Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Wasting an entire movie on Anakin's early childhood was a foolish endeavor in the confines of a trilogy telling the rise of Darth Vader. I say that as someone that probably enjoys The Phantom Menace more than most here.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

:up:

The sad thing is that Star Wars fans with no script writing skills have been able to come up with better ideas for the PT than Lucas did.
Not only was he a child mass murderer but he turned on a fucking dime! He was nothing more than a whiny bitch for the whole movie, then with only slight prompting, he turned into a mass murderer in seconds. Great character development...

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

The 'turn scene' is probably the worst scene in all of the SW movies, simply because it is THE pivotal scene of the PT and the Saga, and it is horribly executed. So Anakin tells Mace that Palpatine is the Sith Lord and then 10 minutes later he pledges himself to kill EVERY Jedi for a chance to learn how to stop people from dying?

The sad thing is that the ROTS Novel is very good and explains Anakin's state of mind much better then the movie. Early in the novel he is fed up with the Jedi as he thinks they are all out of touch because none of them have ever loved as he even comments about Yoda after their talk about letting people go, "What does he know? Who has he ever loved?"

The turn scene in the novel is setup much better as Palpatine has more conversations with Anakin and essentially promises him anything he wants, not just this ridiculous 'stop people from dying' plot point. At one point he tells Anakin to take a pick at whatever he wants, and his wish will be granted, as it just goes better with the narrative instead of this quick turn because of one little blurb about keeping people from dying trick. The PT lived and died by that turn scene and the movie/trilogy just falls like a house of cards after that on top of the millions of problems that came before it.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Anakin had to be flawed, but not a whiny brat.

Think of Luke. Luke wasn't a whiny brat, at least after he got off Tatoonie. Luke only want to do good and help people by learning the Force. And still, Luke failed at the cave in Degobah and nearly fell to the dark side in ROTJ.

That's what makes the Dark Side so scary and powerful, it's seductiveness that can draw in even a good man. However, Lucas actually underminded the power of the Dark Side by telegraphing it so poorly with Anakin, a character that the Jedi Council in Episode 1 recognizes as being too unstable to be a good Jedi. Ooh, the Dark Side managed to take a douche and make him and even bigger douche. So scary.

The Dark Side is supposed to be so powerful and seductive it can turn even the supposed best of us. Think of the One Ring from LOTR, and how even Gandalf and Galadriel were tempted by it. "Understand, I would use this ring to try and do good..."

Now, the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars actually had a good approach to this. While Anakin is trying to take out Sith apprentice Asajj Ventress, it shows him giving into his anger to overpower her. It shows a man trying to do "good," i.e. kill a bad guy, but being seduced by the "quicker, easier" way of the Dark Side. It should be a gradual corruption of a good person, not a heel turn of someone that's already a jerk.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

I think this represents the dichotomy of Lucas's approach to the PT. I remember from interview Lucas was clearly more exited and interested in the political maneuverings and such, but Star Wars is about lightsabers and spaceships, so he almost felt obligated to include them. Trying to wedge in the political stuff while keeping the "adventure serial" structure and pacing was a tonal mismatch.


I maintain that we got TPM in the form we did because of two conflicting desires of Lucas:

• He wanted to show, onscreen, the separation of young Anakin and his mother, which he felt was pivotal to Anakin's eventual turn to the Dark Side
• He wanted to maintain the unwritten rule of no flashbacks in a Star Wars movie

So he needed to write it as an entire film with a young Anakin, which severely restricted the story. A simple flashback could've told all the relevant parts of young Anakin in a much better film. Even if Lucas maintained no flashbacks though, and older Anakin telling Padme in secret of the trauma of being separated from his mother would've made for a compelling scene in a better movie. But Lucas felt he needed to show it, I guess.

Anyway, I don't quite agree with your alternate structure. I think everything after Obi-Wan leaving Anakin to die on Mustafar is coda, and wouldn't work as a full film. Maybe have Episode one be older Anakin meeting both Obi-Wan and Padme, joining the Clone Wars, becoming friends with Anakin and a budding romance with Padme. Then episode 2 has the marriage with Padme near the beginning or halfway point, a more gradual turn to the dark side, ending with Anakin's turn and Code 66. Then Episode 3 is the remaining Jedi fighting for survival, Padme trying to save Anakin, and Obi-Wan confronting him.

Padme dying was Lucas's attempt at dramatic irony, that Anakin was unable to save her even after turning to the dark side explicitly to save her. It didn't work. A coda could've been maybe Padme faking her death and going into hiding with Leia, and agreeing to let Obi Wan take away Luke to reduce the odds Vader would discover both of them.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Had Lucas not resorted to the unbelievably trite twist that Luke and Leia are brother and sister, he could have hinged Luke's temptation of crossing over to the dark side on his jealousy of Leia's affection for Han over him.

The death of his rival would have secured it. Even if the rebellion ended up going down in defeat, Luke still could have gotten Leia with Han out of the way.

That would have been the most relatable, intelligent, and mature way for the Emperor to seduce Luke.

When he makes the sacrifice to reject that gratification of desire, and ultimately triumphs over his evil father and the Emperor- that would have provided a more perfect template for the same dynamic to play out in the prequels. Except that there, the sexual jealousy (real or imagined- but imagined possibly works better) that Anakin feels for Obi-wan with Padme, would have shown what happens when those feelings (that most people can relate to) go unchecked, and the ruination that can ensue.

That's one area that RotJ fubar'ed the "Skywalker saga" already before we even get to the prequels.

But the bigger problem was in choosing to tell the prequel stories from the POV of the main participants.
We already know from the OT what happens to them and where the prequels will have to lead them.
The main characters in the Prequels should have been the supporting characters in someone else's story.
That way you have a story focus that isn't a foregone conclusion and still has the opportunity to surprise, shock, and break your heart, along with some uplifting heroics along the way.

If it were me, Since I'd always (going back to '77) imagined the Jedi as the musketeers, I'd have started Ep 1 in media res, with Obi, Anakin, and a third character all paling around, working as Jedi, and then see political events start to dwarf them as the films progress- along with Anakin falling in love with a woman and then being manipulated (Iago/Othello like) into seeing his best friend as a rival/usurper for her affections- with that third character caught in the middle.

That third "musketeer" is whose POV the prequels would use, and learning his fate- a noble death or Yoda and Obi-wan like exile, would be something that would keep people invested till the end.

That fate could have also pointed the way to story material for Ep VII and beyond.

But I get that fans would much rather have yet more assaults on shield generators and planet destroying stations along with the queasy sentimentality that gives an orphan the feels for a cold blooded, evil bastard he was never even face to face with until the time he cut off his hand.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df5aFatUwAAPxq4.jpg

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

The prequels, for their faults, were pretty straightforward from a story perspective. You can tell someone the events of the movie and it would all make sense. That's something you can't do with The Last Jedi.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

And he could have retroactively mirrored this in the prequels (so it, you know, rhymes) by having Anakin lose Padme to another suitor, driving him to the dark side. And in typical movie twist, Leia would be Padme/some dude's daughter.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Young Anakin on Tatooine with his buddy Jar Jar should have been the animated series.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

The political stuff would have been a lot more relevant if it had focused more on the widening rift between the Jedi and the Senate, and how the Jedi Council's ability to use The Force was diminishing. Lots of wasted potential there.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating..."

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Has there been a well written Star Wars movie outside of Empire?

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

I've never seen AoTC, but I've read descriptions, and the events in that film don't make sense. Anakin kills a bunch of people, and that makes Padme love him? There's some several layers deep conspiracy to produce a clone army, but Obi-wan just waltzes in and gets told everything? And why were they trying to assassinate Padme at the beginning?

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

I believe Padme's death (of a "broken heart," as someone pointed out earlier) was the major trigger in the breaking of Anakin.
Leia probably had some early memories via The Force (just a thought).
Agree, too much time was spent on the little kid.
Can't disagree.
Not bad. :)

DV was the ultimate human monster, a child killer (he approved of destroying entire planets), he had to have a childhood that made it seem possible of his becoming DV in adulthood or the audience wouldn't have bought it.

FWIW, I always thought his redemption in ROTJ was a little hard to swallow. ;)

I wonder if the emphasis on the kid Anakin was something GL did for his own kids?

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Honestly that would have made sense. Instead of wasting an entire film showing young Anakin an animated series probably would have worked just as well. The only thing is that it would have been a prequel to a prequel which sounds even more confusing. :lol: Realistically though that way it could have still shown that aspect of Anakin’s life and as a cartoon it could have been aimed more at kids and at the same time it would have let the movies tell the more important story of the fall of the Jedi and the rise of the Empire and Palpatine/Vader.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Carefully editing the three prequel flicks into one congruent film might result in one solid movie, if done correctly.

Large segments of each are done so poorly that they almost border on self-parody. I sat in the theatre with my jaw hanging open for entire scenes, and I certainly wasn't alone.
I also wasn't alone in thinking that George might possibly be suffering with dementia.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Topher Grace, of That 70s Show, actually did this a few years ago, cutting it down to one 85-minute movie:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/...requel-re-edit

There's a number of other fan edits. I don't know which ones are any good though, if any.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

I can’t imagine condensing three movies into one and the end result producing a final cut that’s any good. There’s good parts to all three films but I don’t think chopping them up would give any more of a coherent plot than what we wound up with. For better or worse what we got is what we got and nothing is changing that unfortunately.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Huh, no shit. I'll have to check out the scene. :thumbsup:

I know about the Phantom Menace 'fan edit', but hoooooo boy; it'd take a helluva lot more than crafty editing to make that lump of cold dog shit watchable.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Agreed.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

https://d3gqasl9vmjfd8.cloudfront.ne...cab2ff585a.png

I have this t-shirt.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Brilliant.


Interesting, but I think that would tend to have audiences identify too much with this third musketeer and too little with Anakin. But either way, interesting and smart.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

Well, it gets easier to do when you consider that any such editing project scraps the entire Attack of the Clones.

There are good to great moments scattered throughout The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith. They just don't hang together very well because Lucas' narrative bit off more than he could chew.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

I'm not sure I can think of any part of Clones that would HAVE to make it into any edit.. I guess you'd have to to include Anakin getting his arm cut off even though it was in an extra shitty lightsaber battle. You'd also have to show the wedding at the end as well as the deployment of the Clone Troopers. That might be it, 3 scenes in the whole movie that matter.

Re: George Lucas comments on his ideas for The Sequel Trilogy
 

The prequels are littered with bad ideas and storytelling, both large and small.

Just as an example, the Jedi are supposed to be these pure heroes, but in TPM, Qui-Gonn and Obi Wan are all too willing to leave behind a bunch of slaves, including Anakin's mom. Instead of all the mumbo jumbo they did with gambling and whatnot, they could've had the Jedi lead some kind of slave revolt to free them and have Shmi inadvertently killed in the process, leading to Anakin holding the Jedi at fault on some level even though their intentions were good.

Yes, I've probably thought about this stuff too much.