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Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

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Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Old 03-10-22, 08:38 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by jjcool
Yeah. This keeps coming back to Baldwin pointing a gun at a human being and pulling the trigger/dropping the hammer. The fact that he said the quoted text tells us that he is at least aware of the bare minimum with regards to gun safety, he just chose to not even do that in this instance, and someone died.
And if the person who was ultimately responsible for the gun did their job, what Alec did would have been about as dangerous as pointing a banana at someone.
Old 03-10-22, 09:03 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by ddrknghtrtns
he is pointing the guns towards the camera with fingers on both triggers.
Actually, no, he's not. He's pointing it about 3 feet away from the camera. That's not even close to pointing it straight at the camera.
Old 03-10-22, 10:40 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well



This is what an actor pointing a gun at the camera looks like
Old 03-11-22, 06:57 AM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by jjcool
Yeah. This keeps coming back to Baldwin pointing a gun at a human being and pulling the trigger/dropping the hammer. The fact that he said the quoted text tells us that he is at least aware of the bare minimum with regards to gun safety, he just chose to not even do that in this instance, and someone died.
The standard tenets of gun safety don't apply in this field. Part of the job involves pointing guns at another individual, which is why these productions depend on having an expert on site.
Old 03-11-22, 09:01 AM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by John Galt
The standard tenets of gun safety don't apply in this field. Part of the job involves pointing guns at another individual, which is why these productions depend on having an expert on site.
That kind of thinking isn't helpful when someone's goal is to paint Baldwin as a liar by parsing his public comments.
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Old 03-11-22, 10:01 AM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
That kind of thinking isn't helpful when someone's goal is to paint Baldwin as a liar by parsing his public comments.
I just don't like the guy, because he is a self absorbed jerk who values money over human life. He should known he would have to settled with the victims family. Whether he likes it, or ever admits to it, he bears some of the responsibility for this incident.

Last edited by ddrknghtrtns; 03-11-22 at 10:13 AM.
Old 03-11-22, 10:47 AM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by ddrknghtrtns
I just don't like the guy, because he is a self absorbed jerk who values money over human life. He should known he would have to settled with the victims family. Whether he likes it, or ever admits to it, he bears some of the responsibility for this incident.
He should have known that he would have to settle with the victim's family because he is rich? Even though, at least in his mind, it was completely an accident.

Are you saying he is responsible because he was the one with the gun? Or because he is one of the producers?

As has been chewed over for months, if an actor on set is told the gun is "cold" then they bear no responsibility for the gun actually being "hot."

As far as being a producer, that is why the film is produced by a company with insurance. I'm certain he is not the sole producer of this film, so are all the other producers expected to start ponying up settlements? Or are they just going after Baldwin because he has deep pockets?

And what has Alec Baldwin ever done in his life to exhibit that he values money over human life?
Old 03-11-22, 10:53 AM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

No one sued Michael Massee (afaik) after he killed Brandon Lee and I'm pretty sure there was no doubt that he actually pulled the trigger.
Old 03-11-22, 10:56 AM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

I still don't understand how and why he'd be personally responsible. The production company would be the one who would/should foot the bill. Coming at home personally should get nowhere.

It's not like he was out on the street and this happened to a random stranger. Everyone there should be under the workplace umbrella and this should be categorized as a workplace accident. And there are things in place to make sure workplaces accident victims get fair compensation.
Old 03-11-22, 11:00 AM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Twilight Zone
Warner Brothers settled the civil lawsuit with Vic Morrow's children. John Landis and the helicopter pilot were named in the suit, but WB wrote the check.
Old 03-11-22, 01:30 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by JayTL
I still don't understand how and why he'd be personally responsible. The production company would be the one who would/should foot the bill. Coming at home personally should get nowhere.

It's not like he was out on the street and this happened to a random stranger. Everyone there should be under the workplace umbrella and this should be categorized as a workplace accident. And there are things in place to make sure workplaces accident victims get fair compensation.
Baldwin has a right to file a motion (which I'm sure he'll do) to claim that he is not a responsible party and should not be part of the lawsuit. The court will decide if he is or isn't.
Old 03-11-22, 02:15 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by Hazel Motes
And if the person who was ultimately responsible for the gun did their job, what Alec did would have been about as dangerous as pointing a banana at someone.
And if Baldwin, who was holding the gun, had bothered to do even the simplest of safety checks, Halyna Hutchins would still be alive. Plenty of blame to go around on this one.
Old 03-11-22, 02:22 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
As has been chewed over for months, if an actor on set is told the gun is "cold" then they bear no responsibility for the gun actually being "hot."
It's thinking like that, that allowed this tragedy to occur. One would think, especially given the politics of many in Hollywood, that they would insist on having more safeguards in place, not less, with regards to firearms. Yet, because someone is "told" that a gun is cold that's enough to absolve someone of killing another. Why not go the extra step and make sure that the gun is safe yourself?
Old 03-11-22, 02:26 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by jjcool
It's thinking like that, that allowed this tragedy to occur. One would think, especially given the politics of many in Hollywood, that they would insist on having more safeguards in place, not less, with regards to firearms. Yet, because someone is "told" that a gun is cold that's enough to absolve someone of killing another. Why not go the extra step and make sure that the gun is safe yourself?
This is what I suggested I would do, but I believe someone stated that they are not allowed to do so, once the gun has been inspected by the armorer. I guess the rationale is that you could intentionally load it, after they've stated it was cold.

My view on that is that I would require them to demonstrate, to me, that it is in fact cold, when the weapon was handed to me.

Of course, hindsight, etc...
Old 03-11-22, 02:28 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by andicus
This is what I suggested I would do, but I believe someone stated that they are not allowed to do so, once the gun has been inspected by the armorer. I guess the rationale is that you could intentionally load it, after they've stated it was cold.

My view on that is that I would require them to demonstrate, to me, that it is in fact cold, when the weapon was handed to me.

Of course, hindsight, etc...
Yeah. Seems pretty common sense to me, and something I would insist upon if I were ever in that position, but this is Hollywood we are talking about.
Old 03-11-22, 02:43 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by Noonan
No one sued Michael Massee (afaik) after he killed Brandon Lee and I'm pretty sure there was no doubt that he actually pulled the trigger.
That was a different time, where there was no Social Media to weaponize.
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Old 03-11-22, 03:41 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by andicus
This is what I suggested I would do, but I believe someone stated that they are not allowed to do so, once the gun has been inspected by the armorer. I guess the rationale is that you could intentionally load it, after they've stated it was cold.

My view on that is that I would require them to demonstrate, to me, that it is in fact cold, when the weapon was handed to me.

Of course, hindsight, etc...
But is it a reasonable expectation for every actor who ever handles a firearm in the filming of a movie to be proficient in handling firearms, or is the best practice to have an expert on set to handle the oversight? I'm definitely conflicted on this question and can see the arguments for both sides.
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Old 03-11-22, 03:43 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by jjcool
It's thinking like that, that allowed this tragedy to occur. One would think, especially given the politics of many in Hollywood, that they would insist on having more safeguards in place, not less, with regards to firearms. Yet, because someone is "told" that a gun is cold that's enough to absolve someone of killing another. Why not go the extra step and make sure that the gun is safe yourself?
Because you're an actor on a movie set and checking to make certain the gun isn't loaded is someone else's job.

Should Baldwin go the extra step and make sure the cinematographer is using the correct lens? Should he be making sure the lighting fixtures are secure? Making sure the craft table is stocked?

Also, Baldwin has been acting for 40 years. He's made a hundred movies. At what point do you just trust that the people around you are doing their jobs, so that you can concentrate on your job?
Baldwin has made MANY movies in which he has held a gun. Do you think he ever once wondered if the gun he was holding was somehow loaded?
Old 03-11-22, 03:47 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by jjcool
Yeah. Seems pretty common sense to me, and something I would insist upon if I were ever in that position, but this is Hollywood we are talking about.
IDK what you do for a living, but you must be a treat to work with if it is your practice to doubt and double-check the work of everyone around you.
Old 03-11-22, 03:56 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by jjcool
It's thinking like that, that allowed this tragedy to occur. One would think, especially given the politics of many in Hollywood, that they would insist on having more safeguards in place, not less, with regards to firearms. Yet, because someone is "told" that a gun is cold that's enough to absolve someone of killing another. Why not go the extra step and make sure that the gun is safe yourself?
It's not like these kinds of tragedy occur every couple of week, months or years, not even once in a decade. While I'm not saying the actor should check himself, it's like the advise from the shop after changing the tires. Hardly anybody checks the tires after 50 miles. I'm sure sometimes cars lose tires after being changed in the shop, but compared to the successful changes it's just not worth mentioning.

I don't want to downplay the tragedy, this should never have happened and was preventable, but it's not like Alec Baldwin was super reckless, he did what he and every other actor does over and over again. The system works until someone screws up, which only happens every other decade.
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Old 03-11-22, 04:27 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
IDK what you do for a living, but you must be a treat to work with if it is your practice to doubt and double-check the work of everyone around you.

That is called Quality Control.

Old 03-11-22, 04:37 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by d2cheer
That is called Quality Control.
That's not how quality control works. That's called doing everybody's job for them.
Old 03-11-22, 05:31 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by John Galt
But is it a reasonable expectation for every actor who ever handles a firearm in the filming of a movie to be proficient in handling firearms, or is the best practice to have an expert on set to handle the oversight? I'm definitely conflicted on this question and can see the arguments for both sides.
I think it's probably best to have a firearms expert handling all of the gun stuff.

An actor is, potentially, going to be handling a lot of different kinds of firearms during their career. Revolvers. Mags. Rifles. Shotguns. Assault rifles. Antique firearms. I think it's probably in everyone's best interest to have one person or a small team of experts setting up all of the firearms.

And we're not just dealing with name actors; there are also extras and stand-ins and doubles who will also be handling the firearms.

I know that people get pissy because Baldwin didn't check the gun before he handled it, but I don't know if it's a good idea for actors to be opening up their guns, unloading them, inspecting them, and reloading them on the set. They could unwittingly do something to jam the gun, obstruct the barrel, put a bullet in the wrong chamber, etc. I think it's best to have one person setting up all of the guns who is meticulous, safety-minded, and an expert on all forms of firearms. (Obviously, the Rust production failed on this end.)

I don't think it's any different than things like stunt work, explosives, cars, or other potentially dangerous things that go on on the sets of movies.

If a stunt co-ordinator makes a mistake, and an actor injures or kills someone during a stunt (driving, explosion, throwing someone through a window or off of roof) it doesn't seem fair to hold the actor accountable when the people responsible for setting up the stunt fucked up by not properly securing a safety harness or putting an explosive in the wrong place. An actor shouldn't be "inspecting" (ie, messing with) safety harnesses or explosives during a shoot. Same with firearms.

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Old 03-11-22, 05:34 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by Count Dooku
That's not how quality control works. That's called doing everybody's job for them.

sure. Quality is always the final check regardless of who has done the work.


Old 03-11-22, 06:21 PM
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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills DP with prop gun, director shot as well

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I think it's probably best to have a firearms expert handling all of the gun stuff.
Agreed with all you posted. Unfortunately with this incident, that doesn’t appear to be the case. Reports seem to be that the dimwit producer is the one who handed the gun to Baldwin and the armorer may not have even been present on set. There were some monumentally boneheaded moves made by numerous people on the set that resulted in Hutchins’ death.

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