OldBoy

beautiful. makes it more impactful. thanks dex.

Troy Stiffler

Infinity War's best moments were Thanos arriving on Earth the first time. It was a perfectly paced buildup.

I'm more about finding special moments in a movie, rather than sitting back and enjoying an entire scene.

I must be getting old. Watching the action sequences just don't get me light they used to. I am more on board for the build up to those action sequences, and the drama. Dr Strange holding up his one-chance finger is more emotive than twenty minutes of people fighting and blowing stuff up.

OldBoy

Was there any rhyme or reason explained in movie, most likely Endgame), lore of comics of who/why they got wiped out as the 1/2 of pop. and who didn’t?

Michael Corvin

I'll give the edge to Endgame if only because they finally got rid of that insufferable Stark/Iron Man.

IBJoel

Simple random chance. But a full listing of who got snapped? I don't know that there was that, but I recall now and then the directors would clarify. I believe Thunderbolt Ross and Shuri were confirmed among the off-screen snapped.

My bugaboo was WHAT got snapped. Thanos says "half of all life", but that wouldn't fix food shortages, since it would also wipe out half of plants. Black Widow says Thanos destroyed "half of all living creatures", implying that it was merely animals who were killed, which makes the food issue OK mostly if everyone goes vegetarian (although people who rely on fishing are not going to fare well). But we only see sapient species actually killed and Captain America mentions whale populations recovering (which I'm not a cetologist, but 5 years doesn't seem like enough time for them to more-than-double their numbers).

My biggest issue with Endgame is that it sets up this insane world, but never wants to live in it. I needed like a full hour, starting with the press conference or whatever, where Captain America tells the world "we goofed" and then covers the 3 weeks between the end of Infinity War and the beginning of Endgame. Who's president? Are political squabbles now resolved that we have both aliens and an unimaginable global crisis? How do the Avengers handle it? How did Norway react to a bunch of gods saying "we're going to live here now"? Is Okoye de facto queen of Wakanda? How does that second press conference go, when Cap tells everyone "We tried to fix it, but couldn't. On the upside, space is pretty cool"?

GoldenJCJ

^ While accurate, I think that’s overthinking it.

In reality, they needed a way to focus on the original 6 Avengers and had to come up with a quick way to get rid of everyone else for the majority of the movie.

Why So Blu?

Infinity War has more rock n roll. Endgame has the first, but brief fight with Thanos, and then the final act. The rest of the 2.5 hours is a fucking chore to get through now and I saw this shit twice on the same day in theaters. Does not translate well on home video -- I just fast forward the shit to the final fight and turn it off.

IBJoel

I don't care about the original 6 Avengers, though. And arguably the most interesting development (Professor Hulk) happens offscreen. You simply can't have a cast of 6 and make it about their emotional growth and not have the movie be about that. Endgame tries to have it both ways, where it's partially about personal lives, but then that drama is ultimately rendered moot because there is no consequence (aside from Iron Man). Everyone magically gets what they want. Black Widow dies, but only has a single major scene prior to her death.

I guess my issue is that I essentially have no emotional attachment to the actual characters. I think the movies are pretty fun and well-acted and explore an exciting world, but none of the Avengers films is frankly capable of having meaningful emotionality because each act needs to have a fancy fist fight (which I enjoy!). Civil War is a perfect example: The first act is about the fallout of violence and unchecked power. The person most effected by this is Scarlet Witch, her existence being both a result of that escalation, herself having unchecked, difficult to control power, and her actions resulting in deaths of innocent people. Then the movie pivots and all but ignores the character that has the strongest emotional attachment to the theme the filmmakers have set up. Yes, I understand that it is a Captain America movie. Yes, I understand that these movies are there for some lighthearted eye candy (which is the part that works best and I like most), but the Russos in particular are trying to have their cake and eat it too with the films involving more characters. Winter Soldier was the one where they totally nailed it.

So I'd rather they just live in the world they set up and let it breathe and let the audience sit with it for a while, versus resolving emotional tension with either "it was magically fixed" or "and then the bad guys were magically dead". That was another thing. Thanos' defeat totally lacks the catharsis for me. I know he was hoist by his own petard, but I need some viscerality in his death, like the version of him in the beginning.

OldBoy

and i still don't get the Professor Hulk thing. why is he like that?

IBJoel

It isn't explained in Endgame, but this alternate ending for Hulk in Infinity War gives some idea.

OldBoy

^ but that just brushed over it. i just heard we saw him after he busted out of Hulbuster armor and that was it and that he (Professor Hulk) was in comics and stuff, but didn't hear reason why he remained like that. was it just the Banner could finally control and use best of both worlds?

IBJoel

Sorry, I didn't have time to find the deleted scene clip or watch that video (I figured they included the actual clip). Basically when he's fighting Cull Obsidian, he has an extended dialogue with the Hulk, where Hulk says Banner just wants his body and they talk about their feelings toward one another and then it's sort of like Banner's mind in the Hulk's body.

But Professor Hulk is more than just that. Aspects of Hulk's confidence and rage show through in Endgame, implying that as a result of reconciling his repressed psyche with his conscious mind, Bruce Banner also takes on a body that is somewhere in between (his face is more handsome and his musculature is slightly smaller).

OldBoy

That end of Infinity War is so damn good. And so rewatchable.

story

Hmm, a likely story. For someone who claims to not be a cetologist, you sure do post about whales a lot around here... Granted, it's subtle, the text behind the text. But we know it's there. We know what you're up to, with your whale talk, and we will not be party to your shenanigans.

Jason

Whales in the Hudson != populations more than doubling.

I took this line as more of a "without mankind fucking everything up so much, wildlife is doing better."

IBJoel

I am secretly a small whale in a helmet that transcribes my thoughts to English.

That's possible, but also if all life is cut in half (and not just sapient species), that solves only the non-organic resource shortage, the other issues still persist, specifically the problem Thanos explicitly mentions: not enough food. If all life is cut in half, there are now half the amount of bacteria, half the amount of plants/fungi, half the amount of herbivores, and half the amount of predators. The proportions are the same as pre-Snap and therefore the food shortage isn't solved (and the lack of plant life to absorb carbon would actually hasten global warming). So my thought is that it was only sapient species (or dominant species) that were effected by the Snap. But that's all headcanon.

I took Cap's line to mean that both boat traffic was down (obviously, we see that) and that most animal and plant species numbers are beyond what they were pre-Snap, meaning that those species were not effected or got biz-zay. Obviously, that's just my opinion and Endgame never specifies.

OldBoy

can we please keep all the whale talk to the Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home discussion thread? thanks.

TomOpus

Awww, is your thread getting inane?

johnnysd

I just think both are incredibly overrated. There are just so superficial and repetitive. I really liked the first Avenger's movie but over time it just became completely overwrouight and frankly boring.

IBJoel

Although I like it more, I consider Infinity War to be more of a theme park ride than a movie. What I'd really like is something to dig into the potential of Civil War and Age of Ultron: What are the implications of having all of this power? Just enforcing the status quo?

GoldenJCJ

I’ve said this before (maybe on this very thread) but that’s one of my issues with the whole MCU. The movies are only as good as the next one. With the exception of a couple movies (Iron Man 1 and Winter Soldier) they don’t seem to do a very effective job of making each movie stand well on its own. The movies seem to exist solely to set up the next movie. It’s also rare that any of the movies have any kind of individual identity.

I like the movies and fell into the trap of buying them all on Blu-ray, but I can’t say I ever really get the urge to re-watch any of the previous movies.

OldBoy

yes, i agree, the first one is really tedious (now, loved it to bits at first), save a couple scenes and it is hard to revisit, but i think IW and EG have so much replayability and great moments that have the same effect every time you see them. they are really great superhero and and movies in general. very good, even more fleshed out character moments. you feel, you laugh, you weep, you get excited, these 2 are rarities in the end of a saga that began so long ago. these two undid Ultron, the first and just wrapped up this phase perfectly. i still love and feel every moment. the swelling of the music, the theme, great story, characters. it just works. it's how SW should have ended, but obviously didn't...

johnnysd

Yeah I agree with that. Almost to the point that the biggest thing was the post credits scene. It probably doesnt help that I don't really like the Captain America character, nor love any of the others either. I enjoyed a couple of the movies, but they were just all the same to me. I have not seen any of them more than once. Only 1 I would rewatch might be the original GOTG

Draven

Aren’t some animal populations surging due to the pandemic? 5 years seems like enough time for big changes.

I love Infinity War but the fact that Starlord dooms the universe by being a dipshit puts Endgame over it. And the final Endgame battle will never be topped.

IBJoel

Those were some memes circulating because of some bad info. I know in particular the "dolphins have returned to the Venice canals" image being passed around was actually from a few years ago.

But based on your point, I did look up whale reproduction rates and gestation periods are usually a year or more, with a single calf. Typically they have a baby every 1-6 years. Yes, I have chosen a very stupid tangent to go on for my thesis on The Snap.