View Poll Results: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017)
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#1276
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#1277
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the straps of boots
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
Canto Bight criticises liberal capitalism, the dominant belief system of most of the film's audience. This is not a flaw. The claim it should be deleted is hilarious, and betrays the ideology of the subject.
It's the flipside of 'rey is a mary sue.' People say that because it occurs to them as a mistake that a female character could be very naturally competent at something - it says more about them than the film.
The scenes depicting class issues, featuring the slave-children being recruited into the resistance, are core to the entire philosophy of star wars and show exactly what the resistance is even fighting for. Without scenes like this, Star Wars is a big army fighting a small army, but one is probably bad because they're called an empire. Good and bad can be safely abstracted away from having to think about how it relates to actual people, or the real-world implications of ideas, and get us back to the 'purity' of blue laser space man fighting red laser space man.
Much like the fan-edits of the prequels that attempt to erase young Anakin or Jar Jar, the need to remove aspects of stories deemed 'irrelevant' is revealing about what is deemed relevant. It's indicative of the problems with how they think about the world. I'm very dubious when people say they think a film would be improved if only they deleted the working class woman, the children, and the few scenes depicting the sort of things the resistance is actually trying to change. People want those scenes removed not because they add nothing, but because they understand exactly what they communicate, and they don't like what they communicate.
I'm not saying, either you like the scenes or you support child slavery or anything. But the star wars films, when they're good, function intensely well as criticisms of the things their audiences actually think and feel, and these kinds of criticism are a sign that TLJ has at the very least achieved this. It is at the very least, far better than TFA, which is like a film that has already been through the post-fan-edit wringer. No children, no working class people, no time spent seeing what the New Republic is actually like, a perfect good vs evil conflict scrubbed clean of anything valuable to say. It slots perfectly into Wookiepedia with very little effort. Fans love it. It's a safe and convenient addition to the vast Star Wars Brand Content library.
I wonder why so many of those fans don't like the film that tells you this thinking is dangerous, that doing good takes more than that, and that to really get anywhere you have to burn that library down.
It's the flipside of 'rey is a mary sue.' People say that because it occurs to them as a mistake that a female character could be very naturally competent at something - it says more about them than the film.
The scenes depicting class issues, featuring the slave-children being recruited into the resistance, are core to the entire philosophy of star wars and show exactly what the resistance is even fighting for. Without scenes like this, Star Wars is a big army fighting a small army, but one is probably bad because they're called an empire. Good and bad can be safely abstracted away from having to think about how it relates to actual people, or the real-world implications of ideas, and get us back to the 'purity' of blue laser space man fighting red laser space man.
Much like the fan-edits of the prequels that attempt to erase young Anakin or Jar Jar, the need to remove aspects of stories deemed 'irrelevant' is revealing about what is deemed relevant. It's indicative of the problems with how they think about the world. I'm very dubious when people say they think a film would be improved if only they deleted the working class woman, the children, and the few scenes depicting the sort of things the resistance is actually trying to change. People want those scenes removed not because they add nothing, but because they understand exactly what they communicate, and they don't like what they communicate.
I'm not saying, either you like the scenes or you support child slavery or anything. But the star wars films, when they're good, function intensely well as criticisms of the things their audiences actually think and feel, and these kinds of criticism are a sign that TLJ has at the very least achieved this. It is at the very least, far better than TFA, which is like a film that has already been through the post-fan-edit wringer. No children, no working class people, no time spent seeing what the New Republic is actually like, a perfect good vs evil conflict scrubbed clean of anything valuable to say. It slots perfectly into Wookiepedia with very little effort. Fans love it. It's a safe and convenient addition to the vast Star Wars Brand Content library.
I wonder why so many of those fans don't like the film that tells you this thinking is dangerous, that doing good takes more than that, and that to really get anywhere you have to burn that library down.
#1278
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
On one hand, I agree that it was nice to see "other" aspects of the universe and what else the rebellion may be fighting for (or against). On the other hand, that entire sequence felt TOO heavy handed with it's message towards the rich, poor, and even animals.
It could have been handled much better. And without Benecio's terrible dialogue
It could have been handled much better. And without Benecio's terrible dialogue
#1279
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
#1280
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I hated it not for the "heavy handed" message but it was part of the whole Finn/Rose storyline that had little to no bearing on the final outcome. I'm more annoyed Finn really had nothing to do (might as well remained in a coma) and now they're doing this forced love triangle with Rey/Finn/Rose.
#1281
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
A 500 word dissertation on why people don't 'get it.' Nope, we got it. The Canto Bight stuff was just handled very poorly. I'm all for showing different aspects of the universe but going from a poor cantina in IV to a rich "cantina" in VII isn't exactly expanding the universe. It's just lazy. Not only that but starting with TFA you have a story advancing from point A to B to C to D and somewhere in the middle of that they decide to left turn everything into plot point Q? Just to hit the audience over the head that the top 1% profit off war and a mini lesson about saving all creatures? dafuq?
I for one, loved the scenes with the kids "playing Star Wars" with their homemade Luke action figure. That was a brilliant way to not only build his legend but "recruit" to the Resistance and expand the world outside of the Skywalker family. That was actually one of my favorite scenes.
I for one, loved the scenes with the kids "playing Star Wars" with their homemade Luke action figure. That was a brilliant way to not only build his legend but "recruit" to the Resistance and expand the world outside of the Skywalker family. That was actually one of my favorite scenes.
#1282
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
#1283
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#1284
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
Rey was an awesome pilot just out of the blue in TFA if someone has a problem with that it doesn't mean that they think that girls can't be awesome pilots. It just means there is a plot hole.
#1285
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the straps of boots
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I'm not saying I 100% agree with the guy, but holy shit that's a massive overreaction to what he actually wrote. Hit a nerve, did he?
#1286
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I just hate pretentious asshats who think their shit don't stink.
#1287
Member
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. Poe's assault was partially a very long shot chance at taking out a dreadnaught, but also served as a distraction for the rest of the fleet to get up and away from the planet, and ready to jump to light speed. Leia states that the planet's been safely evacuated when she calls off the attack on the dreadnought, so the dreadnought wasn't an immediate threat anymore.
#1288
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
If the fleet had jumped away before the bombing run, the dreadnaught would've still had most of its defenses disabled, and the fleet would've still had the bombers to make a run at it. It's possible the dreadnaught would've not made the same jump, but jumped back to a shipyard for repairs, with Snoke's taking its place anyway. I don't think you can definitely say that the Resistance fleet would've been in worse shape if not for the bomber run.
Even if the dreadnaught would've followed them and pose a bigger thread, Poe's decision was still irresponsible because he didn't know The First Order could track them at that point. His concern wasn't "what if they track us through hyperspace, something that's never been done before?" His concern was that they could take out a big military target. He wanted a flashy victory instead of what was most important at that moment, which was getting away and surviving to fight another day. Destroying a single dreadnaught means nothing if the entire Resistance is obliterated.
#1289
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Saw it last night and loved it! I’m not going to read through 33 pages of fanboys bitching but it appears I’m in the minority.
The above article on the Canto Bight sequence makes perfect sense to me, aside from the fairly pretentious writing. The bad guys are bad guys simply because the story calls for it has always bugged me about Star Wars. I’m glad to get a glimpse of WHY the Rebels/Resistence are fighting back.
Probably my biggest complaint would be Luke’s death. I always assumed Luke would die by the end of the series but they really wrote themselves into a corner for Ep. IX. Especially now that Carrie Fisher won’t be in it. They could have easily removed that 10 second clip of Luke disappearing and it would have allowed for Luke’s return if needed and it wouldn’t have changed the story in Ep. VIII one bit.
The above article on the Canto Bight sequence makes perfect sense to me, aside from the fairly pretentious writing. The bad guys are bad guys simply because the story calls for it has always bugged me about Star Wars. I’m glad to get a glimpse of WHY the Rebels/Resistence are fighting back.
Probably my biggest complaint would be Luke’s death. I always assumed Luke would die by the end of the series but they really wrote themselves into a corner for Ep. IX. Especially now that Carrie Fisher won’t be in it. They could have easily removed that 10 second clip of Luke disappearing and it would have allowed for Luke’s return if needed and it wouldn’t have changed the story in Ep. VIII one bit.
#1290
Member
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
If the fleet had jumped away before the bombing run, the dreadnaught would've still had most of its defenses disabled, and the fleet would've still had the bombers to make a run at it. It's possible the dreadnaught would've not made the same jump, but jumped back to a shipyard for repairs, with Snoke's taking its place anyway. I don't think you can definitely say that the Resistance fleet would've been in worse shape if not for the bomber run.
Even if the dreadnaught would've followed them and pose a bigger thread, Poe's decision was still irresponsible because he didn't know The First Order could track them at that point. His concern wasn't "what if they track us through hyperspace, something that's never been done before?" His concern was that they could take out a big military target. He wanted a flashy victory instead of what was most important at that moment, which was getting away and surviving to fight another day. Destroying a single dreadnaught means nothing if the entire Resistance is obliterated.
Last edited by Brack; 12-31-17 at 03:53 PM.
#1292
Member
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Saw it last night and loved it! I’m not going to read through 33 pages of fanboys bitching but it appears I’m in the minority.
The above article on the Canto Bight sequence makes perfect sense to me, aside from the fairly pretentious writing. The bad guys are bad guys simply because the story calls for it has always bugged me about Star Wars. I’m glad to get a glimpse of WHY the Rebels/Resistence are fighting back.
Probably my biggest complaint would be Luke’s death. I always assumed Luke would die by the end of the series but they really wrote themselves into a corner for Ep. IX. Especially now that Carrie Fisher won’t be in it. They could have easily removed that 10 second clip of Luke disappearing and it would have allowed for Luke’s return if needed and it wouldn’t have changed the story in Ep. VIII one bit.
The above article on the Canto Bight sequence makes perfect sense to me, aside from the fairly pretentious writing. The bad guys are bad guys simply because the story calls for it has always bugged me about Star Wars. I’m glad to get a glimpse of WHY the Rebels/Resistence are fighting back.
Probably my biggest complaint would be Luke’s death. I always assumed Luke would die by the end of the series but they really wrote themselves into a corner for Ep. IX. Especially now that Carrie Fisher won’t be in it. They could have easily removed that 10 second clip of Luke disappearing and it would have allowed for Luke’s return if needed and it wouldn’t have changed the story in Ep. VIII one bit.
#1293
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
That’s kind of the sense I got as well. But Luke force ghosting himself around the Galaxy isn’t nearly as satisfying as Luke kicking ass in person. I realize Hamill is no spring chicken but the little taste of Luke’s lightsaber battle we got in TLJ was fun to see.
Last edited by GoldenJCJ; 12-31-17 at 11:56 AM.
#1295
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Officially the highest grossing movie of the year--and crossing 1B WW--after 3 weeks unseating the Mouse House's own Beauty and the Beast.
Really hope this "backlash" and "soft" box office numbers don't hurt the franchise in the long run.
Happy New Year peeps!
Really hope this "backlash" and "soft" box office numbers don't hurt the franchise in the long run.
Happy New Year peeps!
#1296
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
#1297
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
Wow, I finally caught up with this thread...
I saw a few people mention that Anakin was the product of immaculate conception. Those people really should go back to Sunday school!
There's actually a pretty obvious way to explain Leia's death. The opening crawl will say something like this: "After the death of her brother, Leia lost the will to live (just like her mother)."
I hope that episode 9 is the last for Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO. They were barely used. They should just get a final send off. Did R2 and 3PO share any screen time or have any dialog together?
Assuming that Mark Hammill doesn't come back, Anthony Daniels will be the last original cast member still appearing. They should just tell him he's done after 9 and that he can go on and gain 20 pounds or whatever. None of the remaining characters have much of a connection to R2 and 3PO anyway. Maybe Kylo does.
I guess they still need Chewie around to to fly the Falcon, although Rey can pretty much do that on her own. Maybe it's time for Chewie to return to his actual family after all this time. He can make sure his son hasn't become addicted to VR porn. Who owns the Falcon now? Does it pass to Chewie or Kylo?
In TFA, Finn needed a pilot to help him escape, so how is he able to fly a ship in this one? Or are those speeders more like cars where everyone can pretty drive them?
Also, my theory is that they only put Maz Kanata in the movie so that could have Lupita Nyong'o walk red carpets and do press as a cast member.
I saw a few people mention that Anakin was the product of immaculate conception. Those people really should go back to Sunday school!
There's actually a pretty obvious way to explain Leia's death. The opening crawl will say something like this: "After the death of her brother, Leia lost the will to live (just like her mother)."
I hope that episode 9 is the last for Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO. They were barely used. They should just get a final send off. Did R2 and 3PO share any screen time or have any dialog together?
Assuming that Mark Hammill doesn't come back, Anthony Daniels will be the last original cast member still appearing. They should just tell him he's done after 9 and that he can go on and gain 20 pounds or whatever. None of the remaining characters have much of a connection to R2 and 3PO anyway. Maybe Kylo does.
I guess they still need Chewie around to to fly the Falcon, although Rey can pretty much do that on her own. Maybe it's time for Chewie to return to his actual family after all this time. He can make sure his son hasn't become addicted to VR porn. Who owns the Falcon now? Does it pass to Chewie or Kylo?
In TFA, Finn needed a pilot to help him escape, so how is he able to fly a ship in this one? Or are those speeders more like cars where everyone can pretty drive them?
Also, my theory is that they only put Maz Kanata in the movie so that could have Lupita Nyong'o walk red carpets and do press as a cast member.
#1298
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
R2 is old news. This is BB-8’s world now!
#1299
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread
I don't have a problem with Leia dying off screen, but I hope they don't go the "lost her will to live" route. Leia is a tough bitch. There's no way she would just give up like that.
#1300
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread