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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Old 12-15-17, 11:28 AM
  #126  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by rocket1312 View Post
Just for the record, there is plenty of OT retreading in TLJ. Plenty. I don't see anyone saying otherwise. And as far as people complaining that it's going in different and unexpected directions, those different and unexpected directions should be organic to and in service of the story. Putting aside the fact that I don't really believe this movie did anything particularly outside the box, where exactly are the characters at the end of this? What has changed for Rey and Kylo Ren by the time the credits have rolled? By far the most interesting aspect of TLJ was the relationship between those two and just when you thought they were really going to turn the tables on the good/bad/light/dark dynamic, the whole thing just went back to the status quo by the end.
Not nearly to the extent as The Force Awakens. There are similar beats but the storyline is handled uniquely that it’s not really like the other films. As far as things that have changed, I think for Kylo he’s past the point of redemption and basically put himself in charge by taking out Snoke. Rey I feel has more of an understanding of her place as far as how she fits in with the Force and the path she wants to take. I also think we got a decent amount of development from a character like Poe who didn’t do much in the last film and feels more important here.

Last edited by Mike86; 12-15-17 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 12-15-17, 11:32 AM
  #127  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Where The Force Awakens was criticized for retreading the Original Trilogy it seems like a lot of the complaints about the new film stem from it going in different and unexpected directions.
Different and unexpecting directions?

Recycling ESB/ROTJ scenes/music?

Killing Luke Skywalker is neither.

Killing off newly introduced characters from TFA. Why introduce them in the first place? Seems like there was no point to Snoke. Ben turning into Kylo could've been just as believable simply because it's the Skywalker curse and he could've been recruited by the First Order or simply ruled under his Knights of Ren faction.

Rey Nobody... once again pointless. If that was the plan all along, then why go through the trouble with TFA details? Just to mislead the audience that's she's some how OT related?
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Old 12-15-17, 11:36 AM
  #128  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I gave it 3 stars but really it is no where near that. But I did not like it all. I really like TFA, and have seen it multiple times, but like the prequels I may never watch this again

I thought the tone was horrible. I love humor in movies when it is organic but in this it just seemed so artificial and out of place.

The dialogue was just abysmal. I think some of it was done intentionally sort of as a nudge nudge wink wink thing to emphasize how "bad" the bad guys were but the dialogue was just awful throughout.

It has a seriously stupid plot if you even remotely think about it.

I hated what they did with Luke's character. None of it fit what he was. The spoiled ending was just dumb.

I HATED the Snoke confrontation screen, First of all it LOOKED like a set. It was staged like an artsy play with all the carefully posed characters at the edges of the screen. Plus it was no more than a pale copy of the ROTJ scene was infinitely better

The space battles were boring.

The whole "get a master hacker" subplot was totally useless.

There were at least 5, probably 10 really lame Deus Ex Machina events in the movie.

It was over long by a LOT. I usually want movies to last as long as possible but this was a complete chore to sit through. It just seemed not only endless but the whole plot seemed irrelevant. But worse than that scenes were clearly missing making the experience disjointed.

I am not a Star Wars purist and applaud them for shaking things up but this didnt work for me.

The voice of the movie and ways the characters were handled were wrong. If this is the forward for Star Wars I am not very excited about the future.

I have no interest in seeing this again.
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Old 12-15-17, 11:40 AM
  #129  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

The Snoke set was supposed to look like a stage. Johnson has even stated he considered putting red curtains in the background. That's the primary reason I thought something else was up with Snoke's death.
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Old 12-15-17, 11:44 AM
  #130  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by DthRdrX View Post
The Snoke set was supposed to look like a stage. Johnson has even stated he considered putting red curtains in the background. That's the primary reason I thought something else was up with Snoke's death.
Well it did. Why? What was the reasoning behind it?
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Old 12-15-17, 11:46 AM
  #131  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by candyrocket786 View Post
Different and unexpecting directions?

Recycling ESB/ROTJ scenes/music?
What scenes were really recycled? The closest things I can think of are the training sequences with Luke and Rey and even that plays out pretty differently than Luke and Yoda.

Killing Luke Skywalker is neither.
How many people expected that going in? Most of the predictions prior to this film seemed to be people believing Luke would lead the fight against Kylo and the First Order.

Killing off newly introduced characters from TFA. Why introduce them in the first place? Seems like there was no point to Snoke. Ben turning into Kylo could've been just as believable simply because it's the Skywalker curse and he could've been recruited by the First Order or simply ruled under his Knights of Ren faction.
Snoke I do agree with but I also think it was better to off him here than keep him going. Also I think it helps Kylo’s full turn by killing him.

Rey Nobody... once again pointless. If that was the plan all along, then why go through the trouble with TFA details? Just to mislead the audience that's she's some how OT related?
I think that’s a clear misdirect. Kylo thought Rey was weak enough in that moment that he could turn her.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:01 PM
  #132  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
My point wasn’t really about that though. People were saying how this trilogy doesn’t feel planned out and I was just pointing out how the prequels which at least had more to work with because they were filling in the gaps weren’t very good.
What I was referring to in quoting the other poster was how one director seemingly had ideas on where things were to go by laying seeds and the next director didn't follow through or didn't care.

If we have to wait ANOTHER film for a reveal about Rey, then so be it. But is poor storytelling for the audience.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:01 PM
  #133  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
What scenes were really recycled? The closest things I can think of are the training sequences with Luke and Rey and even that plays out pretty differently than Luke and Yoda.
The Battle of Crait was basically the Battle of Hoth
- ATATs - Checked
- Resistance/Rebel soldiers in a Trench- Checked
- White, snowy planet-Checked (it's SALT this time)

I think the only difference was the perspective of the action was changed. ESB was Left to Right. TLJ was Right to Left. (Yes, I'm a complete asshole about this type of stuff )

Falcon's Escape through Crait was basically the same as ROTJ's run/escape on the Death Star II complete with the same music.

Snokes Throne Room Showdown. Do I even need to explain it?



The Ach-to training stuff was actually pretty different.

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Snoke I do agree with but I also think it was better to off him here than keep him going. Also I think it helps Kylo’s full turn by killing him.
I thought killing his father in TFA would've completed his turn. Guess not.

Last edited by candyrocket786; 12-15-17 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:05 PM
  #134  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Old 12-15-17, 12:17 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Old 12-15-17, 12:17 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I liked every with Luke, Leia, Rey and Kylo. Finn/Rose storyline was crammed/wasted. Benicio = Meh. I liked that Rey is a nobody, but hated the way it was revealed. I figured they could do a flashback or something better than Kylo dismissing it. Things happened in someways way too slow, and others too fast. Liked that Snoke is gone. Don't need it to mirror the OT anymore than it does...

Better than Rogue One, not as good as TFA. In the middle of all of them.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:18 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Wow, guy I work with has been excited to see this for months and was all giddy that he was going Thursday night...jump to Friday morning... He hated it. I thought I was being punk'd when he told me that. He said he left the theater pissed off.

Then I come here and see the luke warm(no pun intended) and negative reviews and it makes me think I can wait til this hits Red Box.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:24 PM
  #138  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by candyrocket786 View Post
The Battle of Crait was basically the Battle of Hoth
- ATATs - Checked
- Resistance/Rebel soldiers in a Trench- Checked
- White, snowy planet-Checked (it's SALT this time)

I think the only difference was the perspective of the action was changed. ESB was Left to Right. TLJ was Right to Left. (Yes, I'm a complete asshole about this type of stuff )

Falcon's Escape through Crait was basically the same as ROTJ's run/escape on the Death Star II complete with the same music.

Snokes Throne Room Showdown. Do I even need to explain it?



The Ach-to training stuff was actually pretty different.
Honestly while I can see some similarities those are kind of reaching for things to nitpick in my opinion. How much more can you really do and not have some similarities? The events still play out differently and aren’t carbon copies or something. Fans of this franchise are far too finicky about what they want.

I thought killing his father in TFA would've completed his turn. Guess not.
I think he was still conflicted when he killed Han. He was still having hesitation when it came to trying to kill Leia. I think after killing Snoke he views himself as the master and he expected to take on Rey as his apprentice.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:24 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by candyrocket786 View Post
The Battle of Crait was basically the Battle of Hoth
- ATATs - Checked
- Resistance/Rebel soldiers in a Trench- Checked
- White, snowy planet-Checked (it's SALT this time)

I think the only difference was the perspective of the action was changed. ESB was Left to Right. TLJ was Right to Left. (Yes, I'm a complete asshole about this type of stuff )

Falcon's Escape through Crait was basically the same as ROTJ's run/escape on the Death Star II complete with the same music.

Snokes Throne Room Showdown. Do I even need to explain it?



The Ach-to training stuff was actually pretty different.



I thought killing his father in TFA would've completed his turn. Guess not.
Wasn't the music during the Falcon chase the asteroid music from ESB?

You're forgetting the scary cave of revelations on Ach-to. And Yoda dropping a wisdom bomb on a petulant Luke. And our heroes being double crossed by a roguish, but seemingly lovable new character. And the very setup of the movie which is the bad guys forcing the good guys to evacuate their base and chasing them down with star destroyers.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:30 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Honestly while I can see some similarities those are kind of reaching for things to nitpick in my opinion. How much more can you really do and not have some similarities? The events still play out differently and aren’t carbon copies or something. Fans of this franchise are far too finicky about what they want.
Ok, now you're just being purposefully obtuse. YMMV on whether or not this stuff bothers you (obviously it doesn't), but you honestly can't envision any scenario where they made this movie without a speeder/walker battle on a snow, sorry salt, planet while the Millennium Falcon flies through canyons, evading tie fighters with the music from the old movie where the exact same thing happens?
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Old 12-15-17, 12:47 PM
  #141  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

It doesn’t bother me. Again similarities don’t mean they’re exact copies. So there are some things we’ve seen before that resemble what’s happens in this film. End of the world I guess because we all know that a Star Wars film isn’t going to feature some familiar tropes right? Seriously this isn’t high art stuff here. This is the eighth entry in a forty year old franchise.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:57 PM
  #142  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by candyrocket786 View Post
Snokes Throne Room Showdown. Do I even need to explain it?
Honestly this is pretty different to the throne room scene in Return of the Jedi. The people in the room are basically the same but the way the scene plays out is entirely different. Kylo and Rey aren’t battling for one thing. The only battle that takes place is between Rey and Kylo versus the guards. The apprentice kills his master but for an entirely different reason. Kylo isn’t redeemed and instead in my opinion makes his full turn.
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Old 12-15-17, 12:59 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I wonder if there are any good Super Leia memes yet, that shit was fucking retarded.
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Old 12-15-17, 01:01 PM
  #144  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

For the level of detailed deconstruction shown for this movie, you would think it's a Star Trek movie.
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Old 12-15-17, 01:03 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
Wow, guy I work with has been excited to see this for months and was all giddy that he was going Thursday night...jump to Friday morning... He hated it. I thought I was being punk'd when he told me that. He said he left the theater pissed off.

Then I come here and see the luke warm(no pun intended) and negative reviews and it makes me think I can wait til this hits Red Box.
Da fuc?

I thought Red Boxes were dead. Do they still have those things at McDonalds?
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Old 12-15-17, 01:07 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I am also on the camp of who gives a shit about Snoke’s backstory, I didn’t care knowing where the Emperor came from when he briefly showed up in ESB and was the main baddie in RotJ, I just accepted he was a bad guy and moved on.

I think this point was brought up during TFA, but Kylo is what Anakin should have been in the prequels. I am really enjoying that character.
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Old 12-15-17, 01:18 PM
  #147  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Yeah if anything learning more about Palpatine ruined the character. Same with Vader. The mystique was why they were interesting in the Original Trilogy. I didn’t completely expect Snoke to get offed so early in this trilogy but it’s kind of whatever to me.
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Old 12-15-17, 01:29 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I gave it a 4 out of 5 last night but after sitting with it for awhile it really is a 3 out 5. I even canceled my Hot Toys Luke from the film.
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Old 12-15-17, 01:32 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by stvn1974 View Post
I gave it a 4 out of 5 last night but after sitting with it for awhile it really is a 3 out 5. I even canceled my Hot Toys Luke from the film.
I have Luke on order and am actually contemplating Kylo and Rey.
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Old 12-15-17, 01:47 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
It doesn’t bother me. Again similarities don’t mean they’re exact copies. So there are some things we’ve seen before that resemble what’s happens in this film. End of the world I guess because we all know that a Star Wars film isn’t going to feature some familiar tropes right? Seriously this isn’t high art stuff here. This is the eighth entry in a forty year old franchise.
It's not the end of the world, but if you think speeder/walker battles on a snow planet (I know I keep harping on this one thing, but it's just one example) is just some sci-fi trope that's bound to get recycled if you give it enough time and not an explicit reference to ESB, then I don't know what to tell you. Again, if it doesn't bother you, that's fine. These sorts of things tend to pull me right out of the movie. It would be fine if they weren't so blatant and numerous. I get why they did it on TFA, but I had higher expectations for TLJ.
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