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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Old 12-30-17, 06:50 PM
  #1276  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Draven
That Rian Johnson! What's he thinking, making a movie that is extremely successful!?!? He should have done what armchair directors think instead.
Josh Trank could have made a successful Star Wars movie
Old 12-30-17, 06:52 PM
  #1277  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.

https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
Canto Bight criticises liberal capitalism, the dominant belief system of most of the film's audience. This is not a flaw. The claim it should be deleted is hilarious, and betrays the ideology of the subject.

It's the flipside of 'rey is a mary sue.' People say that because it occurs to them as a mistake that a female character could be very naturally competent at something - it says more about them than the film.

The scenes depicting class issues, featuring the slave-children being recruited into the resistance, are core to the entire philosophy of star wars and show exactly what the resistance is even fighting for. Without scenes like this, Star Wars is a big army fighting a small army, but one is probably bad because they're called an empire. Good and bad can be safely abstracted away from having to think about how it relates to actual people, or the real-world implications of ideas, and get us back to the 'purity' of blue laser space man fighting red laser space man.

Much like the fan-edits of the prequels that attempt to erase young Anakin or Jar Jar, the need to remove aspects of stories deemed 'irrelevant' is revealing about what is deemed relevant. It's indicative of the problems with how they think about the world. I'm very dubious when people say they think a film would be improved if only they deleted the working class woman, the children, and the few scenes depicting the sort of things the resistance is actually trying to change. People want those scenes removed not because they add nothing, but because they understand exactly what they communicate, and they don't like what they communicate.

I'm not saying, either you like the scenes or you support child slavery or anything. But the star wars films, when they're good, function intensely well as criticisms of the things their audiences actually think and feel, and these kinds of criticism are a sign that TLJ has at the very least achieved this. It is at the very least, far better than TFA, which is like a film that has already been through the post-fan-edit wringer. No children, no working class people, no time spent seeing what the New Republic is actually like, a perfect good vs evil conflict scrubbed clean of anything valuable to say. It slots perfectly into Wookiepedia with very little effort. Fans love it. It's a safe and convenient addition to the vast Star Wars Brand Content library.

I wonder why so many of those fans don't like the film that tells you this thinking is dangerous, that doing good takes more than that, and that to really get anywhere you have to burn that library down.
Old 12-30-17, 06:56 PM
  #1278  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

On one hand, I agree that it was nice to see "other" aspects of the universe and what else the rebellion may be fighting for (or against). On the other hand, that entire sequence felt TOO heavy handed with it's message towards the rich, poor, and even animals.

It could have been handled much better. And without Benecio's terrible dialogue
Old 12-30-17, 09:19 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dan
Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.

https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
I hated it not for the "heavy handed" message but it was part of the whole Finn/Rose storyline that had little to no bearing on the final outcome. I'm more annoyed Finn really had nothing to do (might as well remained in a coma) and now they're doing this forced love triangle with Rey/Finn/Rose.
Old 12-30-17, 09:41 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by TheMovieman
I hated it not for the "heavy handed" message but it was part of the whole Finn/Rose storyline that had little to no bearing on the final outcome. I'm more annoyed Finn really had nothing to do (might as well remained in a coma) and now they're doing this forced love triangle with Rey/Finn/Rose.
What exactly was heavy handed about that segment of the movie? Don't most Star Wars movies have a lesson to be learned?
Old 12-30-17, 09:51 PM
  #1281  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

A 500 word dissertation on why people don't 'get it.' Nope, we got it. The Canto Bight stuff was just handled very poorly. I'm all for showing different aspects of the universe but going from a poor cantina in IV to a rich "cantina" in VII isn't exactly expanding the universe. It's just lazy. Not only that but starting with TFA you have a story advancing from point A to B to C to D and somewhere in the middle of that they decide to left turn everything into plot point Q? Just to hit the audience over the head that the top 1% profit off war and a mini lesson about saving all creatures? dafuq?

I for one, loved the scenes with the kids "playing Star Wars" with their homemade Luke action figure. That was a brilliant way to not only build his legend but "recruit" to the Resistance and expand the world outside of the Skywalker family. That was actually one of my favorite scenes.
Old 12-30-17, 10:04 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dan
Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.

https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
I'm not a fan of the "you hated this plot thread just because its politics make you uncomfortable" angle. That's lazy film criticism, in my opinion. My problems with the Finn/Rose storyline are in the cinematic execution. I actually thought its themes were interesting, but the poor execution made it a missed opportunity. All of the interactions between Finn and Rose felt forced, which was in stark contrast to the natural chemistry between Finn and Rey in TFA. The plotting was clunky and it didn't give Finn's character any meaningful arc. The potential "live free - don't join" internal conflict for Finn could have made for a really interesting arc, but was woefully underdeveloped to the point of being almost non-existent. DJ served as a deus ex machina twice within the span of like 20 minutes. The whole thing feels like a bunch of pieces with potential that never came together as they should have and it is rightfully criticized as the weakest part of TLJ.
Old 12-30-17, 10:34 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by zero
What exactly was heavy handed about that segment of the movie? Don't most Star Wars movies have a lesson to be learned?
Notice the "heavy handed" in quotes. Some felt it was. Personally I just didn't think that whole storyline was necessary.
Old 12-31-17, 01:55 AM
  #1284  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dan
Seems like most hated the Canto Bight stuff. I thought it was alright, but here's an opinion I thought was worth sharing. Came across it last night.

https://curiouscat.me/Hbomberguy/pos...772?1514614585
What a pretentious asshat. So the only reason people had a problem with Rey coming from nobodies is because we all think that women can't do anything and should just be in the kitchen making sandwiches. Seriously?! They think that is the reason we had a problem with that plot point? We're all sexist mouth breathers? I love it when people think they are so high and mighty and open minded yet they themselves are being close minded and thinking that if someone doesn't think their way they must be wrong.

Rey was an awesome pilot just out of the blue in TFA if someone has a problem with that it doesn't mean that they think that girls can't be awesome pilots. It just means there is a plot hole.
Old 12-31-17, 03:30 AM
  #1285  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I'm not saying I 100% agree with the guy, but holy shit that's a massive overreaction to what he actually wrote. Hit a nerve, did he?
Old 12-31-17, 05:08 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dan
I'm not saying I 100% agree with the guy, but holy shit that's a massive overreaction to what he actually wrote. Hit a nerve, did he?
I absolutely love the fact that there is starting to be more diversity in movies.

I just hate pretentious asshats who think their shit don't stink.
Old 12-31-17, 09:01 AM
  #1287  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Jay G.
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. Poe's assault was partially a very long shot chance at taking out a dreadnaught, but also served as a distraction for the rest of the fleet to get up and away from the planet, and ready to jump to light speed. Leia states that the planet's been safely evacuated when she calls off the attack on the dreadnought, so the dreadnought wasn't an immediate threat anymore.
No, there’s a specific part where the two canons that are embedded in the bottom portion of the dreadnought are aimed directly at the Raddus, and just before it is shot at and assumed would be destoyed, the bombs blow up the dreadnought. The dreadnought wasn’t targeting the planet at this point anymore because the planet was already evachated. If they had jumped to lightspeed and not released the bombers, the First Order would have just caught up with the Resistance, with the Resistance being caught off guard and destroyed. Snoke’s ship never attacked the Resistance, so I didn’t think it was a true dreadnought. Poe called them fleet-killers, not base-killers
Old 12-31-17, 10:22 AM
  #1288  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Brack
No, there’s a specific part where the two canons that are embedded in the bottom portion of the dreadnought are aimed directly at the Raddus, and just before it is shot at and assumed would be destoyed, the bombs blow up the dreadnought ..
Except aren't all the other ships still around at that point solely because the bombing run is going on? It seems like the fleet has to jump at the same time.

If the fleet had jumped away before the bombing run, the dreadnaught would've still had most of its defenses disabled, and the fleet would've still had the bombers to make a run at it. It's possible the dreadnaught would've not made the same jump, but jumped back to a shipyard for repairs, with Snoke's taking its place anyway. I don't think you can definitely say that the Resistance fleet would've been in worse shape if not for the bomber run.

Even if the dreadnaught would've followed them and pose a bigger thread, Poe's decision was still irresponsible because he didn't know The First Order could track them at that point. His concern wasn't "what if they track us through hyperspace, something that's never been done before?" His concern was that they could take out a big military target. He wanted a flashy victory instead of what was most important at that moment, which was getting away and surviving to fight another day. Destroying a single dreadnaught means nothing if the entire Resistance is obliterated.
Old 12-31-17, 10:43 AM
  #1289  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Saw it last night and loved it! I’m not going to read through 33 pages of fanboys bitching but it appears I’m in the minority.

The above article on the Canto Bight sequence makes perfect sense to me, aside from the fairly pretentious writing. The bad guys are bad guys simply because the story calls for it has always bugged me about Star Wars. I’m glad to get a glimpse of WHY the Rebels/Resistence are fighting back.

Probably my biggest complaint would be Luke’s death. I always assumed Luke would die by the end of the series but they really wrote themselves into a corner for Ep. IX. Especially now that Carrie Fisher won’t be in it. They could have easily removed that 10 second clip of Luke disappearing and it would have allowed for Luke’s return if needed and it wouldn’t have changed the story in Ep. VIII one bit.
Old 12-31-17, 10:43 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Except aren't all the other ships still around at that point solely because the bombing run is going on? It seems like the fleet has to jump at the same time.
Says who? They wanted to go to the same place at the same time I guess.

If the fleet had jumped away before the bombing run, the dreadnaught would've still had most of its defenses disabled, and the fleet would've still had the bombers to make a run at it. It's possible the dreadnaught would've not made the same jump, but jumped back to a shipyard for repairs, with Snoke's taking its place anyway. I don't think you can definitely say that the Resistance fleet would've been in worse shape if not for the bomber run.
Snoke never attacked, and there’s no evidence the dreadnought would disappear for repairs. It was targeting the Ruffus before getting destroyed. See the movie again. It would have done the same after light speed.

Even if the dreadnaught would've followed them and pose a bigger thread, Poe's decision was still irresponsible because he didn't know The First Order could track them at that point. His concern wasn't "what if they track us through hyperspace, something that's never been done before?" His concern was that they could take out a big military target. He wanted a flashy victory instead of what was most important at that moment, which was getting away and surviving to fight another day. Destroying a single dreadnaught means nothing if the entire Resistance is obliterated.
He wouldn’t have been responsible since light speed tracking was brand new tech, and never been done before. Could have happened to anyone. And Dreadnoughts ae fleet-killers, and was about to destroy Ruffus (see the movie again if you don’t believe me).

Last edited by Brack; 12-31-17 at 03:53 PM.
Old 12-31-17, 10:46 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Saw it last night and loved it! I’m not going to read through 33 pages of fanboys bitching but it appears I’m in the minority.
If you go by the poll, majority gave it four stars or more. That's pretty damn good.
Old 12-31-17, 10:50 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Saw it last night and loved it! I’m not going to read through 33 pages of fanboys bitching but it appears I’m in the minority.

The above article on the Canto Bight sequence makes perfect sense to me, aside from the fairly pretentious writing. The bad guys are bad guys simply because the story calls for it has always bugged me about Star Wars. I’m glad to get a glimpse of WHY the Rebels/Resistence are fighting back.

Probably my biggest complaint would be Luke’s death. I always assumed Luke would die by the end of the series but they really wrote themselves into a corner for Ep. IX. Especially now that Carrie Fisher won’t be in it. They could have easily removed that 10 second clip of Luke disappearing and it would have allowed for Luke’s return if needed and it wouldn’t have changed the story in Ep. VIII one bit.
I think Luke had a “Lucy” moment and is “everywhere” now, at least he seemed pretty pleased with himself.
Old 12-31-17, 11:02 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by TomOpus
If you go by the poll, majority gave it four stars or more. That's pretty damn good.
I really need to pay attention to these polls more than I do. I wasn’t even paying attention.
Originally Posted by Brack
I think Luke had a “Lucy” moment and is “everywhere” now, at least he seemed pretty pleased with himself.
That’s kind of the sense I got as well. But Luke force ghosting himself around the Galaxy isn’t nearly as satisfying as Luke kicking ass in person. I realize Hamill is no spring chicken but the little taste of Luke’s lightsaber battle we got in TLJ was fun to see.

Last edited by GoldenJCJ; 12-31-17 at 11:56 AM.
Old 12-31-17, 11:18 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
I really need to pay attention to these polls more than I do. I wasn’t even paying attention.
The minority is just more vocal. It's just as well not to read all the pages of bitching. I gotta get some newer movies out of the way and will probably see it a third time.
Old 12-31-17, 07:47 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Officially the highest grossing movie of the year--and crossing 1B WW--after 3 weeks unseating the Mouse House's own Beauty and the Beast.

Really hope this "backlash" and "soft" box office numbers don't hurt the franchise in the long run.

Happy New Year peeps!
Old 12-31-17, 08:16 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Saw it last night and loved it! I’m not going to read through 33 pages of fanboys bitching but it appears I’m in the minority.
62% gave it between 4 and 5 stars. 70% if you add in the 3.5 ratings. So... not exactly the "minority".
Old 12-31-17, 09:27 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Wow, I finally caught up with this thread...

I saw a few people mention that Anakin was the product of immaculate conception. Those people really should go back to Sunday school!

There's actually a pretty obvious way to explain Leia's death. The opening crawl will say something like this: "After the death of her brother, Leia lost the will to live (just like her mother)."

I hope that episode 9 is the last for Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO. They were barely used. They should just get a final send off. Did R2 and 3PO share any screen time or have any dialog together?

Assuming that Mark Hammill doesn't come back, Anthony Daniels will be the last original cast member still appearing. They should just tell him he's done after 9 and that he can go on and gain 20 pounds or whatever. None of the remaining characters have much of a connection to R2 and 3PO anyway. Maybe Kylo does.

I guess they still need Chewie around to to fly the Falcon, although Rey can pretty much do that on her own. Maybe it's time for Chewie to return to his actual family after all this time. He can make sure his son hasn't become addicted to VR porn. Who owns the Falcon now? Does it pass to Chewie or Kylo?

In TFA, Finn needed a pilot to help him escape, so how is he able to fly a ship in this one? Or are those speeders more like cars where everyone can pretty drive them?

Also, my theory is that they only put Maz Kanata in the movie so that could have Lupita Nyong'o walk red carpets and do press as a cast member.
Old 12-31-17, 10:31 PM
  #1298  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by windom
I hope that episode 9 is the last for Chewie, R2-D2, and C-3PO. They were barely used. They should just get a final send off. Did R2 and 3PO share any screen time or have any dialog together?
They never had any screen time together and actually R2 only appeared in one brief scene (two of you count the burning temple flashback).

R2 is old news. This is BB-8’s world now!
Old 12-31-17, 10:50 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by windom
There's actually a pretty obvious way to explain Leia's death. The opening crawl will say something like this: "After the death of her brother, Leia lost the will to live (just like her mother)."
I don't have a problem with Leia dying off screen, but I hope they don't go the "lost her will to live" route. Leia is a tough bitch. There's no way she would just give up like that.
Old 01-01-18, 01:49 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
They never had any screen time together and actually R2 only appeared in one brief scene (two of you count the burning temple flashback).

R2 is old news. This is BB-8’s world now!
weren't they on screen together in the mine on Crait?


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