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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Old 04-07-20, 11:27 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that people that complain about political or "SJW" stuff in Star Wars (or Star Trek, for that matter) are fucking stupid. Star Wars was literally about a group of terrorists freedom fighters going up against a fascist empire. The very first movie had a 19 year old female Senator having to take charge of her own rescue mission, and this after telling multiple Imperials (including the second most powerful evil space wizard in existence) to "fuck off" right to their faces.

And I don't care for hate-watching at all. I enjoy reaction videos of people reacting to surprising plot twists or such, but I can't fathom people who spend all their day watching something they hate.

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Old 04-07-20, 12:50 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Thank you Milo...if I think I am falling into a trap of hate-watching something (movie or network/cable/streaming show) I try to tell myself to knock it off and stop watching and trying to fool myself that I should like what I am watching because someone on the internet said I should love whatever it is I am watching. Not to mention, I do not have enough bandwidth to spend so much time watching something I do not like.

Case in point, AV Club highlights how Breeders on FX is the perfect shelter in place show to binge but I quickly realized I would keep watching Breeders due to what I read on the internet and not because I took a shine to the show so I culled it from my Tivo One Pass list.

Anyway, sorry for the thread digression as I used my brothers family share on itunes set-up to watch this past Sunday and the conclusion to the saga put a smile on my face. The biggest surprise for me was Adam Driver who I thought was really good in this film.
Old 04-07-20, 03:47 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Inhumans99 View Post
Thank you Milo...if I think I am falling into a trap of hate-watching something (movie or network/cable/streaming show) I try to tell myself to knock it off and stop watching and trying to fool myself that I should like what I am watching because someone on the internet said I should love whatever it is I am watching. Not to mention, I do not have enough bandwidth to spend so much time watching something I do not like.

Case in point, AV Club highlights how Breeders on FX is the perfect shelter in place show to binge but I quickly realized I would keep watching Breeders due to what I read on the internet and not because I took a shine to the show so I culled it from my Tivo One Pass list.

Anyway, sorry for the thread digression as I used my brothers family share on itunes set-up to watch this past Sunday and the conclusion to the saga put a smile on my face. .
I really loved it too, and can't fathom how much hate it gets. It's not perfect, but it's a goofy, fun space adventure.

The biggest surprise for me was Adam Driver who I thought was really good in this film
There's a reason this meme has gone around a few times...

Spoiler:


Old 04-09-20, 09:25 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

So I watched this again last night for the first time since the theater and it just hammered home how badly Rian Johnson mis-stepped with TLJ. As I've noted before, it's a perfectly good Star Wars film, but it's a terrible Episode 8. It's bracketed by 7 and 9 that both have a tone much closer in feel to the OT, and it's stuck in the middle trying to be this avant garde, Oscar bait character drama. I feel if he had been allowed to do one of the stand alone films, or even a trilogy that wasn't in the main saga, it would be great, but what we got just doesn't work.

So of course TROS has to spend so much of it's runtime doing a course correction. The whole Palpatine has returned and Kylo Ren searching for the holocron Sith wayfinder should have been part of the Ep 8 story. So what we get in TROS is a very cramped set of adventures.

But the good - Rey, Finn and Poe are finally together and how it works. They snip and spark and support and care and love and push and pull and it is glorious to have them all three on screen at the same time together at last.
And the Ben and Han scene is still beautiful.

With a little more pre-planning, could we have gotten a much grander conclusion to the trilogy? Certainly. But as it stands, it feels like a bigger scale Return of the Jedi, and I have always had a soft spot in my heart for that movie, and so TROS is good conclusion to the Skywalker saga and we're ready to move on to more "other" stories in the that big ole galaxy so far, far away.
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Old 04-09-20, 11:07 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Does anyone know why Disney and Lucasfilm decided to originally use three different directors for this trilogy? I know the Original Trilogy used different directors, but that didn't mean they had to for this Sequel Trilogy.

I'm a JJ Abrams fan, so I would have preferred his consistent vision for all three films.
Old 04-09-20, 11:21 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by MLBFan24 View Post
Does anyone know why Disney and Lucasfilm decided to originally use three different directors for this trilogy? I know the Original Trilogy used different directors, but that didn't mean they had to for this Sequel Trilogy.

I'm a JJ Abrams fan, so I would have preferred his consistent vision for all three films.
I think it was due to the rushed production schedule. They wanted them out every two years instead of 3 like 1-6 were done. If they had done that, then JJ could have been able to do all three.
They still could have made every 2 years work with three different directors if they had a better overall story planned. They insist they had one but I feel like it was more of an outline than an actual story arc.
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Old 04-09-20, 11:56 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I kind of doubt there was even an outline given the results, unless they just completely redid it between movies.
Old 04-09-20, 12:49 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I'm not sure JJ had any interest in doing more than one, so even if the schedule was different, I'm not sure that changes.
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Old 04-09-20, 02:01 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by rocket1312 View Post
I'm not sure JJ had any interest in doing more than one, so even if the schedule was different, I'm not sure that changes.

I was under that same impression. As much as I dislike this movie, it's hard to argue that the trilogy as a whole wouldn't have been better off with one director for all three films, even if it was JJ.
Old 04-09-20, 03:38 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Rian Johnson stated that when writing TLJ, he didn't have anything to go off of other than the script for TFA. There wasn't an "outline" for the entire trilogy to go off of.

There were reports that JJ had certain ideas of what the answers to some of the mysteries he had set up might be, but nothing was set in stone. Also, JJ was initially just interested in doing the first one, it wasn't until Lucasfilm fired Colin Trevorrow that they basically begged JJ to come back to close up the series.

And yes, part of the reasoning for different a writer/director for each episode was to get each film out in 2 years, with pre-production for the next starting before the last one was finished. Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow were hired the summer before TFA was released. Disney was keen on having a new Star Wars film every May, although every film but Solo was eventually pushed back to December.
Old 04-09-20, 03:43 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Rian Johnson stated that when writing TLJ, he didn't have anything to go off of other than the script for TFA. There wasn't an "outline" for the entire trilogy to go off of.

There were reports that JJ had certain ideas of what the answers to some of the mysteries he had set up might be, but nothing was set in stone. Also, JJ was initially just interested in doing the first one, it wasn't until Lucasfilm fired Colin Trevorrow that they basically begged JJ to come back to close up the series.

And yes, part of the reasoning for different a writer/director for each episode was to get each film out in 2 years, with pre-production for the next starting before the last one was finished. Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow were hired the summer before TFA was released. Disney was keen on having a new Star Wars film every May, although every film but Solo was eventually pushed back to December.
And Solo suffered for it. That was absolutely stupid of Disney to not give Ron Howard the additional time to work on that film, plus let some of the negative energy from TLJ subside. Solo is a pretty fun little romp, but it caught a lot of residual hate from TLJ and pushing it to December would have softened that. They had a great thing going, it was an awesome Christmas present those four years, to get a new Star Wars movie.
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Old 04-09-20, 03:50 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post
And Solo suffered for it. That was absolutely stupid of Disney to not give Ron Howard the additional time to work on that film, plus let some of the negative energy from TLJ subside. Solo is a pretty fun little romp, but it caught a lot of residual hate from TLJ and pushing it to December would have softened that. They had a great thing going, it was an awesome Christmas present those four years, to get a new Star Wars movie.
Solo was a yawn, and I don't think there was "residual hate" from TLJ for the bulk of the audience. But I do think it suffered from the director change, and it came out too soon after the last Star Wars movie. Disney seemed to be thinking that Star Wars could be like Marvel with multiple movies out a year, but where Marvel had slowly built up their production schedule and varied their output among many different characters, Star Wars was still considered "event" cinema, with an insular cast of characters. So I do think Solo would've done better as a Christmas release, although I don't know if Ron Howard was necessarily hampered by the rushed production schedule.
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Old 04-09-20, 09:22 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Rian Johnson stated that when writing TLJ, he didn't have anything to go off of other than the script for TFA. There wasn't an "outline" for the entire trilogy to go off of.
That doesn’t surprise me at all, and if anything it solidifies my belief that RJ did a great job making a story based on the few crumbs he was given.

This is off topic from TRoS, but I would love to see whatever publisher that does the SW books take a cue from DC Comics Elseworld’s concept and start releasing books that are set outside of continuity. Actually, ya know what? I’m going to stop this thought here and just make a thread over in Book Talk instead.
Old 04-09-20, 10:16 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Tom Banjo View Post
This is off topic from TRoS, but I would love to see whatever publisher that does the SW books take a cue from DC Comics Elseworld’s concept and start releasing books that are set outside of continuity. Actually, ya know what? I’m going to stop this thought here and just make a thread over in Book Talk instead.
OK, here’s that thread if anyone wants to engage in this thought experiment with me:
https://forum.dvdtalk.com/book-talk/...pe-format.html
Old 04-27-20, 10:12 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

This will come to Disney+ two months early on May 4th.
Old 04-27-20, 01:00 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I've watched TROS multiple times now and it's a shame as it's a fun/good film until you get to the Palpatine ending. Honestly, the movie and Trilogy falls like a House of Cards in the last act as it's part ridiculous/part makes no sense/part unoriginal. I enjoy that Poe/Rey/Finn are together in this film as it's a good adventure film for the first 80 minutes. If someone can explain to me what Palpatine's plan was as I don't know if he wanted Rey dead, or alive, or Kylo to be his apprentice, or both Rey/Kylo to become a part of his spirit if they died? And why did Ben Solo die after he kissed Rey, as he gave his soul to her? But when she brought him back to life earlier in the movie, she survived? I'm so confused.....
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Old 04-27-20, 01:17 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
I've watched TROS multiple times now and it's a shame as it's a fun/good film until you get to the Palpatine ending. Honestly, the movie and Trilogy falls like a House of Cards in the last act as it's part ridiculous/part makes no sense/part unoriginal. I enjoy that Poe/Rey/Finn are together in this film as it's a good adventure film for the first 80 minutes. If someone can explain to me what Palpatine's plan was as I don't know if he wanted Rey dead, or alive, or Kylo to be his apprentice, or both Rey/Kylo to become a part of his spirit if they died? And why did Ben Solo die after he kissed Rey, as he gave his soul to her? But when she brought him back to life earlier in the movie, she survived? I'm so confused.....
Palpatine's plan was to have Kylo bring Rey to him so he could turn her to the Dark Side (as discussed earlier, the whole "hate turns you to the Dark Side" seems fuzzy at best, though) and have her become his new vessel.

The whole "brought back to life" part can probably be explained to how close to death he was, at some point the magical Jedi healing power can only do so much, and/or like his namesake he wanted to pass on.
Old 04-27-20, 01:32 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
If someone can explain to me what Palpatine's plan was as I don't know if he wanted Rey dead, or alive, or Kylo to be his apprentice, or both Rey/Kylo to become a part of his spirit if they died?
Yes.




Honestly, Palpatine's "plan" seems to flip on a dime a half dozen times in the film, primarily in the last act. Initially, he wanted Kylo to be his new apprentice, although maybe this was a ploy. When Rey shows up, Palpatine wants Rey to kill him, at which point Palpatine and all previous Sith will "exist" within her. Palpatine is shown as frail at this point, and maybe he's determined that he's going to die soon, and continuing to exist is Rey is better than just outright dying. It's not clear if he was planning on the same with Kylo if Rey didn't show up.

But then when Kylo and Rey are together, Palpatine apparently realizes for the first time that they're one of those "dyad" things this movie made up, and can, for some reason, instead harness both of their energy to rejuvinate himself. So, at this point, the "plan" appears to be siphon Kylo/Ren, kill them (via siphoning?), and then keep living as Palpatine for a few more decades.


Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
And why did Ben Solo die after he kissed Rey, as he gave his soul to her? But when she brought him back to life earlier in the movie, she survived? I'm so confused.....
It's been a while since I saw the film (once in theaters), but Kylo didn't actually die earlier in the film when Rey wounded him. It was a mortal wound, so he would've died if she hadn't healed him, but I think he was still conscious, but weak, when she healed him earlier.

Obviously, bringing someone back to life is just like healing someone, but like, more. So Kylo had to channel so much of his lifeforce (that's what Rey calls it with the snake, right?) into Rey to resurrect her that he didn't have enough to sustain himself anymore.


In reality, the actual mechanics of these scene and how the Force works doesn't seem to really matter to the screenwriters. They seem to have built things on a scene-by-scene basis, and just make up a lot on the fly to "explain" a particular scene. Palpatine needs to provide some sort of temptation to Rey to turn dark, before she reject him, then Palpatine needs to be a credible threat, and Kylo needs to ultimately die to complete their Vader rip-off. The actual plot machinations were a means to and end, and they weren't too concerned if all the gears actually fit together as long as they turned at the points they needed it to.

Last edited by Jay G.; 04-27-20 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 04-27-20, 01:38 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Basically if you can make it past the part where the dagger that killed Rey's parents (which she conveniently found) is also the Sith artifact that is carved in the very specific shape of the Death Star throne room that happened to make it intact to the surface of the planet and Rey is in the exact right place for the outline to match up to find the secret door to the location of one of only two holocrons in existence, then you will buy anything they throw at you afterwards, including riding alien horses to attack a starship that has a turret that can be rotated to fire on the ship's own bridge.
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Old 04-27-20, 01:41 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
...a starship that has a turret that can be rotated to fire on the ship's own bridge.
What if there's a fly on the bridge's window, huh? You expect them to not use a turret to fire at the bridge to get the fly and/or shoo it away?
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Old 04-27-20, 02:16 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post


In reality, the actual mechanics of these scene and how the Force works doesn't seem to really matter to the screenwriters. They seem to have built things on a scene-by-scene basis, and just make up a lot on the fly to "explain" a particular scene. Palpatine needs to provide some sort of temptation to Rey to turn dark, before she reject him, then Palpatine needs to be a credible threat, and Kylo needs to ultimately die to complete their Vader rip-off. The actual plot machinations were a means to and end, and they weren't too concerned if all the gears actually fit together as long as they turned at the points they needed it to.
That makes sense. I hate to overanalyze a SW film as I feel we all nitpick too much, but this is the ending of the movie/trilogy so it has to stick the landing. I just think the difference between ROTJ and TROS is motivations of the characters, and the audience relating to their actions. ROTJ works because the plan is pretty simple in that The Emperor wants to replace Vader with a younger Luke, and Luke foils his plan when he throws down the saber (Let me tell you that people were shocked in the theater in 1983 when he did that). When Vader saves Luke, the audience can relate to that too as it's a father/son bond in the end that redeems him. Now this was before the PT and we didn't know how Darth Vader got there, so it worked in that respect. TROS ending is just all over the place as there is no emotional weight to it, except for the Rey-Lo people who got their wish. Luke/Vader had a father/son bond, but what did Rey/Kylo have? Love? Lust? I thought the kiss at the end of the movie came out of nowhere, as the part where he dies and brings her back just doesn't work for me. That's just me, so I'm sure people feel different.
Old 04-27-20, 03:36 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I think that final scene with the emperor in ROTJ is also problematic, but forgiven due to the time it was made and how beloved the trilogy was.

What was the emperor's plan? To turn Luke to the dark side and have him as an apprentice. Now I don't remember if they reference the rule of two in the movie itself or if it was just widely publicized after the fact. But what happens (IIRC, which I may not) is that the Emperor taunts Luke with his friends dying into trying to kill him in hatred. I guess he counts on Vader blocking the attack (because Luke does attack in anger). So at that point what the hell is Vader doing, doesn't he want to overthrow the Emperor and have Luke by his side, which would have been completed if Luke killed the emperor? Does he not know the rule of two? In a narrative sense it makes a little more sense in TROS that the emperor will take over Rey's body if she strikes him down, and it makes more sense that he was tricking Kylo with reverse psychology and was willing to accept whichever one made it back to him.
Old 04-27-20, 04:02 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I think Palpatine and Vader both had different endgames in mind. Vader thought he and Luke could overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son. Whereas I feel like Palpatine wanted Luke to kill Vader to turn him and join him as his new apprentice. That’s how always took it at least.

The rule of two wasn’t exactly established at that point but if Luke wound up killing Vader then problem solved for Palpatine. In the other scenario I imagine there would have been a betrayal at some point later. Probably didn’t have to happen at that exact point.
Old 04-27-20, 04:14 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Vader wanted to overthrow the Emperor but ultimately when push came to shove he didn't have the stones (literally and figuratively) to go through with it.
It wasn't until Palpatine was torturing his son that he was finally able to step up.
Vader/Anakin was always controlled through fear. While he wanted to kill his master, he couldn't and I'm sure the Emperor knew this and taunted him all the time.
Old 04-27-20, 04:17 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Abrams, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
I think Palpatine and Vader both had different endgames in mind. Vader thought he and Luke could overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son. Whereas I feel like Palpatine wanted Luke to kill Vader to turn him and join him as his new apprentice. That’s how always took it at least.

The rule of two wasn’t exactly established at that point but if Luke wound up killing Vader then problem solved for Palpatine. In the other scenario I imagine there would have been a betrayal at some point later. Probably didn’t have to happen at that exact point.
Oh I understand that Vader and the Emperor had different intentions (both wanted to be the master) but the Emperor is like "strike me down, Luke, do it, do it, give in to your hatred" which I always thought was a weird way to recruit someone. Obviously we don't know this until later but with Vader and Kylo, he manipulated them to the point where they felt there was no redemption left. With Luke, it's like, give in to your hate and somehow you're going to agree to be my apprentice just because. Same with Rey, except they introduced what seems like a lame "take over your body plot" but it still makes more sense than "hate me so much you'll join me after I killed all your friends."

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