Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
In the 70's we had Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris. The 80's still saw Norris kicking butt and the late 80's saw the rise of Van Damme and Seagal. In the early- late 90's Van Damme and Segal were still going(mostly) strong, the straight to video market was being held down by the Jeff Speakman, Don"the dragon" Wilson's and Cynthia Rothrocks of the world. The 90's also saw the emergence of Jackie Chan and Jet Li finally starting to become big names in the US. And now the martial arts movie star seems to be a thing of the past. While probably the closest to a martial arts movie star of the last twenty years has probably been Keanu Reeves and Jason Statham. Scott Adkins has a big following in the straight to DVD world but no one wants to try and make him a star. Donnie Yen and other Asian actors are still big overseas, but no one has been able to cross over in the United States.So what killed the martial arts movie star and will we ever see another one again in the US?
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
What killed it? Language barrier and lack of a story for a martial arts movie. You still have Keanu to fall back on as a major star. The last 'martial artist' that could be a star would be Michael Jai White. I don't think Iko and that crew could carry a US film. Wu Assassins is horrible.
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Is Wu Assassins horrible? Damn, that sucks.
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Martial Arts movies are a bit of a speciality of mine
If we take the american scene first. Yeah you had Chuck Norris (who during his whole career, fight scene wise never did anything which came close to his fight with Bruce Lee in Way/Return of the Dragon,), then Van Damme, Seagal and a heap of B listers following. The american scene started to die with the rise of MMA and the decline of traditional martial arts. MMA does not translate well to movies as has been shown and with only a few exceptions, MMA fighters make terrible screen fighters Screen fighting is all about crisp technique and some of the best screen martial artists had a competition forms background, which is all about technique. Cynthia Rothrock and Keith Cooke Hirabayashi are two great examples of this. It's a shame Keith couldn't act and didn't have quite enough to carry a whole movie, because his fight technique on screen is amazing. Check this out of you want an example so we had a heap of rubbish MMA based films or films with MMA fighters and they pretty much killed the genre in the US. Yes there is Scott Adkins and Michael Jai White, aside form the fact they are both getting on, they are very clearly B level in terms of acting/overall appeal. I personally think Michael Jai white is a bit clunky on screen and i do really like Scott Adkins and watch everything he is in, but his choregraphy is a bit repetitive Iko and Tony Jaa are two of the best in terms of amazing fight scenes, but don't quite have the international appeal like a Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan to carry international movies on their own. They will always be bit parters in Hollywood movies or stars in lower budget asian productions Even Jet Li struggled to really get a foothold in Hollywood Donnie Yen is getting on, (as of course are Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung) there are many Hong Kong movie stars, but no real young successors to the throne in terms of martial arts movie stars in HK. There's probably a fair bit of 'new talent being held down' in the HK film industry There's also that element nowadays that just about anyone can be choregraphed to look like a bad ass on screen. From Denzel to Keanu to Matt Damon to a hundred more. Short sharp, easy to learn techniques with great editing. Not much technical skill required Check out the Martial Club youtube channel These guys can do some amazing techniques, Not sure they can act or carry a whole film, but they have technique check out this video Hollywood nowadays is a lot of FX based than it used to be There is less and less need for real world skill anymore Just like there are many decent physiques in Hollywood nowadays, there are none (amongst the A list/ AB list) who even come without a country mile or Arnie and Sly in their prime in the 80s/early 90s |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
(Post 13603620)
Is Wu Assassins horrible? Damn, that sucks.
I do like Iko and most of his movies were pretty good; especially the choreography but he's lacking that certain something to really break out in the U.S. |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by Original Desmond
(Post 13603639)
. MMA does not translate well to movies as has been shown and with only a few exceptions, MMA fighters make terrible screen fighters
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8VfAWV_3dCU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Cq3bV5W5COY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by mrhan
(Post 13603647)
The only two movies I can recall with really good MMA choreography are Donnie Yen's Sha Po Long and Flashpoint. Plus, that knife fight scene in SPL is still so bad ass today.
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Unfortunately, with the demise of grindhouse theaters and the relegation of mid-range genre films to cable and streaming, there's no real market for theatrical martial arts films of the type I used to go see in Times Square theaters (Seagal, Van Damme, Jet Li, et al). It's such a niche audience today that it's hard for an emerging star to build a following. The last remotely comparable film like this I saw in a theater was the Chinese propaganda film, WOLF WARRIOR II (2017), starring Wu Jing, who's in his 40s now. Think RAMBO from a Mainland Chinese perspective. It played at a single Times Square multiplex for a couple of weeks two years ago and the audience was mostly Chinese.
Nowadays, aren't there a bunch of Netflix superhero shows with martial arts battles? That's where the audience seems to get its fix. There are occasional martial arts films from China, but they rely heavily on CGI and they're just not very good. I would love to have seen more American martial arts stars emerge in the last 20 years, but no producer or studio had an interest in committing to such a project. I can't blame them, but it leaves me with time to re-watch my extensive collection of kung fu classics. |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
(Post 13603696)
Nowadays, aren't there a bunch of Netflix superhero shows with martial arts battles? That's where the audience seems to get its fix. There are occasional martial arts films from China, but they rely heavily on CGI and they're just not very good. I would love to have seen more American martial arts stars emerge in the last 20 years, but no producer or studio had an interest in committing to such a project. I can't blame them, but it leaves me with time to re-watch my extensive collection of kung fu classics.
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by devilshalo
(Post 13603673)
I can't see an action film incorporating jiu jitsu in the way that Red Belt did. It's very slow and mostly about positioning.
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by mrhan
(Post 13603641)
Yeah, sort of....I stopped watching after the 3rd episode and was going to finish it up later but it's been a couple of weeks and I still haven't gotten back to it. I think it's the fantasy angle that's turning me off. If they kept it a straight martial arts/gangster movie I would be more inclined to finish it.
I do like Iko and most of his movies were pretty good; especially the choreography but he's lacking that certain something to really break out in the U.S. |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Just watched in the line of duty 4 (1989) on bluray with a very young Donnie Yen
Boy his kicks were crisp |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by robin2099
(Post 13603592)
In the 70's we had Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris. The 80's still saw Norris kicking butt and the late 80's saw the rise of Van Damme and Seagal. In the early- late 90's Van Damme and Segal were still going(mostly) strong, the straight to video market was being held down by the Jeff Speakman, Don"the dragon" Wilson's and Cynthia Rothrocks of the world. The 90's also saw the emergence of Jackie Chan and Jet Li finally starting to become big names in the US. And now the martial arts movie star seems to be a thing of the past. While probably the closest to a martial arts movie star of the last twenty years has probably been Keanu Reeves and Jason Statham. Scott Adkins has a big following in the straight to DVD world but no one wants to try and make him a star. Donnie Yen and other Asian actors are still big overseas, but no one has been able to cross over in the United States.So what killed the martial arts movie star and will we ever see another one again in the US?
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
(Post 13603696)
Unfortunately, with the demise of grindhouse theaters and the relegation of mid-range genre films to cable and streaming, there's no real market for theatrical martial arts films of the type I used to go see in Times Square theaters (Seagal, Van Damme, Jet Li, et al). It's such a niche audience today that it's hard for an emerging star to build a following.
I remember because of Jet Li's popularity in the early 2000s, many of his films made overseas were getting Theatrical Releases here, such as Hero (2002), Fearless (2006). Rogue Pictures even gave Danny The Dog/Unleashed (2005) a release in theaters. In the States at least, it looks like Well Go USA has taken on the mantle to distribute Action Films made in Asia both to (hopefully) new audiences or to those of us who hope to see these films in theaters, even if it's for a limited time. In San Francisco, CA, Well Go USA usually screens their bigger films at two specific theaters and even then, as you mentioned, the audience is usually made up of the Asian Community as well as folks who love the Genre. Still, it's great to see folks like Scott Adkins, Iko Uwais, Yayan Ruhian & Joe Taslim getting big opportunities in Hollywood in various roles. |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by mrhan
(Post 13603930)
That's true. Real life fighting techniques doesn't translate at all in films. Even Bruce Lee admits the training he does in real life isn't the same thing you see in his films. He did the flashy stuff because it looks good.
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Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
The real problem is that martial arts hold almost no appeal to female audiences, which Hollywood has decided is the only audience worth pursuing in mid-budget and larger films. So the genre has withered on the vine and died for Western audiences. It's also why pure action films rarely get made today. Hong Kong still produces some martial arts but Donnie Yen seems to be the only star left that knows how to get a decent martial arts flick made these days.
The one actor besides Scott Adkins I've seen that has the requisite skills and charisma is Van Damme's protege in the recent Kickboxer sequels. French martial artist Alain Moussi is the real deal, though he's mostly been a stuntman in Hollywood instead of a real star. https://www.doblu.com/2016/11/15/kic...lu-ray-review/ |
Re: Will we ever see another martial arts movie star?
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
(Post 13608041)
The real problem is that martial arts hold almost no appeal to female audiences, which Hollywood has decided is the only audience worth pursuing in mid-budget and larger films. So the genre has withered on the vine and died for Western audiences. It's also why pure action films rarely get made today. Hong Kong still produces some martial arts but Donnie Yen seems to be the only star left that knows how to get a decent martial arts flick made these days.
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