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Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Old 05-30-18, 08:03 AM
  #226  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
So Artoo and Threepio are the same as toasters? Those are some heroic, galaxy-saving toasters!
Well, toasters with artificial intelligence built-in, but yes, they are similiar as manufactured tools. The A.I. built-in can make a droid seem like a real person due to a programmed personality and some self-preservation programming also built-in. But ultimately droids are still machines that have a utilitarian purpose that's programmable within them by an owner, loyalty to whom is yet another thing also programmed within them.

The concept that droids are autonomous living beings who are "enslaved" and that a droid would somehow also be programmed to try to free other "enslaved" droids is rather ridiculous. That is like a roomba trying to free other roombas in the world.
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Old 05-30-18, 08:07 AM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Hence why Vader never remembered making and later losing his toaster.
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Old 05-30-18, 08:08 AM
  #228  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by dhmac View Post
That is like a roomba trying to free other roombas in the world.
I'd be first in line for such a movie!
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Old 05-30-18, 09:04 AM
  #229  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Well, I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. I think L3 sounding so much like Captain Fantasia was silly and the whole free the droids story line was a bit silly but I didn't have any of strong reservations about plot points like in TLJ. I had to seperate Harrison Ford from the role but otherwise I wouldn't mind seeing this one again. I dreaded seeing TLJ a second time and found it mildly less annoying on the second viewing and have little if any desire to watch TLJ again now.

I dont know if I will buy the DVD / BR but it was not nearly the train wreck I expected.
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Old 05-30-18, 09:04 AM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by dhmac View Post
Well, toasters with artificial intelligence built-in, but yes, they are similiar as manufactured tools. The A.I. built-in can make a droid seem like a real person due to a programmed personality and some self-preservation programming also built-in. But ultimately droids are still machines that have a utilitarian purpose that's programmable within them by an owner, loyalty to whom is yet another thing also programmed within them.

The concept that droids are autonomous living beings who are "enslaved" and that a droid would somehow also be programmed to try to free other "enslaved" droids is rather ridiculous. That is like a roomba trying to free other roombas in the world.
I realize this is getting into uber nerd territory here, but I disagree. If loyalty was just pre-programmed then they wouldn't need restraining bolts to keep them in line. Also, like I mentioned before you have bots like IG-88 who are pretty autonomous (and I don't think he's a cyborg like Grevious). They are programmed with a personality and they think and function on their own; they also choose loyalty, since R2 basically chose Luke. I don't think it's that far fetched that there would be a droid like L3 out there.
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Old 05-30-18, 01:30 PM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I realize this is getting into uber nerd territory here, but I disagree. If loyalty was just pre-programmed then they wouldn't need restraining bolts to keep them in line. Also, like I mentioned before you have bots like IG-88 who are pretty autonomous (and I don't think he's a cyborg like Grevious). They are programmed with a personality and they think and function on their own; they also choose loyalty, since R2 basically chose Luke. I don't think it's that far fetched that there would be a droid like L3 out there.
Agreed, especially with regards to the restraining bolts. Luke took R2's bolt off because he felt certain he wouldn't "run off" on him. As a kid I always pictured certain droids wanting to flee their owners, or "their captors". Maybe I was just a weird kid.

Last edited by Azor Ahai; 05-30-18 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 05-30-18, 02:33 PM
  #232  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Just like the act of shooting Woody gave us some “origins” into Han, L3’s death did the same for Lando. He couldn’t bear to be close to another droid again, which is why he 100% ignored 3P0 when he introduced himself.
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Old 05-30-18, 02:35 PM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by bluetoast View Post
Just like the act of shooting Woody gave us some “origins” into Han, L3’s death did the same for Lando. He couldn’t bear to be close to another droid again, which is why he 100% ignored 3P0 when he introduced himself.
But then he got the best of both worlds with Lobot...
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Old 05-30-18, 05:19 PM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Smack Talk with Professor Tosspot reviews "Solo"



I really like the Disney bit at the end
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Old 05-30-18, 06:26 PM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I've heard a lot of mixed reactions to the Maul cameo, and the loudest applause is coming from fans of the animated shows, Rebels and Clone Wars. I understand why viewers who are only casual fans of Star Wars would be confused, apathetic or turned off by his appearance. But I felt like it was a nice way for Disney to throw a bone to the hardcore geeks and to give a subtle middle finger to Lucas for quickly killing off one of the prequel trilogy's coolest characters.
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Old 05-30-18, 06:31 PM
  #236  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

As opposed to the not subtle at all middle finger to George Lucas with the "Han shot first" moment?
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Old 05-30-18, 06:35 PM
  #237  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by bluetoast View Post
Just like the act of shooting Woody gave us some “origins” into Han, L3’s death did the same for Lando. He couldn’t bear to be close to another droid again, which is why he 100% ignored 3P0 when he introduced himself.
That and there was very little droid labor on cloud city. He used those Ugnaught guy’s instead.
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Old 05-30-18, 09:55 PM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Just saw the movie. Count me as one who was pleasantly surprised. Enjoyed it more than TLJ and Rogue One combined. Fun movie with a great cast. My only complaint is L3 was annoying and the movie ran just a little long.
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Old 05-30-18, 10:17 PM
  #239  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by funkyryno View Post
I've heard a lot of mixed reactions to the Maul cameo, and the loudest applause is coming from fans of the animated shows, Rebels and Clone Wars. I understand why viewers who are only casual fans of Star Wars would be confused, apathetic or turned off by his appearance. But I felt like it was a nice way for Disney to throw a bone to the hardcore geeks and to give a subtle middle finger to Lucas for quickly killing off one of the prequel trilogy's coolest characters.
I think the biggest problem was it was just a cameo. I felt like the movie was just starting to come together and was setting up the rest of the movie. It felt more like the end of the 2nd Act vs. the end of the movie. It just brought up a whole bunch of intriguing questions, is she working with Darth Maul now? What has he been doing? etc. Then the movie just ends just as it was getting to take shape.
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Old 05-30-18, 10:55 PM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by tanman View Post
I think the biggest problem was it was just a cameo. I felt like the movie was just starting to come together and was setting up the rest of the movie. It felt more like the end of the 2nd Act vs. the end of the movie. It just brought up a whole bunch of intriguing questions, is she working with Darth Maul now? What has he been doing? etc. Then the movie just ends just as it was getting to take shape.
I'm pretty sure that question is answered. We knew all along that Dryden Vos answered to someone higher up in the Crimson Dawn, so it's pretty obvious Qi-ra used Han to get rid of Vos and take his place in the ladder, with Maul saying that they'll work closer together. It's that "hook" thing that people complained the Last Jedi didn't have.

That sets up a whole host of other problems, though, chief being: how can you set up a showdown between Han and Maul when Han famously doesn't even believe in the Force at the time of A New Hope? Or they can just fanboy his eventual defeat of Maul into his famous line:

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
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Old 05-30-18, 11:08 PM
  #241  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I'm pretty sure that question is answered. We knew all along that Dryden Vos answered to someone higher up in the Crimson Dawn, so it's pretty obvious Qi-ra used Han to get rid of Vos and take his place in the ladder, with Maul saying that they'll work closer together. It's that "hook" thing that people complained the Last Jedi didn't have.

That sets up a whole host of other problems, though, chief being: how can you set up a showdown between Han and Maul when Han famously doesn't even believe in the Force at the time of A New Hope? Or they can just fanboy his eventual defeat of Maul into his famous line:
Well that's the problem it suddenly got interesting and then it just ended. It was probably the most intriguing part of the movie. I didn't know if they were making another one and at this point it doesn't seem too likely. So it's a setup with an unlikely conclusion.
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Old 05-30-18, 11:44 PM
  #242  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by dhmac View Post
Well, toasters with artificial intelligence built-in, but yes, they are similiar as manufactured tools. The A.I. built-in can make a droid seem like a real person due to a programmed personality and some self-preservation programming also built-in. But ultimately droids are still machines that have a utilitarian purpose that's programmable within them by an owner, loyalty to whom is yet another thing also programmed within them.

The concept that droids are autonomous living beings who are "enslaved" and that a droid would somehow also be programmed to try to free other "enslaved" droids is rather ridiculous. That is like a roomba trying to free other roombas in the world.
That doesn’t jive at all with the world of Star Wars. In the OT we saw droids get tortured, get scared, get worried about themselves and others and pull off heroic acts at their own peril.

So you can say droids are whatever you want but in Star Wars they are obviously far more complex than toasters and roombas. A roomba wouldn’t get scared if a Wookiee roared at it. It’s silly to call this movie out when every other SW flick has featured droids as real characters with emotions.

Originally Posted by tanman View Post
Well that's the problem it suddenly got interesting and then it just ended. It was probably the most intriguing part of the movie. I didn't know if they were making another one and at this point it doesn't seem too likely. So it's a setup with an unlikely conclusion.
Of course they’ll make another one.
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Old 05-31-18, 10:38 AM
  #243  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by tanman View Post
Well that's the problem it suddenly got interesting and then it just ended. It was probably the most intriguing part of the movie. I didn't know if they were making another one and at this point it doesn't seem too likely. So it's a setup with an unlikely conclusion.
It’s called “leaving them wanting more.” And there will be a sequel.
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Old 05-31-18, 11:14 AM
  #244  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Will this even get to $500 million? Any new estimates? I don't think the second weekend drop should be that big.
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Old 05-31-18, 01:06 PM
  #245  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I'm going back to see it again... and taking my son with me. Throw a few more $$$ at it.
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Old 05-31-18, 01:20 PM
  #246  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mr. Flix View Post
There's a good philosophical discussion to be made: what features must a "being" have before they can truly demand rights? Feelings/emotions? Self-awareness? A will of their own? A soul?

And is the pain, fear, worry, and heroism that we've witness from droids in Star Wars real, or an artificial facsimile of those emotions/acts, per their programming and (maybe) learned behavior?

Personally, if it's an "artificial life," I think there's a strong argument to be made that it can possess all of the above but still not have any rights. A droid's existence came from its creator, and it is therefore up to its creator to set limits on that droid's rights.

I'm not trying to start an argument, and don't misconstrue that I'm making a case for slavery. I'm not. I think the idea of "droid rights" could be a fun discussion. But L3 sure didn't add any nuance to the idea or make a case for it. She was nothing but slogans and a sense of entitlement and is probably a more grating character than Jar Jar.

I think the existence of the restraining bolt, which they referenced, is enough to invoke slavery, since presumably without that they had some form of free will. But you'd probably have a similar issue with the clones, who were created for a single purpose, had personalities and allegiances, but all that was overridden when the masters demanded it.

In this movie, at least, the droids went on to rescue the other slaves (a decision they made entirely on their own), so I don't see why people would have a problem with the concept. I will agree that L3 was annoying, though.
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Old 05-31-18, 01:34 PM
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I think the existence of the restraining bolt, which they referenced, is enough to invoke slavery, since presumably without that they had some form of free will.
Honestly, this all probably boils down to just silly writing.

Why would a droid ever be programmed with a free will, thus necessitating a restraining bolt? And if droids exerting a free will was a common enough issue to require the use of restaining bolts, why not just reprogram them so that they no longer had a free will? We know that memory-wiping isn't an issue, so why not free-will wiping?

If removing free will is unethical, then so are restraining bolts, which invokes slavery, like you said.

I suppose it's possible the droids AREN'T programmed with a free will but became self aware and learned to exert a will of their own, apart from programming. But so what? Seriously. If my fridge became self-aware tomorrow, would that mean it suddenly had rights to be anything other than continuing to serve as my fridge?

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
But you'd probably have a similar issue with the clones, who were created for a single purpose, had personalities and allegiances, but all that was overridden when the masters demanded it.
That's a whole different ball of wax. Clones are living, breathing beings that have been changed/repurposed from what they original were. Taking a living thing and changing it is different from creating an artificial life from scratch.

All that said... it's an interesting discussion. I wish "Solo" had been more nuanced and intelligent in their approach to the idea instead of making L3 the droid equivalent of an SJW on Twitter.
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Old 05-31-18, 05:14 PM
  #248  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Some of the Expanded Universe stuff talked about why Threepio and Artoo were as "humanlike" as they were was because they weren't routinely wiped (as many droids in the SW universe are). So they were allowed to develop a personality - when a machine is as complex as Threepio and Artoo, it makes a certain kind of sense they might start learning and growing.

Something similar happened with IG88. And with the new movies, we've started to see more robots that seem to have been given a chance to "grow" so it seems like it's pretty similar to slavery where if you allow the slaves to learn how to read or work complex machinery and weapons, they might be more able to overthrow you. Hence the restraining bolts - you still get the benefits of a really powerful machine without the ability to decide it doesn't want to work for you anymore.
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Old 05-31-18, 05:28 PM
  #249  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
I don't think the second weekend drop should be that big.
Me neither. I think this will be slow and steady and still do decently until The Incredibles comes out. Ocean's 8 will probably beat it next week, but will still make some bank.
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Old 05-31-18, 10:09 PM
  #250  
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story (Howard, 2018) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I'm pretty sure that question is answered. We knew all along that Dryden Vos answered to someone higher up in the Crimson Dawn, so it's pretty obvious Qi-ra used Han to get rid of Vos and take his place in the ladder, with Maul saying that they'll work closer together. It's that "hook" thing that people complained the Last Jedi didn't have.

That sets up a whole host of other problems, though, chief being: how can you set up a showdown between Han and Maul when Han famously doesn't even believe in the Force at the time of A New Hope? Or they can just fanboy his eventual defeat of Maul into his famous line:
I think you would benefit from watching the two animated series, which are canon, and deal with Maul post TPM.
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