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Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Old 05-01-19, 10:57 AM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Can someone help enlighten me on something? How exactly is Falcon supposed to take on the Captain America mantle? Cap is more than just a shield -- he's a super soldier. Sam is not. So to me it's the equivalent of Superman putting his cape on Jimmy Olsen and saying, "OK, now you're Superman." Is there something in the comics that explains just how a non-powered man can take on that mantle? To me, Bucky would have made more sense.
Old 05-01-19, 10:59 AM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I thought that, too. He'll have to approach being Cap in a much different way. I figure the same would be true of

Spoiler:
Blake taking up the mantle of Batman in The Dark Knight Rises.
Old 05-01-19, 11:00 AM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mr. Flix
Can someone help enlighten me on something? How exactly is Falcon supposed to take on the Captain America mantle? Cap is more than just a shield -- he's a super soldier. Sam is not. So to me it's the equivalent of Superman putting his cape on Jimmy Olsen and saying, "OK, now you're Superman." Is there something in the comics that explains just how a non-powered man can take on that mantle? To me, Bucky would have made more sense.
He had powers in the comics, I believe. But not in the movies, obviously. Maybe he'll be enhanced in some way. Could be a point in the upcoming show. The story isn't over.
Old 05-01-19, 11:15 AM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mr. Flix
Can someone help enlighten me on something? How exactly is Falcon supposed to take on the Captain America mantle? Cap is more than just a shield -- he's a super soldier. Sam is not. So to me it's the equivalent of Superman putting his cape on Jimmy Olsen and saying, "OK, now you're Superman." Is there something in the comics that explains just how a non-powered man can take on that mantle? To me, Bucky would have made more sense.
That's not really the equivalent at all, IMO. Falcon was already a hero and a soldier, Jimmy Olsen is neither. It's more like Supes giving his S symbol to Hawkman (or Green Arrow if you want to say Hawkman is too powerful, Hawkman just just the closest DC equivalent to Falcon). Also I know there's stuff in the movies, such as pulling down the helicopter, etc, that would appear to contradict this, but in the comics it is often stressed that Cap doesn't actually have any super powers. The super solider serum just boosted him to the peak of human potential.

So Falcon would just continue being a hero and carry the shield a as a symbol. In the comics when he became Cap, he continued to use his wings, but changed his outfit to a Red/White/Blue color scheme and added the shield to his arsenal.
Old 05-01-19, 12:09 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Abob Teff


But wait a second ... (time travel mumbo jumbo coming up) ...

If Nat traded her soul/life (I’d argue there is a difference, but we won’t go there) for the Soul Stone ... Thanos never could have traded Gamora’s soul/life ... ergo ... she should be here?

Why isn’t anybody doing the Deadpool bitching and complaining about how nothing matters now? (I don’t agree with that argument and I’ve said it before. Just pointing out that some people seem to be handing out free passes in this case.)
The problem isn't that the soul stone was traded for a soul once. You could argue that Captain America returned the soul stone to the same place and the Skull had to set everything up for a second sacrifice. The problem is that Gamora and Thanos from that era jumped to the future and got dusted, so how can they make that sacrifice, and how can the events of Infinity War even happen? I thought for sure Tony was sending them back to their own time, with Gamora refusing but then going back later on down the line in another movie or something to preserve the timeline. But obviously we branched into a different reality already with that happening and with what happened with Cap.

Originally Posted by dex14
He had powers in the comics, I believe. But not in the movies, obviously. Maybe he'll be enhanced in some way. Could be a point in the upcoming show. The story isn't over.
In the comics, when Bucky takes up the mantle, he often comments how difficult it is to be Cap and throw around the shield without super powers (because he has a bionic arm but no super soldier serum). I think because of that he carries a gun with him. So I could see a similar thing with Falcon. In reality, I doubt you could have Bucky be the new Cap... isn't he still an outlaw of sorts?

The only reason A-Force took me out of the movie was because all I could think about was how many people would complain about it.

People complained about Captain Marvel's role but she did a heck of a lot, and there was at least a plausible explanation for her being preoccupied.

I didn't really buy Valkyrie becoming queen of the Asgardians, but I understand why they did it. Asgardians (outside of the main characters) in the cinematic universe are largely chumps anyway, at least so far. So are we not getting a solo Thor film until after GotG3?

Portman didn't film new scenes but she did come in to do some new dialogue, so that's something.

I don't get why people can't suspend disbelief when it comes to the Infinity Stones but we're ok with time travel via Pym Particles after half a day of thought by Ant Man, Hulk, and Iron Man.

I know they're Avengers, and there was a sacrifice needed, and plot reasons, but it was really really stupid to send Hawkeye/Ronin and Black Widow to get the soul stone when they had no idea what was awaiting them there. At least send Rocket in case the ship breaks down or something.

I actually thought it was really bold of them to do the five years later thing, and keep it like that. One, I thought that made for a great red herring and a great opening scene. Two, I thought for sure Tony was going to be forced to choose between his daughter and restoring the timeline to the way it was five years ago (and dying along the way). But they kept the five year gap, which should make things interesting if they choose to delve into it.

Old 05-01-19, 12:15 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I actually thought it was really bold of them to do the five years later thing, and keep it like that. One, I thought that made for a great red herring and a great opening scene.
Yeah, when they killed Thanos, I was like, that's bullshit - Thanos just used his reality stone to confuse them all. But no, they did really kill him.
Old 05-01-19, 12:17 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Well, the complaint was that Infinity War was meaningless because we all knew the snap was going to be reversed. And of course it was, but there are still repurcussions to it besides the heroic sacrifices we all knew were coming.

On person mentioned Secret Invasion, I don't think they can do Secret Invasion with the way they set up the Skrulls in Captain Marvel. They also kind of ruined the Nova Corps, so I'm curious to see what Captain Marvel's cosmic adventures are going to look like and if they will try to approximate Annihilation eventually.
Old 05-01-19, 12:18 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig
I know they're Avengers, and there was a sacrifice needed, and plot reasons, but it was really really stupid to send Hawkeye/Ronin and Black Widow to get the soul stone when they had no idea what was awaiting them there. At least send Rocket in case the ship breaks down or something.
The piece that does bug me about this is they seemed surprised at what the stakes would be. Nebula knows what happened to Gamora there, how did they not have this discussion beforehand?! That actually could make a good scene. We don't trade lives. Except now, we absolutely have to akd there's no way around it. How do we decide? I think that could have been a powerful piece of the puzzle.

I keep noticing little scenes I wish they'd put I to this 3-hour run time. Show me the Ravagers in the battle. Show me weighing the soul stone ramifications. Show me Rocket and Groot hugging. Yeah, I'm starting to wish more had been trimmed so more could be put in to enhance it.
Old 05-01-19, 12:21 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

The Ravagers were in the battle, though? The only reason I know is because of Pratt's video and the stills someone posted earlier, but it seems like they were there. I wonder if the classic Guardians were there too.

Oh, you probably mean more shots of them fighting. I mean, they could have tacked 30 minutes of extra footage onto that battle and I would've been perfectly fine (my bladder wouldn't, though).
Old 05-01-19, 12:27 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I mean, if they're all there, show more than them showing up. Even in a big crossover book everyone gets their two panels beyond the big splash page.

Even Kamikaze gets a couple panels before Archangel accidentally slices him to ribbons in X-Cutioner's Song.
Old 05-01-19, 12:35 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by dex14
He had powers in the comics, I believe. But not in the movies, obviously. Maybe he'll be enhanced in some way. Could be a point in the upcoming show. The story isn't over.
Falcon started using his wings as shields more and more (really noticed it in Civil War). I figured that came from the time working with Captain America and was helping to set up an eventual transfer.
Old 05-01-19, 01:17 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by jpcamb
So I finally got to see this yesterday and have slowly been going thru this thread. My first impression on seeing the movie was that it was damn near perfect. Even after reading through this, I still feel that way. I'm willing to ignore the time travel paradoxes and enjoy the humor of a movie referencing time travel movies it was pretty meta. I know a lot of the end was fan service but it was far from instant gratification.
I know I am coming off as harsh on this movie, but ^THAT is what I am talking about. It isn’t “damn near perfect” when you have to turn around and point out the problems you chose to give a pass to. It is enjoyable, and I am glad that everybody (including myself!) seems to enjoy it. Like The Last Jedi, it is a horribly flawed movie within its own confines, but it provides a lot of worthwhile viewing.

Somewhere in here is a sex analogy ... tons of buildup to losing your virginity doesn’t mean the sex is good. It’s still sex, enjoyable nonetheless, but it doesn’t mean it was good sex just because it finally happened.


Originally Posted by jpcamb
As for the haters on the girl power scene did anyone stop to think how gaga some women are over Peter Parker? My daughter loves him and maybe they were going for a closer look so they happened to be close when he went down
Now THAT is funny!
Old 05-01-19, 01:34 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Abob Teff
Somewhere in here is a sex analogy ... tons of buildup to losing your virginity doesn’t mean the sex is good. It’s still sex, enjoyable nonetheless, but it doesn’t mean it was good sex just because it finally happened.
Plus it hurts a little the first time.
Old 05-01-19, 01:39 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Jabroni
Hawkman just just the closest DC equivalent to Falcon).
Poor Black Condor



Old 05-01-19, 01:59 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mr. Flix
Plus it hurts a little the first time.
Especially if there's a snap.
Old 05-01-19, 04:46 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Robert Downey Jr. Hosted a Lunch for the Marvel Women on Avengers: Endgame Set


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...170554364.html

The lunch echoes the special moment all the ladies have in the film, and features some of the actresses still in character and costume for the epic.
Old 05-01-19, 04:59 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I saw this last night. I really liked it overall. The first and third acts were great. the middle was so so.

Complaints:

It blows my mind that through almost 6 hours of movie between IW and EG they did absolutely NOTHING with Hulk. He didn't have a significant fight scene in IW and did have ANY fight scene in EG. The Incredible Hulk is arguably the most popular Marvel character of all time and he just sat on the bench for 2 movies. I wanted Hulk to be part of the main fight against Thanos with Cap, Thor and Iron Man. There absolutely NEEDED to be a showdown between Hulk and Thanos. They COMPLETELY fucked that up. Also whoever signed off on the BannerHulk thing needs to be fired. Let the Incredible Hulk be the Incredible Hulk.

My only other real complaint. The way they invented time travel was the most poorly written, half assed aspect of any MCU movie I've ever seen. Tony just walked into his office half baked and half buzzed, pressed a couple buttons and VOILA ......TIME TRAVEL the most significant human achievement in the history of planet Earth. It was beyond ridiculous. Luckily I was able to get past it, and even though there were some plotholes with the time travel aspect, I was able to suspend disbelief and fully engage in the rest of the movie.

Hell of an ending though.

4/5
Old 05-01-19, 05:08 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Jason

Once you jettison the usual tropes of time travel, the story makes perfect sense. Several characters even tell us "that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!" When you go to the past, it becomes the present, and events there move forward to the future. That's more or less how the Ancient One explained it to Banner. So Thanos leaving "2014" and dying in 2023 does not cause a paradox. The continuity of time has both 2018 Thanos snapping his fingers and 2014 Thanos being defeated later.
I thought what Ancient One was saying was that time branches into multiple paths with time travel. So if you take the time stone from the Ancient One, it branches a new path where the future of that continuity is screwed because the time stone isn't there. By returning the time stone to moments after it left, you can close that gap somewhat (but probably still alter that timeline). Your timeline will be the same.

That's why they needed the stones to make the change. If they just killed Thanos as a baby, that forks off another reality that's different form ours but doesn't affect our own. But gathering the stones and using them can affect our reality.

This is why it's ok that past Thanos died here, it probably made that fork of reality much better off, and the Thanos of our timeline still did all that stuff. It also means the Loki who got away with the Tessaract isn't "our" Loki either. But it makes absolutely no sense how Cap went into the past and changed our present. That flies into the face of all the other stuff I just said, not to mention the massive temptation he would have to "correct" everything he knew would go down, like saving Bucky and thwarting Hydra's takeover of Peggy's Shield. But I understand from a plot perspective why they did it the way they did.

It also keeps in line with the whole Dr Strange can look into all the future possibilities and deem which one is best thing.
Old 05-01-19, 05:12 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Hazel Motes
I saw this last night. I really liked it overall. The first and third acts were great. the middle was so so.

Complaints:

It blows my mind that through almost 6 hours of movie between IW and EG they did absolutely NOTHING with Hulk. He didn't have a significant fight scene in IW and did have ANY fight scene in EG. The Incredible Hulk is arguably the most popular Marvel character of all time and he just sat on the bench for 2 movies. I wanted Hulk to be part of the main fight against Thanos with Cap, Thor and Iron Man. There absolutely NEEDED to be a showdown between Hulk and Thanos. They COMPLETELY fucked that up. Also whoever signed off on the BannerHulk thing needs to be fired. Let the Incredible Hulk be the Incredible Hulk.

My only other real complaint. The way they invented time travel was the most poorly written, half assed aspect of any MCU movie I've ever seen. Tony just walked into his office half baked and half buzzed, pressed a couple buttons and VOILA ......TIME TRAVEL the most significant human achievement in the history of planet Earth. It was beyond ridiculous. Luckily I was able to get past it, and even though there were some plotholes with the time travel aspect, I was able to suspend disbelief and fully engage in the rest of the movie.

Hell of an ending though.

4/5

I give Tony the pass on inventing time travel there. He used eigenvector equations. He also took some brainstorming cues from Scott Lang.
Old 05-01-19, 05:30 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by tanman
This is my biggest disappointment I think. I really wanted Coulson to be back to let him basically say hey guys I'm still alive. Or at least be in the funeral scene.



That's what I love about that scene is when you watch it again look at Mantis' expression. She's basically like, "I don't know what is going on or why I'm charging with these powerful warrior women but I'm going to do it anyways." It's so subtle and hilarious but also endearing that even though she knows she's not going to make much of a difference she's doing it anyways. Pom is so good at acting with her expressions very subtly.

But this does highlight how IW was better at giving everyone the spotlight as even then Mantis had a major part in the plan to take down Thanos on Titan. This time around not so much.



Agreed, everyone is so wrapped up about the timeline (and yeah I am to I get it and it's part of the fun) But also it just works so well dramatically, sometimes a few concessions in logic are worth it for dramatic effect.
Spoiler:
Unfortunately for Phil, Son of Coul -- his second death was imminent as of the S5 finale of AoS. So he was likely dead by Stark's funeral. Possibly long dead if he wasn't one of the snapped.
Old 05-01-19, 05:42 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig
I thought what Ancient One was saying was that time branches into multiple paths with time travel. So if you take the time stone from the Ancient One, it branches a new path where the future of that continuity is screwed because the time stone isn't there. By returning the time stone to moments after it left, you can close that gap somewhat (but probably still alter that timeline). Your timeline will be the same.
The problem with this is that Cap would have to return to the alternate past, not his own past, in order to return the stones "moments after" they left. By my count, there were at least 5 alternate timelines created within this movie. Can someone please explain to me how Cap is able to return to a specific time in a specific reality amongst a multitude of similar realities?! It would be like taking a Plinko board a mile high and a mile wide, with millions of pegs, dropping a ball from the top and watching it land in a ZERO slot, then presuming to be able to go to one specific peg halfway up the board and change that result to $10,000 by altering the direction the ball takes when it reaches that peg. At the very least, give me 30 seconds of dialog with Dr. Strange or Banner where they say something like "I've adjusted your quantum GPS device to use each stone's vibrational frequency to guide you to the correct timeline." This is what pisses me off so much, it could've been addressed so easily. But we're supposed to hang our hats on the Ancient One saying that we can't change our own past, and that's the end of it. Fine, the MCU-Prime past is intact, but you just totally fucked up multiple alternate timelines. In fact, you might have fucked them up just by returning the stones, because in our timeline, they don't exist anymore, thanks to Thanos. Now that you've eliminated Thanos in at least one of those timelines, the stones will still be around for some other dickwad to use as they see fit.
Old 05-01-19, 05:49 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Shoveler
The problem with this is that Cap would have to return to the alternate past, not his own past, in order to return the stones "moments after" they left. By my count, there were at least 5 alternate timelines created within this movie. Can someone please explain to me how Cap is able to return to a specific time in a specific reality amongst a multitude of similar realities?! It would be like taking a Plinko board a mile high and a mile wide, with millions of pegs, dropping a ball from the top and watching it land in a ZERO slot, then presuming to be able to go to one specific peg halfway up the board and change that result to $10,000 by altering the direction the ball takes when it reaches that peg. At the very least, give me 30 seconds of dialog with Dr. Strange or Banner where they say something like "I've adjusted your quantum GPS device to use each stone's vibrational frequency to guide you to the correct timeline." This is what pisses me off so much, it could've been addressed so easily. But we're supposed to hang our hats on the Ancient One saying that we can't change our own past, and that's the end of it. Fine, the MCU-Prime past is intact, but you just totally fucked up multiple alternate timelines. In fact, you might have fucked them up just by returning the stones, because in our timeline, they don't exist anymore, thanks to Thanos. Now that you've eliminated Thanos in at least one of those timelines, the stones will still be around for some other dickwad to use as they see fit.
That's why I said Cap staying in the past and coming into our present flies in the face of the time travel "logic" they established. It doesn't make sense. He went back in time, changed history, and came into our present timeline, the one he left.

Old 05-01-19, 06:01 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig
That's why I said Cap staying in the past and coming into our present flies in the face of the time travel "logic" they established. It doesn't make sense. He went back in time, changed history, and came into our present timeline, the one he left.
The Russo Brothers have said that he didn't spend his time in "our" timeline, he was in an alternate timeline. So, again, he didn't mess with our history. Just some other schmuck earth's. Not our problem.

https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/ave...ptain-america/
Old 05-01-19, 06:08 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by ultimaton
Spoiler:
Unfortunately for Phil, Son of Coul -- his second death was imminent as of the S5 finale of AoS. So he was likely dead by Stark's funeral. Possibly long dead if he wasn't one of the snapped.
I was really expecting

Spoiler:
the final shot of last season's Agents of SHIELD to be Phil and May standing on the beach, gazing into the sunset, and dust starting to swarm about them.

In fact, at one point they mention "trouble" in New York, and waiting for someone to turn to dust was all I could think of for the rest of the series.
Old 05-01-19, 06:11 PM
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Re: Avengers: Endgame (The Russo Brothers, 2019) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig
I thought what Ancient One was saying was that time branches into multiple paths with time travel. So if you take the time stone from the Ancient One, it branches a new path where the future of that continuity is screwed because the time stone isn't there. By returning the time stone to moments after it left, you can close that gap somewhat (but probably still alter that timeline). Your timeline will be the same.

That's why they needed the stones to make the change. If they just killed Thanos as a baby, that forks off another reality that's different form ours but doesn't affect our own. But gathering the stones and using them can affect our reality.

This is why it's ok that past Thanos died here, it probably made that fork of reality much better off, and the Thanos of our timeline still did all that stuff. It also means the Loki who got away with the Tessaract isn't "our" Loki either. But it makes absolutely no sense how Cap went into the past and changed our present. That flies into the face of all the other stuff I just said, not to mention the massive temptation he would have to "correct" everything he knew would go down, like saving Bucky and thwarting Hydra's takeover of Peggy's Shield. But I understand from a plot perspective why they did it the way they did.

It also keeps in line with the whole Dr Strange can look into all the future possibilities and deem which one is best thing.
The whole thing is getting into "Speedforce, I ain't explaining shit!" territory, but I'm satisfied with how things ended, whether I can logically trace every part of it out or not.

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