Abob Teff

I haven’t had a chance to watch this again on BluRay or Netflix, but I did turn it on the other night and start to watch it. While the “Poe on hold” scene is tonally awkward, it is funny. Even funnier (according to the captions) is that Poe is saying “General Hugs” instead of General Hux. I don’t know if he actually is, but I heard it that way after seeing that.

Yeah, sue me. I found it funny.

mewmartigan

I don't get the whole hatred for Luke's storyline. I have a hard time seeing where it could have gone based on TFA. Could he have been less cranky? Maybe. Could the end have been him and not a force projection? Maybe but I liked the force projection idea. Anything that doesn't make him a reclusive old hermit though would not be how it was setup in TFA.

If Rey had gone to ask for help and he said, "sure let's train, thank you so much for returning my lightsaber", then that would go against him going into hiding for 15 or 20 years. If he was going to be so keen to help when Rey arrived, he should have come back long ago instead of making himself "hard" to find.


And yeah, I though Poe's call in the beginning to General Hugs was funny. That is why Hux emphasizes the "X" when he first responds. As others said, his snark was no different here than it was in TFA "who talks first? you talk first? I talk first?"

MBoyd

I didnt even catch “Hugs” until i had the CC running on Netflix!

Jay G.

I wouldn't call it a deconstruction so much as a progression. A deconstruction, to me, would be something that said "you know that Luke from the first 3 films? Yeah, he's not the good guy you thought he was." Except that's not what TLJ did. That young man Luke is unchanged, he's always going to be that Luke in the first 3 movies. Instead, TLJ takes that character and looks at where that character would go after 30 years, years where he became a legend, possibly bought into the legend, and faced a colossal failure. It's an evolution of that original character, not a deconstruction.

Well, first off, absolutely nothing is going to sit well with all the fans. TFA was like the ultimate in pandering to OT fanboys, and some fans ended up not liking it because it was too much of a rehash. Trying to please everyone is a fool's errand.

However, while I think they understood that the Luke that we're introduced to in TLJ would be potentially upsetting, they may have thought that the character arc of Luke in TLJ where he ultimately decides to become the Jedi many fans wanted him to be, squaring off with Kylo and cleverly saving the Resistance, would send Luke off with a high note that would satisfy many fans. They likely didn't expect to win everyone over, but I don't think they could've anticipated the level of vitriol an apparently very small group of fans have towards that portrayal.

But personally, I'd rather they take risks like that than just play it safe with characters and story. TFA was fine, but I didn't need a repeat of the whole OT, and I didn't need the OT characters to be the focus, playing my idealized versions of those characters 30 years on. I wanted a compelling story, and TLJ delivered.

Jay G.

It's not as clear as you think. First off, the film did only 68% of the box office, and home video revenue is closely tied to box office revenue, so it's not really a surprise it performed less.

For another, there's been a shift to digital, which has affected disc sales. Even then, it's still outpacing Rouge One in disc sales, which means it's doing even better in digital sales than RO:
http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/20...blu-ray-sales/

Finally, when TFA was released, the Disney/Netflix streaming deal wasn't in place. I suspect a good number of people held off buying a copy of TLJ because they planned to watch/rewatch when it hit the most popular streaming service:
https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/23/1...sive-september

So no, it's not "clear" that the dip in sales is due to dissenters being anything other than a vocal minority.

Mike86

I think regarding Luke that for me his arc would have played out better had he been reluctant to join up with Rey and the Resistance as is what happened, but when he showed up at the end to face Kylo and the First Order to have actually had him there for real. The projection thing I’m iffy on and I think they could have not had him die until maybe Episode IX in a more heroic fashion. I was fine with how he was handled as far as being the haggard old version of the character who was off on his own after deeming himself a failure for Kylo but I dunno the end of his arc is disappointing. Of course he’ll be back as a Force Ghost but still it’s not going to be the same.

Jay G.

See, I found the projection clever. It explains how he was able to just shrug off that massive barrage from the walkers, and it serves as a final schooling of Kylo, who was so obsessed with defeating his former master he didn't even notice it was a projection.

GoldenJCJ

In a similar way to what Kyle did with the blaster laser at the beginning of THe Force Awakens, I would have liked to see Luke actually appear in front of Kyle and the walkers. I think it would have been amazing to see all the walkers fire on Luke with everything they had and then once the dust settles, we see Luke holding up thousands of lasers in midair only to turn them back on the walkers and destroying them with their own laser blasts.

Mike86

I think for me I’d not have minded it so much if that wasn’t what ultimately led to his demise. It was kinda clever but the fact that it took so much out of him and led to his death just seemed a bit anti-climactic and wasn’t how I’d have expected Luke to go out.

DaveyJoe

Sounds like the Matrix, and makes Luke too powerful to really be interesting.

Franchot

I, too, was trying to determine why Luke would become a recluse after seeing TFA. Before seeing TLJ, I theorized that Luke went into seclusion because of losing Kylo Ren to the Dark Side and also realizing that Snoke was far too powerful to take on immediately. (More backstory about Snoke would have helped since he was touted to be so damn powerful.) Luke went into hiding due to fearing that Snoke was so powerful that he could possibly turn Luke to the Dark Side after seeing what he had to done to Kylo Ren.

Perhaps, Luke needed to study the Jedi texts for years looking for a way to defeat Snoke, Kylo Ren, and the Knights of Ren. When Rey showed up at the end of TFA he recognized in her that an ally had arrived who was powerful enough to take on Snoke and the Knights of Ren, and that Rey was someone who could possibly bring Kylo back the Light Side. Luke would have to train her, of course, but the two them together could possibly be triumphant.

Of course, Snoke turned out to be a paper tiger and Luke turned out to be a grumpy old man who wanted to be left alone.

mcnabb

I also had no problem with the Force Projection as it was the ultimate schooling of his apprentice (which goes to the ending where he should have been obsessed with following the Resistance instead of Luke as he let his emotion take over). I was one of the few who even had no problem with his death at the end as I would rather him go out on his terms then some punk way like Mace Windu in a huge fight with Snoke or Kylo Ren.

I'm not keen on him having a huge part as a Force Ghost in Episode 9 as it should be Obiwan-like from ROTJ where he gets a big scene with Rey before she goes on her final journey in the movie and that's it (possibly explaining her true heritage). The worst thing they could do is play to the fans and have him interject throughout the movie. I do believe the ultimate ending for Episode 9 is Rey sees Luke as a Force Ghost and he gives her a wink to sort of link the OT and ST as I think that would satisfy all of the fans. (Well, not all the fans! )

Mike86

I think I wanted more of Luke. Not just we spend some time with him and he dies. I think the focal character of the Original Trilogy deserved a bit more. Like I said I hoped we’d see him with Rey and the Resistance for real and then had him do more in Episode IX. I’m not sure how I’d have had him die, but I just feel like it could have been better somehow.

mcnabb

I was surprised we got as much as the OT characters in TFA and TLJ, because I really thought they were going to be pure cameo roles in Episode 7. I remember seeing an interview with Carrie Fisher at Celebration 2014 or 2015 when they announced the cast and she made it sound like they were playing very small roles. I remember using the word 'legacy' and she said that all they are was to pass the torch and not be prevailent in the movies compared to the new cast. That is why I was sort of shocked in TFA when Luke Skywalker shows up in the Opening Crawl and Han Solo plays a major role in the movie as then I realized the OT characters were playing a bigger part then advertised.

Mike86

I expected smaller parts for Han and Leia. I sort of thought Luke would be the legacy character and have a bigger role throughout. I was surprised to get as much Han as we did since Ford never seemed to want to come back but I think what he did worked out well. Leia has about the role I expected, she’s in enough but not a huge role. I felt like Luke was going to be the anchor character throughout at least Episodes VIII and IX.

mcnabb

When that first teaser came out around Thanksgiving 2014 and it showed no OT characters, I really thought that was their way of saying, "This is about the new characters, so don't get this idea it's the continuing story of Han, Luke and Leia...." I'm still in shock at how much they used Han, Luke and Leia in the ST as I really expected a fan service cameo in Episode 7 to make everyone happy and then the story goes full bore with the new characters. Then again, maybe I was just interpreting the quotes and the first teaser totally wrong.

Mike86

I guess I always figured there would be involvement from the big three. I mean from the get go it seemed like The Force Awakens would largely play out like it did and involve a search for Luke. I imagined Han and Leia would be helping look for him and then once he was found their roles would be reduced in the sequels and Luke would be more of a focal point in VIII and IX.

fujishig

I think so too. At first you think that man, Luke has just grown so much in the Force that he can just shrug off At At blasts like nothing (which Kylo assumed as well), and then you see the reason. It goes back to the expectation of the audience as explained by Luke earlier, that he would just come in with his laser sword and save the day. He saved the day but in a different way.

As a fanboy, I'd have loved to see badass Luke. But I realize why storytelling wise that's not the greatest idea.

Plus, in a weird way it still adheres to the timeline order of the sequels, where Obi Won is like this awesome hero in the prequels, then he goes into hiding, does jack squat, and lets himself die to motivate Luke somehow. I imagine someone who watched the movies for the first time in that order would be kind of ticked.

Also, I feel like the overarcing theme of the entire series is that the Jedi are just really really stupid, and Luke kind of says the same thing.

mcnabb

I think they should have played the ST Theme as a 'Skywalker' problem instead of a Jedi Problem. People forget what Obiwan said in ANH, "For a thousand generations, the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice before the dark time....." So The Jedi were clearly established for thousand of generations, not just something that was 100-200 years old, so they had a pretty good run.

I would have approached it that Luke was scared about the Skywalker blood and that is why he hid Rey (his daughter) in fear of another generation of Skywalkers terrorizing the Galaxy after his nephew Ben succumbed to the darkside. And when Rey shows up, he would be torn on whether to tell her and whether to train her in fear of losing of another Skywalker turning to the darkside. That would have made sense as to why he went into hibernation because it's HIS bloodline that is causing all of this anarchy in the galaxy, and if he is by himself on some stranded island, he can't have anymore kids, nor he can't train anymore Skywalkers.

This is just off the top of my head, as I'm sure it could be developed better.

milo bloom

While I can appreciate and enjoy Luke using Force-Skype to prank call his nephew, I think I would have enjoyed it more if we had seen Luke use some actual combat skills. Like he goes up against a chunk of the First Order, but then finds out Kylo has found a hidden base where Leia is so Luke realizes he needs to think outside the box and then does the Force-projection trick.

And I still want Rey to be a Skywalker in some way. This saga is about this family; at some point, they need to find the right path and having Rey learn to be a "grey" Jedi or something, would be a good way to evolve the series.

Brack

I never wrote “all fans”. Otherwise I’d be including myself.

And people keep saying “divisive”, sure, but by how much, 50/50, 60/40, 95/5 for for/against, and vice versa? Unless you can come up with some factual statistics, it’s not “clearly” anything.

Michael Corvin

He's a Jedi MASTER now. He used brains over brawn and it was cool as hell.

GoldenJCJ

Eh, perhaps. But this is literally 5 minutes before Luke dies. Does it matter that we see him too powerful? It’s not like we’re going to watch God-powered Luke for the next two movies.

Jay G.

I think an issue is that if he was really there, on the front lines providing a distraction, how does he get away at the end? Because if he was really there and exhausted all his force powers repelling the blasts, he'd get cut down by Kylo, giving Kylo the satisfaction of killing his former master, instead of leaving Kylo extremely frustrated and angry when the force projection fades. Luke worked smarter, not harder.

Ranger

I have this feeling Plutt lied to Rey about her parents and Kylo just repeated what Plutt told her.