melasnus

It's a common tactic during arguments on internet movie forums.
If that's the best counter someone has then you know you've won the point.

Franchot

Yes! I'm on the same page with your thoughts as to how Star Wars unfolded.

I never thought that Obi Wan and Yoda gave up the fight and ran away from the war with their tails between their legs. They knew they were outmatched and had to stay underground and pick and choose their battles. They figured their guidance alive was more important than blowing it in a suicide run.

But now with these Force Ghosts being able to interact with the physical world more and more, it's turning into Clash of the Titans-- which is not a good thing IMHO.

Tom Banjo

Sorry if this was posted already. I’ve tried to keep up with this massive thread and haven’t seen it here. Someone added TLJ footage to the ending of TFA. Pretty hilarious when edited this way:
https://streamable.com/98lqi

coli

That would have blew up the internet in December 2015!

candyrocket786

FUCKING brilliant.

fumanstan

Josh-da-man

Edited together, it looks even more ridiculous than I thought it would.

Johnson's movie was so consistently shitty and wrong-headed that it's passive aggressive.

Supermallet

That was awesome! I wish TFA had ended like that.

Thank goodness Johnson breathed some new life into the series.

Draven

Agreed! That would have been an even better ending to TFA. A great “twist” and the speculation would have been off the charts.

dex14

As much as I didn’t like TLJ, had TFA ended like that, I think that would’ve been crazy awesome. A great cliffhanger. Much more effective in that context than as the gag that it was.

Dr. DVD

That was something that I liked and hated about the PT. I read the novelizations of all three and from those one would be under the impression the were going to get another great SW movie. ROTS was worlds better than what was on screen, and if one had read Labyrinth of Evil beforehand Anakin's betrayal of the Jedi and Obi-Wan was much more powerful. Dark Lord was a pretty good look at the early days of Vader as well. Hell, a lot of what is now "Legends" made more sense than what we have now.

That said, having re-watched some of TLJ, I agree it has issues, but still only with sloppy storytelling and out of place comedy (for a SW movie it doesn't fit) . I feel the overall arc of characters makes sense and really do like the underlying message of the movie, especially in times like these. Yep, I'm a liberal, don't hold that against me .

gryffinmaster

Absolutely.

How immensely boring (and nonsensical) would it have been had Luke grabbed the lightsaber and gotten all juiced up on heroism after he had "vanished" to this island?

mcnabb

I’m confused on this sentiment that he breathed new life in the series?

Are you talking about the 9 part Saga (Specifically Episode 9) or the franchise down the road? Because I see them as 2 different things.

Supermallet

I’m thinking more of the direction things seemed to be going, with the over the top OT worship of TFA and Rogue One.

mcnabb

I can’t argue with that point even if I disagree. Which sort of goes to my larger point I mentioned earlier in this thread (or maybe in the TFA thread) they should have gone in a different direction from day one and not brought back the OT characters.

If you make Episode 7 or a new Trilogy with Rey, Kylo, Poe, BB8, Finn and they have no connection to the OT, then I think most fans would have been on board because these characters resonated (unlike the PT characters).

They wouldn’t be hamstrung in this storytelling of constantly trying to jive with the OT and they would have the freedom to tell their own story without many of these rules fans get hung up on.

Yes there would be some older fans who would have never gotten on board without Han, Luke and Leia but that was all short term box office thinking.

All we are talking about is Luke’s arc, Flying Leia, Yoda’s Force Ghost Powers and it has overshadowed the Trilogy as Rey and Kylo Ren should be the main conversation.

melasnus

Agreed.

The story for Episode 7 was a lot of low hanging fruit.
It had, essentially, written itself long ago.
Unfortunately, Disney complicated things and it didn't work.

All that was necessary was to give the OT a final send-off with a concluding movie.
That's all long time fans have been asking for.

The new characters you mentioned could have been introduced as minor players...paving the way for full blown headlining roles in Ep.8 and beyond.

It was just too easy to get all of this right.
It is one of those instances of can't see the forest for the trees by a major corporation.
The bottom line is Disney simply didn't understand SW and didn't take the time to educate themselves on their new purchase.

Supermallet

I suspect that it was the filmmakers who wanted the OT characters around as long as possible. Why wouldn’t they want to play in that sandbox with those characters?

Brack

And I doubt there would have been much excitement if none of the OT cast was in TFA. The hype around it was that the big three from the OT were in it. It’s pretty much why TFA was as big as it was.

maxfisher

As a kid, I saw the OT dozens and dozens of times. I read the novels and comics. I had the toys. I painstakingly assembled, painted and staged models in my room. I spent many hours playing the snes ‘super’ series of games and Rebel Assault and X-wing on my dad’s pc. In middle school and high school, I made a necklace out of a Yoda figure on a string, resulting in a school-wide nickname with Jedi in it. I went to midnight releases for all the special editions and prequels, saw them multiple times theatrically and bought them on multiple formats, despite being increasingly disappointed in them. Today, as a 40-year-old man, I’ve adorned my home theater with, among paraphernalia from other films and video games, a The Empire Strikes Back poster, life-size wall hanging of Han Solo frozen in carbonite, wearable Darth Vader mask, 3’ tall Vader figure, 3’ tall R2D2 trashcan, miniature talking Yoda, Lego Stormtrooper clock and an inbox OT Leia doll reissue from when the special editions were released. My 3-year-old son can name damn near every character from the OT just from the books I read to him and one of his big surprises for his recent birthday was getting to watch Star Wars for the first time in our home theater. And it was awesome to see him react to seeing the characters he knows for the first time on screen.

While none of the new movies are perfect, I enjoy the hell out of all of them and think they’ve all been worthy additions that I’ll probably be revisiting for decades, certainly moreso than the PT. It’s fine to not like them and to share why you don’t, but people saying or insinuating the new movies somehow don’t get what makes Star Wars special or aren’t liked by true fans is ridiculous.

lopper

I watched the making of documentary today. I thought it was great.

But it really magnified what a waste the whole casino was. I love this movie, I really do, but Canto Bight is indefensible. And this documentary gives you a real good look at all the aliens and creatures in the casino, the vast majority of which the viewer never sees. There were some neat designs there, and they really fucked it up whizzing the viewer through this location so they could hurry to the horse-dog chase.

Since I'm sure the majority of the posts before and after this one are salty tarts whining about how bad this movie is, I'll go ahead and show my self out. See you in May for Solo!

RoboDad

No, that is what is commonly referred to as "expressing one's opinion." You may agree or disagree with that opinion, and that is fine. But calling someone else's opinion ridiculous, simply because it differs from yours? Now that is truly ridiculous.

Josh-da-man

It's weird, because I hated so many things about TLJ, but I didn't really mind Canto Bight in theory. The concept, a casino where the galaxy's 1% hang out, isn't bad. But in the movie it was a wasted excursion.

That, and it was less of a grotesque Boschian nightmare than the Vanity Fair photos promised it would be.

brayzie

I think that's being either overly optimistic or downright naive.
They kept the OT characters around just long enough to keep the old SW fans coming back.
TFA was the Han movie in a way. He gets a big send off. You HAVE to see the death of Han Solo.
TLJ was the Luke movie. He gets a big send off. You HAVE to see the death of Luke Skywaker.
I'd imagine that Leia would have played a big part in the next installment had Carrie Fisher not died.
Star Wars is a business, not an artistic endeavor these days. In fact, it was more business by the time of what, ROTJ? Earlier? Supposedly the story was altered so Han DIDN'T die so they could sell more action figures?

melasnus

Harrison Ford made it clear early on he would come back for one more film IF Han Solo was killed off.
As it turned out, Carrie Fisher was scheduled for at least 3 more films and Mark Hamill made 2.
But I don't think there was a lot of enthusiasm from the Big 3 to do anymore...or at least until Disney dangled some serious $$$ in front of them.
Agreed.

brayzie

I guess I'm not in tune with my generation of SW fans.
I never thought or imagined that there needed to be a send off for Luke and co. I mean, I imagined that Han and Leia got together and had a family, but that was it.
Maybe had they went with the original ROTJ of Luke having a twin sister on other side of the galaxy but they didn't.
The rebellion won. The Emperor was dead, and presumably the Empire with him.
Any story after would have felt like


Once the original cast got really old, it was over, for me at least.
IF, if they were to continue the story, immediately after the original trilogy ended, I'd imagine that Han, after the events of ROTJ would have had some some kind of adventures, Luke too, Leia would become trained in the says of the Force and have her own adventures, maybe even eclipsing Luke's accomplishments.
But the original actors got old, and since we can't tell stories that never happened so-to-speak, we find out Han went back to doing the same shit he did at the beginning of A New Hope, smuggling. Really? Even wearing the same clothes???
Luke? Had a Jedi school for a little while and then chilled on an island doing jack shit.
Leia? Bad ass Jedi in the mean time?
No, just doing the same shit like before, rallying the rebellion/resistance/revolution/whatever.
From what little I read about the Expanded Universe, clone Palpatine and the Yuuzhan Vong sounds lame. I don't even WANT to read about that.
But having Death Star 3.0, Darth Vader 2.0, Rebellion vs the Empire redux, etc, is equally lame.
TFA and TLJ feels like Ghotsbusters II.


No, they educated themselves pretty well, or well enough.
They realized that the PT was bullshit, filming mostly on green screen was bullshit, and made the public know GEORGE LUCAS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FORCE AWAKENS!
Disney has made some very competent Star Wars films. They're not great, they don't reach the heights of TESB, they don't take risks, but they're better than the prequels.