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Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Old 12-30-20, 12:01 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

WW lore question - does she ever go back to Themyscira? To gain advice/wisdom on whatever quest she's on, etc. (or in this film's case get the golden armor instead of having it stashed away in some corner) Seems like this would easily help these films. (and this one in particular)
Old 12-30-20, 12:08 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

This movie had no point. Since they decided to trap it in 1984, they painted themselves into a corner with the plot not progressing the total DC Universe narrative and WW can fly... but doesn't use her powers in the "future" based films.
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Old 12-30-20, 12:25 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

The "Hey everybody, please take back your wish" plot device is probably the stupidest Deus Ex Machina move I have ever seen in a movie. Congrats "Hey, my mother was named Martha as well", you're no longer the most embarrassing screenwriting tool in the DCEU!
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Old 12-30-20, 12:47 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
WW lore question - does she ever go back to Themyscira? To gain advice/wisdom on whatever quest she's on, etc. (or in this film's case get the golden armor instead of having it stashed away in some corner) Seems like this would easily help these films. (and this one in particular)
In the comics she goes back and forth regularly, but I believe in the first film they mentioned that she could never come back once she left ("You know if you choose to leave, you may never return")

I have no idea why Asteria didn't come back to Themyscira after she survived, though.

Thinking about the first movie now, was Ares behind World War 2 (and did Diana sit that one out) and the Cold War as well, or did Diana move on from such notions that the gods were behind all conflicts?

While I love continuity and big universes, Wonder Woman as films would work so much better standalone. Wouldn't have to adhere to the stupid "she kept herself hidden until BvS" thing. Or, you know, just don't do prequels. I'm trying to think of prequels that had to tie into sequels that were not only not filled with continuity holes but also stood up as great stories instead of connect the dots.

Last edited by fujishig; 12-30-20 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 12-30-20, 02:03 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ View Post
Remove the unneeded body switch nonsense, add a little more 80’s flare, and polish up the “wishing stone” stuff and you’d have a pretty damn highly rated movie, I bet.
And cut it down by half an hour.

The more I ruminate on it, the more this movie reminds me of Batman Returns: great when it's focused on the hero and/or the feline/female villain, but off-the-rails and boring when focused on the male villain. I really wish Cheetah could have been the sole villain for this movie, but unfortunately superhero movies anymore almost always have to feature a world-threatening event, and Cheetah cannot provide that. But as WW's main villain, she deserved a more central role.
Old 12-30-20, 02:06 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
In the comics she goes back and forth regularly, but I believe in the first film they mentioned that she could never come back once she left ("You know if you choose to leave, you may never return")
She was told the same thing in the Justice League / Justice League Unlimited cartoon series, but still went back numerous times.
Old 12-30-20, 02:22 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Not that any other ending could have saved this movie, but I remember reading that Jenkins said the studio made her change the ending to this one as well as the first WW movie.
Old 12-30-20, 02:28 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I was wondering if this was too many cooks in the kitchen but this was Jenkins all the way through, right?
It’s kind of interesting to see this discussion of blame come up. With this, people are putting the blame on Jenkins, but not the head of DC Films or WB. But when everything goes wrong with SW, everyone throws blame on Kennedy. The truth of it is, they’re all to blame, from the executive level, down to the writing.
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Old 12-30-20, 02:36 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

When "fans" are unhappy with any popular IP, they always blame the director and start talking shit about them.

When Patty Jenkins was hired for the Wonder Woman gig in 2017, some thought it was an odd choice as she really only had TV and Monster on her resume. It got well reviewed and regarded and she got more work out of it and became well regarded.

Now that this movie has had mixed reaction, I see some online have turned on her quickly.

I saw one fucking stupid topic from some pundit saying Should Lucasfilm fire Patty Jenkins from Rogue Squadron for making a terrible Wonder Woman movie? Sometimes I hate the internet.

Rian Johnson made Looper, which had a cult following and did Breaking Bad and he was well regarded, once "fans" saw The Last Jedi and thought it sucked, they quickly turned on him, insulted him and called him a hack filmmaker. You cannot win with genre fans. Once you make something that a certain population doesn't like, they will turn on you fast.

Last edited by DJariya; 12-30-20 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-30-20, 02:42 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
When "fans" are unhappy with any popular IP, they always blame the director and start talking shit about them.

When Patty Jenkins for the Wonder Woman gig in 2017, some thought it was an odd choice as she really only had TV and Monster on her resume. It got well reviewed and regarded and she got more work out of it and became well regarded.

Now that this movie has had mixed reaction, I see some online have turned on her quickly.

Rian Johnson made Looper, which had a cult following and did Breaking Bad and he was well regarded, once "fans" saw The Last Jedi and thought it sucked, they quickly turned on him, insulted him and called him a hack filmmaker. You cannot win with genre fans. Once you make something that a certain population doesn't like, they will turn on you fast.
I completely agree. It’s just I’m curious why in this instance, executive level isn’t being called out to blame. Is it just because nobody knows their name and can’t use it to attack?

For example, this was posted in The Mandalorian thread (this isn’t an attack on you Golden, I just saw it and it helped with my point):
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ View Post
I’m just shocked that there’s a “Team Kathleen Kennedy” among Star Wars fans.

Are there actual fans who think Kennedy did a bang up job on the sequel trilogy?
Why does nothing get said about Walter Hamada for DC?

I’m not saying by any means that any of the mentioned people DON’T deserve blame. Again, I’m just intrigued by why some just blame directors, yet some blame studio heads.
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Old 12-30-20, 03:03 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Certainly the studio at some point had to greenlight the script, and by giving Jenkins the deal they did, that was also their fault. They would've taken a temporary social media hit had Jenkins left, but she was not the only female director out there to choose from.
Old 12-30-20, 03:07 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I don’t think the direction of the movie was even the biggest issue, it was the script. Of course she had her hand in that as well. Callaham came on pretty early I believe to help write it with Jenkins and Johns. But I’m not seeing anyone wonder about his capabilities and worry if the scripts for Shang-Chi or Spider-Verse 2 are in trouble.
Old 12-30-20, 03:11 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Walter Hamada and Toby Emmerich had to also be the main guys who greenlit the script. But, the fact is the average film-goer doesn't know or care who they are. All they know is who the main actor is (Gal) and who directed it (Jenkins)

You talk to some average Joe and chances are they will have no clue Hamada runs DC Films and Emmerich is the chairman of WB, Unless they keep up with the trades and most don't.

Old 12-30-20, 03:21 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
When "fans" are unhappy with any popular IP, they always blame the director and start talking shit about them.

When Patty Jenkins was hired for the Wonder Woman gig in 2017, some thought it was an odd choice as she really only had TV and Monster on her resume. It got well reviewed and regarded and she got more work out of it and became well regarded.

Now that this movie has had mixed reaction, I see some online have turned on her quickly.

I saw one fucking stupid topic from some pundit saying Should Lucasfilm fire Patty Jenkins from Rogue Squadron for making a terrible Wonder Woman movie? Sometimes I hate the internet.

Rian Johnson made Looper, which had a cult following and did Breaking Bad and he was well regarded, once "fans" saw The Last Jedi and thought it sucked, they quickly turned on him, insulted him and called him a hack filmmaker. You cannot win with genre fans. Once you make something that a certain population doesn't like, they will turn on you fast.
Josh Trank suffered a similar fade and even Joss Whedon, somewhat a nerd god has a lot of haters.
Old 12-30-20, 04:01 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast that most outside of the production don't really know who's responsible for the success or failure of a film. Many films may have been saved by The Editor, but the director will generally reap the rewards. Jenkins herself blamed the producers for the perceived third act problems with the original.
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Old 12-30-20, 04:08 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

This definitely feels like a situation where a lot of people are to blame. Just off the top of my head I can think to blame the multiple writers, the editor, and the director. That’s without knowing anything about what was happening behind the production.

Honestly, the only part of the movie that actually felt like everyone had a handle on it was the opening sequence in Themyscira. Everything worked well there.

The rest of the movie fell apart and no one person is to blame. Jenkins is the director so ultimately it falls on her.


And for the record, I also blame more that just Kathleen Kennedy for the Star Wars PT. A lot of people screwed the pooch on that one too.

Last edited by GoldenJCJ; 12-30-20 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 12-30-20, 06:23 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I don't think anyone has any trust in the corporate overlords running the ship. The only reason people thought this would be good is Jenkins, so I think that's why she's getting the blame, just like she and not the overlords got the credit for the first movie.

However, if they made her rewrite the ending/meddled with the scripts, then I'll put the blame back on them, that's why I was asking if she had more control of the ship this time or not.

Last edited by fujishig; 12-30-20 at 06:44 PM.
Old 12-30-20, 07:29 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by dex14 View Post
It’s kind of interesting to see this discussion of blame come up. With this, people are putting the blame on Jenkins, but not the head of DC Films or WB. But when everything goes wrong with SW, everyone throws blame on Kennedy. The truth of it is, they’re all to blame, from the executive level, down to the writing.
I think it’s because Kathleen Kennedy is more of a known figurehead than Walter Hamada is. Hamada is more of a recent addition to DC and wasn’t overseeing the DC films when they were really a shit show there for a while. Kennedy has been on board with Lucasfilm since Disney acquired them, and was responsible for the sequels, which many have obviously expressed disappointment with.

Jenkins isn’t solely to blame, but she did write and direct this so a lot of the blame should fall on her. Also the fact that her filmography doesn’t include a hell of a lot in terms of actual films it’s kind of easy to look at it like the first Wonder Woman was a lucky job for her to land seeing as she directed it, but didn’t write it.
Old 12-30-20, 08:30 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by dex14 View Post
It’s kind of interesting to see this discussion of blame come up. With this, people are putting the blame on Jenkins, but not the head of DC Films or WB. But when everything goes wrong with SW, everyone throws blame on Kennedy. The truth of it is, they’re all to blame, from the executive level, down to the writing.
We're also dealing with different corporate cultures.

With Lucasfilm, the sense I get is that Kennedy tends to micromanage the content of the films. Much like what Kevin Feige does with Marvel.

And if Marvel starts putting out shitty movies, Feige will get the blame, too.

With Warners/DC, it often feels like they just hand out properties to directors and then let them do whatever they want to. Sometimes you get a Dark Knight trilogy, and sometimes you get Catwoman.

With the DC movies, you really get the sense that nobody is in charge. With Marvel, Feige is the one pulling the strings. And with Lucasfilm, there's Kennedy and her "Story Group" who are shepherding the films.
Old 12-30-20, 08:44 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

What does Hamada even do?

It seems like all of the recent DC movies have just been more of Warners flinging shit at the wall to see what sticks.

There was a time, around Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice, where it felt like they were trying to create a cohesive cinematic universe, but that all went out the window when they started working on Justice League; even before that movie flopped, it seemed like they scaled back their ambitions for the cinematic universe when they pulled Darkseid out of it in the development stage.
Old 12-30-20, 11:45 PM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I give DC more leeway than other films, because I've been such a huge fanboy all my life.

This is the worst fucking superhero movie since Green Lantern. I'm giving it 4 out of 10 and I'm being generous.
Old 12-31-20, 08:42 AM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

WW84 became the exact film that naysayers and "female superhero movies don't work"-proclaimers were convinced the first Wonder Woman movie would be.
Old 12-31-20, 08:53 AM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I live-roasted this movie on FB last night (I'm home sick with literally have nothing else to do, thanks COVID!) and said the same exact thing.

As the caption put it: “The nerd who forms an attachment to the hero then snaps and turns on them when they get powers.”


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Old 12-31-20, 09:12 AM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy View Post
I live-roasted this movie on FB last night (I'm home sick with literally have nothing else to do, thanks COVID!) and said the same exact thing.

As the caption put it: “The nerd who forms an attachment to the hero then snaps and turns on them when they get powers.”

Don't forget to include The Incredibles.
Old 12-31-20, 11:47 AM
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Re: Wonder Woman 1984 (Jenkins, 2020) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

"You were supposed to UNDERSTAND!!!"

Geoff Johns should stick to comic books.
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