Halyna Hutchins would still be alive. Plenty of blame to go around on this one.

He is not a gun expert. He SHOULD NEVER do gun safety checks of his own. He isn't qualified to do that!

GoldenJCJ 03-11-22 08:25 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by B5Erik (Post 14073067)
He is not a gun expert. He SHOULD NEVER do gun safety checks of his own. He isn't qualified to do that!

Heís not but maybe that should be a new requirement: That the armorer does a safety check in front of the actor before handing him/her the gun.

I think I stated it above but I also think actors should go through, at the very minimum, a beginnerís firearms course. It could include not only firearms basics but could also cover Hollywood firearms basics (what a blank looks like, the difference between a working firing pin and a spent bullet shell, how to tell a dummy bullet from a real bullet, etc).

That would also solve the problem of a movie pet peeve of mine where supposedly well trained characters donít even have simple finger discipline on the gun.

Count Dooku 03-11-22 08:39 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073072)
Heís not but maybe that should be a new requirement: That the armorer does a safety check in front of the actor before handing him/her the gun.

I think I stated it above but I also think actors should go through, at the very minimum, a beginnerís firearms course. It could include not only firearms basics but could also cover Hollywood firearms basics (what a blank looks like, the difference between a working firing pin and a spent bullet shell, how to tell a dummy bullet from a real bullet, etc).

That would also solve the problem of a movie pet peeve of mine where supposedly well trained characters donít even have simple finger discipline on the gun.

So Spielberg is filming the Allied troops landing at Normandy with dozens of actors running around in the shots carrying and "firing" weapons, and each one of them was going to take a basic firearms class, and each one of them was going to do an individual weapons check with the armorer?

And if there's a break in the shooting, and the actors put their weapons down, do they all have to have an individual weapons check again when Spielberg is ready to resume?

I know this is a serious subject, and it's terrible that this woman died, but . . . y'know . . . bear patrol.

GoldenJCJ 03-11-22 09:03 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14073081)
So Spielberg is filming the Allied troops landing at Normandy with dozens of actors running around in the shots carrying and "firing" weapons, and each one of them was going to take a basic firearms class, and each one of them was going to do an individual weapons check with the armorer?

And if there's a break in the shooting, and the actors put their weapons down, do they all have to have an individual weapons check again when Spielberg is ready to resume?

I know this is a serious subject, and it's terrible that this woman died, but . . . y'know . . . bear patrol.

I think rules can be created around those scenarios. How many of those actors/extras were actually firing blanks and how many were running around with rubber guns?

I would propose a rule that there should be X number of armorers per X number of guns on set.

And yeah, if youíre an actor who handles an actual gun on set, you go through training. Iím not suggesting a one-on-one firearms course like we saw Keanu go through for John Wick but itís not unreasonable to fill a classroom or two with actors before production begins. If Spielberg can put his actors through ďBasic TrainingĒ he can have actors sit for an afternoon to learn how to not kill each other during filming.

And letís face it, if your character is an elite Navy SEAL or the worlds most dangerous assassin, you should probably know how to hold a gun without looking like an actor who has never even touched one.

Itís also not an unreasonable rule to not leave your weapon unattended or set it down somewhere. If they take a break, they totally need to go through weapons checks again.

I honestly donít know what many of the rules for weapons on set there are currently in place but I wouldnít be surprised if a lot of those rules were already in place.

andicus 03-11-22 09:05 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by John Galt (Post 14072952)
But is it a reasonable expectation for every actor who ever handles a firearm in the filming of a movie to be proficient in handling firearms, or is the best practice to have an expert on set to handle the oversight? I'm definitely conflicted on this question and can see the arguments for both sides.

Probably not, but I'm only stating what I would do. I simply wouldn't feel comfortable, without checking, or at a minimum, being shown.

GoldenJCJ 03-11-22 09:09 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
And thereís a difference between being ďproficient with handling firearmsĒ and keeping your fucking finger off the trigger.

Count Dooku 03-11-22 09:45 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073099)
And thereís a difference between being ďproficient with handling firearmsĒ and keeping your fucking finger off the trigger.

If you are holding an unloaded gun, what's the problem with pulling the trigger?

GoldenJCJ 03-11-22 09:54 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14073107)
If you are holding an unloaded gun, what's the problem with pulling the trigger?

Good question. Letís ask Alec and Halyna.

Count Dooku 03-11-22 09:59 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073095)
I think rules can be created around those scenarios. How many of those actors/extras were actually firing blanks and how many were running around with rubber guns?

So you are proposing creating a bunch of new rules AND creating a bunch of exceptions and get-arounds to those rules? Do you work for the IRS?


And yeah, if youíre an actor who handles an actual gun on set, you go through training. Iím not suggesting a one-on-one firearms course like we saw Keanu go through for John Wick but itís not unreasonable to fill a classroom or two with actors before production begins. If Spielberg can put his actors through ďBasic TrainingĒ he can have actors sit for an afternoon to learn how to not kill each other during filming.
Again, bear patrol. Excessive regulation and wasting money.

Since nobody got shot on the set of Saving Private Ryan or John Wick or Desperado or Tombstone or Hard Boiled or . . . you get the point, not giving your actors guns with ammunition seems to be a pretty fucking effective deterrent to people shooting each other on set.


Itís also not an unreasonable rule to not leave your weapon unattended or set it down somewhere. If they take a break, they totally need to go through weapons checks again.
Cuz nobody on a movie set is ever concerned about wasting time.

Count Dooku 03-11-22 10:00 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073111)
Good question. Letís ask Alec and Halyna.

He shot her with an empty gun!?!?!?

GoldenJCJ 03-11-22 10:11 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14073113)
So you are proposing creating a bunch of new rules AND creating a bunch of exceptions and get-arounds to those rules? Do you work for the IRS?

:lol: I used a poor choice of words. I didnít mean create rules to get around the safety procedures, I meant create rules to cover those instances of a lot of guns on set.


Again, bear patrol. Excessive regulation and wasting money.
Meh, Hollywood can afford it. Iím not crying for the plight of movie producers.


Since nobody got shot on the set of Saving Private Ryan or John Wick or Desperado or Tombstone or Hard Boiled or . . . you get the point, not giving your actors guns with ammunition seems to be a pretty fucking effective deterrent to people shooting each other on set.
Agreed. Most sets seems to be pretty safe. A few extra precautions wouldnít hurt though.


Cuz nobody on a movie set is ever concerned about wasting time.
I guess that depends on what your definition of ďwasting timeĒ is.


Iím just a dude on the internet Monday Morning Quarterbacking the situation. Either nothing is done and we go another 20 or 25 years before someone else gets shot on set or Hollywood adjusts some of their rules around gun safety. Either way, itís doesnít affect me.

Count Dooku 03-11-22 10:16 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073117)
I guess that depends on what your definition of ďwasting timeĒ is.


Iím just a dude on the internet Monday Morning Quarterbacking the situation. Either nothing is done and we go another 20 or 25 years before someone else gets shot on set or Hollywood adjusts some of their rules around gun safety. Either way, itís doesnít affect me.

My definition of wasting time is enacting measures to limit the possibility of something occurring when right now it is happening once every 20-25 years.

GoldenJCJ 03-11-22 10:17 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14073114)
He shot her with an empty gun!?!?!?

Apparently it was. According to everyone on set it was emptyÖright up until she was shot.

GoldenJCJ 03-11-22 10:35 PM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14073118)
My definition of wasting time is enacting measures to limit the possibility of something occurring when right now it is happening once every 20-25 years.

Thatís a fair point. Meanwhile Iím still taking my shoes off at the airport because of one dipshit 20 years ago.

Runaway 03-12-22 12:26 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073127)
That’s a fair point. Meanwhile I’m still taking my shoes off at the airport because of one dipshit 20 years ago.

In 2015 a flight from Barcelona to Dusseldorf crashed into the French Alpes, because the suicidal co-pilot wanted to kill himself and took 149 people with him. After 9/11 the cockpit door could not be opened from the outside, which seems reasonable, but the pilot could not re-enter. So should there be a new regulation for suicidal pilots? It could be mandatory to have two people in the cockpit at all times, so when one of the pilots leaves the cockpit, a flight attendant has to enter. But if one person inside the cockpit overpowers the other? Should there be a third person...

Checking a gun is not the same as taking of shoes. If an expert tells me, it's safe to handle the gun, I have to trust him, otherwise his job is pointless. In this case Alec Baldwin wasn't handed the gun by an expert, that's something that shouldn't happen.

mwynn 03-12-22 06:59 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
It is all checks and balances, safety should be the primary concern. No one should die while making a movie. Over the years it has happened way to much, as well as people being maimed.

GoldenJCJ 03-12-22 09:13 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
I was being facetious with my shoe bomber comment. My point is that sometimes even well regulated situations have had a tweak here and there to ensure things donít go wrong again.

Maybe my suggestions go too far since these on set shooting incidents donít happen very often. Obviously though, something went very wrong on the set of Rust and it wouldnít be unreasonable to assume that some changes be made to prevent this from happening again.

Like I said previously, I donít know all the current rules for firearms safety on movie sets. Maybe a lot of the rules I suggested are already in place and the crew on Rust just ignored them. In which case, going back to why this thread was bumped, it probably warrants some civil litigation.

mwynn 03-12-22 09:39 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073203)
I was being facetious with my shoe bomber comment. My point is that sometimes even well regulated situations have had a tweak here and there to ensure things donít go wrong again.

Maybe my suggestions go too far since these on set shooting incidents donít happen very often. Obviously though, something went very wrong on the set of Rust and it wouldnít be unreasonable to assume that some changes be made to prevent this from happening again.

Like I said previously, I donít know all the current rules for firearms safety on movie sets. Maybe a lot of the rules I suggested are already in place and the crew on Rust just ignored them. In which case, going back to why this thread was bumped, it probably warrants some civil litigation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainmen...sets-1.6221637
https://ew.com/movies/rust-latest-lo...hs-movie-sets/

Count Dooku 03-12-22 09:48 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073120)
Apparently it was. According to everyone on set it was emptyÖright up until she was shot.

I don't understand that answer. If the gun was empty, what object was propelled into her body?

d2cheer 03-12-22 10:08 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14073045)
I'm not certain if you are being serious or not, but quality checks do not check every piece of work being done; it's checking a random sampling of the product.

Oh please school me on something I have done for 30 years. In my industry (Medical Device) everything is checked peoples lives depend on it. One bad device and someone can and will die. There is zero room for error on anything. But keep talking out of your ass.










Count Dooku 03-12-22 10:30 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by d2cheer (Post 14073222)
Oh please school me on something I have done for 30 years. In my industry (Medical Device) everything is checked peoples lives depend on it. One bad device and someone can and will die. There is zero room for error on anything. But keep talking out of your ass.

I worked one summer on a printing press, printing runs of tens and hundreds of thousands of magazines. Every so often, one of the senior guys would grab a finished magazine off the line, take it to a table and look it over with a magnifying glass. That was a quality check. He didn't examine every magazine.

If I buy a jar of peanut butter, I'm assuming somebody has checked the quality of the product at some point, but I'm also confident nobody stuck their finger in the jar I purchased.

So, checking quality means something different in your industry, but what a quality check is where you work does not mean that is the definition of a quality check.

Alec Baldwin has been acting for 40 years, made a hundred movies, and brandished a gun dozens and dozens of times. There has never been an incident before. Why would he think he needed to do a "quality check" on the gun this time?

d2cheer 03-12-22 10:32 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 
And yet if done here like it should have been someone would not be dead.



GoldenJCJ 03-12-22 10:39 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14073216)
I don't understand that answer. If the gun was empty, what object was propelled into her body?

One of the five rules of gun safety is:
- Treat all firearms as if they were loaded.


You never assume a gun is empty. My answer was referring to the fact that everyone THOUGHT the gun was empty. If someone would have asked Baldwin if the gun was empty just prior to him shooting Hutchins he would have said, yes it was. So to him (and apparently everyone on set) the gun WAS empty. Until he pulled the trigger (or thumbed the hammer) and realized it wasnít.

Count Dooku 03-12-22 10:42 AM

Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 14073127)
Thatís a fair point. Meanwhile Iím still taking my shoes off at the airport because of one dipshit 20 years ago.

If you start a thread to proclaim the pointless idiocy of a lot of govt bureaucracy, I'll be there to agree with you.


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