View Poll Results: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
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Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#676
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
The first is the one that Nebula/War Machine/Hawkeye/Widow went to. That one is majorly screwed up, because the Thanos of that timeline went into our reality and got dusted, so there's no Thanos there anymore. Presumably the soul stone got put back so someone else can sacrifice for it, and the one Starlord got was returned so Starlord could steal it. But no Thanos or his minions.
The second is the one that Cap/Iron Man/Ant Man/Hulk went to. They allowed Loki to get away with the Tessaract. Plus they allowed Ancient One a glimpse into the future.
The fourth is where Iron Man and Cap jumped back a second time to re-get the Tesseract. Presumably that's the one Captain America went back and stayed in.
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The second is the one that Cap/Iron Man/Ant Man/Hulk went to. They allowed Loki to get away with the Tessaract. Plus they allowed Ancient One a glimpse into the future.
The fourth is where Iron Man and Cap jumped back a second time to re-get the Tesseract. Presumably that's the one Captain America went back and stayed in.
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2) The Ancient One already knows the future up to the point of her death and already knew the strength of Stephen Strange's character. Hearing about Thanos and the Time Stone may have caused the doubts she expressed in the Doctor Strange movie, as she could not see that far ahead but knew he did something troubling.
4) Cap went back to the 1940's right after the war and lived his entire life with Peggy Carter.
#677
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
1) Thanos had already charged Ronin with retrieving the Orb, so the events of Guardians of the Galaxy would have proceeded exactly as originally portrayed. Ronin talking to and betraying Thanos to his face are unnecessary for the story as a whole.
2) The Ancient One already knows the future up to the point of her death and already knew the strength of Stephen Strange's character. Hearing about Thanos and the Time Stone may have caused the doubts she expressed in the Doctor Strange movie, as she could not see that far ahead but knew he did something troubling.
4) Cap went back to the 1940's right after the war and lived his entire life with Peggy Carter.
2) The Ancient One already knows the future up to the point of her death and already knew the strength of Stephen Strange's character. Hearing about Thanos and the Time Stone may have caused the doubts she expressed in the Doctor Strange movie, as she could not see that far ahead but knew he did something troubling.
4) Cap went back to the 1940's right after the war and lived his entire life with Peggy Carter.
Even if the knowledge of the future didn't change what Ancient One did, that's the same timeline where Loki escaped with the Tesseract, so that's different anyway.
Cap went back to the 1940s but forked off another reality where he lived his life with Peggy Carter. Going to the past and changing things branches off, it doesn't change the present like Back to the Future. Even if he was able to keep a low profile AND resist changing things knowing about Bucky and Hydra infiltrating SHIELD (which Peggy founded), he'd still greatly alter Peggy's family, namely her husband and kids, as well as Peggy's reaction to him when he's thawed out.
Last edited by fujishig; 05-05-19 at 10:28 AM.
#678
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
But again, nothing in the past of the characters changes. You can't go back and kill baby Thanos - they specifically said it wouldn't work like that. So Captain America went through both the events of all of the movies AND lived his life with Peggy Carter. So Bucky and Falcon remembered everything about Cap and he still showed up as an old man without affecting those memories. I think it all comes back to what the characters remember rather than things being physically changed in the timeline.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
#679
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
But again, nothing in the past of the characters changes. You can't go back and kill baby Thanos - they specifically said it wouldn't work like that. So Captain America went through both the events of all of the movies AND lived his life with Peggy Carter. So Bucky and Falcon remembered everything about Cap and he still showed up as an old man without affecting those memories. I think it all comes back to what the characters remember rather than things being physically changed in the timeline.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
#680
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Fortunately that's a "hole" that the overarching plot of the film isn't dependent upon to work. It's simply to provide some exposition (for less agile audience members?) to justify what is intended as emotional closure for the character.
I was satisfied the film did it's due diligence in trying to justify the time shenanigans needed for the plot. It doesn't square up 100%, but close enough for rock and roll...and a better than average comic book superhero extravaganza.
I was satisfied the film did it's due diligence in trying to justify the time shenanigans needed for the plot. It doesn't square up 100%, but close enough for rock and roll...and a better than average comic book superhero extravaganza.
#681
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
New question (I think): Cap saw Peggy in 1970, right? (Through an office window.) Why did she look just as young as she did in the 1940s?
#683
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Fortunately that's a "hole" that the overarching plot of the film isn't dependent upon to work. It's simply to provide some exposition (for less agile audience members?) to justify what is intended as emotional closure for the character.
I was satisfied the film did it's due diligence in trying to justify the time shenanigans needed for the plot. It doesn't square up 100%, but close enough for rock and roll...and a better than average comic book superhero extravaganza.
I was satisfied the film did it's due diligence in trying to justify the time shenanigans needed for the plot. It doesn't square up 100%, but close enough for rock and roll...and a better than average comic book superhero extravaganza.
Really that last time travel bit with cap doesn't make a lot of sense as a whole - because the space/reality/mind stones aren't in their original form, so even that bit is affecting the timeline.
But whatever, it was a good movie.
#684
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Right, that's my understanding as well - and they stuck to that logic for the most part, until they undid all of that logic with the final scene with Cap. It was heavily implied that he was on that bench waiting simply because he was in the same timeline and knew where to be at that time. But he couldn't be in the same timeline, if he altered the past by going back and changing so much.
#685
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
But again, nothing in the past of the characters changes. You can't go back and kill baby Thanos - they specifically said it wouldn't work like that. So Captain America went through both the events of all of the movies AND lived his life with Peggy Carter. So Bucky and Falcon remembered everything about Cap and he still showed up as an old man without affecting those memories. I think it all comes back to what the characters remember rather than things being physically changed in the timeline.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
#686
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
But isn't it possible Steve lived his life with Peggy in the alternate timeline and then when he was old jumped back to the main timeline to give Sam a new shield? In fact, I thought the directors or writers have implied this in their responses since the movie came out.
The good news is there are no answers there either ... the writers and the directors don’t agree on what happened either.
“Avengers: Endgame’ Writers Disagree With Directors About How the Film’s Timeline Works“
https://www.slashfilm.com/endgame-time-travel-writers/
#687
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
But again, nothing in the past of the characters changes. You can't go back and kill baby Thanos - they specifically said it wouldn't work like that. So Captain America went through both the events of all of the movies AND lived his life with Peggy Carter. So Bucky and Falcon remembered everything about Cap and he still showed up as an old man without affecting those memories. I think it all comes back to what the characters remember rather than things being physically changed in the timeline.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
Remember that the "time heist" wasn't about preventing Thanos from doing what he did, it was about going back in time to specific points where they knew the Infinity Stones would be and getting them themselves to undo what he did. Otherwise just stealing the stones would have prevented the Snap from happening but then they wouldn't need to go back in time in the first place but then...but then...but then and so on.
There's no main timeline for Steve to put the stones back. All of those pasts where they slightly altered things became different timelines. Putting the stones back just meant trying to minimize the changes, and not screw them completely over (like had they not returned the time stone that reality was going to be screwed over by not having a sorcerer supreme with that power).
#688
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
OK, let’s try it this way ...
You are looking at time within the human construct of time. You are thinking in terms of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and — in particular — years. These are Earth-bound concepts based on the rotation of a planet and it’s orbit around the sun.
Time, in this galactic conceit, is the movement through reality. Time travel is not altering the linear movement through “Earth time” (years, months, etc.), but moving through the multitude of realities/possibilities (“galactic time”) that exist. By moving into the “past” it becomes your “future” (actually, your “present”) because you can ONLY continue moving forward, just on an alternate “timeline” (or, more accurately, an alternate “reality line”). You cannot go backwards at all.
Here is an illustration:
Your timeline is ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ where each letter represents an event in your life.
There is an alternate reality, uh “time”, where something is different ... maybe you did/didn’t get married. That line goes ABCDEF1G1H1J1 and so on, where at event F your life diverged.
Back in “your world” somewhere around event N, you decide you want to see what would have been. So you travel to the alternate world for F1, G1, and H1 before returning back “home”. So you now see your timeline as ABCDEFGHIJKLMNF1G1H1OPQRSTUVWXYZ. However, you traveling back to F1G1H1 is actually O. O was always you “traveling back”. You can’t change your past or your future (because events that come after the chosen point are already in your past). You can move to an alternate reality.
And now I’ve gone cross eyed.
(And yes, I used the term “home” very deliberately to describe your original “time” line. I think “Far From Home” may have a much different meaning than we previously suspected. Especially with Mysterio being a entity that can alter “reality”.)
You are looking at time within the human construct of time. You are thinking in terms of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and — in particular — years. These are Earth-bound concepts based on the rotation of a planet and it’s orbit around the sun.
Time, in this galactic conceit, is the movement through reality. Time travel is not altering the linear movement through “Earth time” (years, months, etc.), but moving through the multitude of realities/possibilities (“galactic time”) that exist. By moving into the “past” it becomes your “future” (actually, your “present”) because you can ONLY continue moving forward, just on an alternate “timeline” (or, more accurately, an alternate “reality line”). You cannot go backwards at all.
Here is an illustration:
Your timeline is ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ where each letter represents an event in your life.
There is an alternate reality, uh “time”, where something is different ... maybe you did/didn’t get married. That line goes ABCDEF1G1H1J1 and so on, where at event F your life diverged.
Back in “your world” somewhere around event N, you decide you want to see what would have been. So you travel to the alternate world for F1, G1, and H1 before returning back “home”. So you now see your timeline as ABCDEFGHIJKLMNF1G1H1OPQRSTUVWXYZ. However, you traveling back to F1G1H1 is actually O. O was always you “traveling back”. You can’t change your past or your future (because events that come after the chosen point are already in your past). You can move to an alternate reality.
And now I’ve gone cross eyed.
(And yes, I used the term “home” very deliberately to describe your original “time” line. I think “Far From Home” may have a much different meaning than we previously suspected. Especially with Mysterio being a entity that can alter “reality”.)
Last edited by Abob Teff; 05-05-19 at 10:08 PM.
#689
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Holy shit. I can read this anymore.
They will clear up their logic in future movies. Till then, we are just guessing the writers intentions.
Now that time travel exists in the MCU, future movies can revolve around it. It could easily be the entire basis for Ant Man 3.
They will clear up their logic in future movies. Till then, we are just guessing the writers intentions.
Now that time travel exists in the MCU, future movies can revolve around it. It could easily be the entire basis for Ant Man 3.
#690
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Saw this today after a week of turning off social media to avoid spoilers. My dad couldn’t wait to see it, otherwise I usually wait 3-4 weeks to watch blockbusters.
Packed theater at 945am and I say I got lucky because everyone was respectful and quiet! I was amazed haha
As for the movie, I thought it was good, emotional, and since I LOVE time travel plots, I was super pumped with the storyline. I avoid trailers and commercials, so I had no idea time travel was involved.
And of course the end battle was epic.
The camera panning through the funeral, with the superb music was excellent.
excellent movie experience!
but still to this day, Winter Soldier movie is still my favorite. More realistic action in that movie, which I prefer over fantasy action.
Packed theater at 945am and I say I got lucky because everyone was respectful and quiet! I was amazed haha
As for the movie, I thought it was good, emotional, and since I LOVE time travel plots, I was super pumped with the storyline. I avoid trailers and commercials, so I had no idea time travel was involved.
And of course the end battle was epic.
The camera panning through the funeral, with the superb music was excellent.
excellent movie experience!
but still to this day, Winter Soldier movie is still my favorite. More realistic action in that movie, which I prefer over fantasy action.
#691
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Trying to explain one bit of gobblety-gook with another doesn't work. The simple matter is that the movie makers gave us a time travel plot device that amounts to them trying to have their cake, and eat it too.
It's horseshit drivel to explain (or rather, not explain) it that way.
I really liked the movie. A lot... but there are things I really don't like about it.
One thing I really liked was the wide shot with all the portals open and the returned heroes pouring through.
That's a splash page come to life.
It's horseshit drivel to explain (or rather, not explain) it that way.
I really liked the movie. A lot... but there are things I really don't like about it.
One thing I really liked was the wide shot with all the portals open and the returned heroes pouring through.
That's a splash page come to life.
#692
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
In an alternate reality Thanos never tries to get the stones and works at a gas station. Why would the same events happen or need to happen in multiple realities? .
#693
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
can't remember if I saw this posted here or somewhere else, but it's apropos
Spoiler:
#694
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I haven't read through this whole thread but I have two questions (as a very casual Marvel fan):
1. Was Cap being able to wield Thor's Hammer a reference to anything other than the scene in an earlier movie where he tried to? Is it a comic reference at all?
2. Are all the people who came back now 5 years younger than everyone else?
Fantastic flick, overall. 3 hours went by very quickly.
1. Was Cap being able to wield Thor's Hammer a reference to anything other than the scene in an earlier movie where he tried to? Is it a comic reference at all?
2. Are all the people who came back now 5 years younger than everyone else?
Fantastic flick, overall. 3 hours went by very quickly.
#695
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
A nice take on the plot holes:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Crvsedsgquo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I feel movie logic, especially when it is a super hero movie, only needs to work under a true if remotely plausible standard.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Crvsedsgquo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I feel movie logic, especially when it is a super hero movie, only needs to work under a true if remotely plausible standard.
#696
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Shit... you guys are talking time travel... The Far From Home trailer says the MCU now has a
Go to town on that one...
Spoiler:
#697
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Spoiler:
Last edited by dex14; 05-06-19 at 01:33 PM.
#698
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I haven't read through this whole thread but I have two questions (as a very casual Marvel fan):
1. Was Cap being able to wield Thor's Hammer a reference to anything other than the scene in an earlier movie where he tried to? Is it a comic reference at all?
2. Are all the people who came back now 5 years younger than everyone else?
Fantastic flick, overall. 3 hours went by very quickly.
1. Was Cap being able to wield Thor's Hammer a reference to anything other than the scene in an earlier movie where he tried to? Is it a comic reference at all?
2. Are all the people who came back now 5 years younger than everyone else?
Fantastic flick, overall. 3 hours went by very quickly.
Yes, the "unsnapped" are all 5 years younger than those that remained. And homeless. And have to get used to thinking it is the year 2023. It's a concept that we're expecting to see play out in future MCU movies.
#699
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
And if Far From Home has a
Spoiler:
Last edited by dex14; 05-06-19 at 01:33 PM.
#700
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Those are the nine realms. Just regions/dimensions of our own universe.
Ant-Man and Dr. Strange are the first movies to
Ant-Man and Dr. Strange are the first movies to
Spoiler:
Last edited by dex14; 05-06-19 at 01:34 PM.