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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Old 12-24-17, 08:37 AM
  #1026  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Who said it's a masterpiece though? Seems like 99.99% of people hate the casino plot so that alone keeps the film from being).
Many critics who are doubling down are using those type of words, essentially saying this movie goes over the heads of the average moviegoer. I can’t link things from my phone but I will post some links to articles saying this.
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Old 12-24-17, 09:02 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Franchot View Post
We (and other characters) hear and see Ben walking and talking and doing things or Ben's voice and vision is only perceivable by/to Luke who is tuned into the Force? Big difference. When Yoda sent out that lightning bolt in TLJ, I felt that Star Wars had headed into Topper territory.
In Return of the Jedi force ghost Ben sits on a log so apparently they can interact with the real world...unless he was just getting in a good ghost quad workout while talking to Luke.

I didn't have a problem at all with what Yoda could do and I really really hope JJ will bring force ghost Luke back for IX. Maybe they will expand on it then.

Maybe Yoda was only able to those things on the island since it was a very special place to the Jedi and strong with the force. Calling down a lightning bolt on the sarlacc might not work...
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Old 12-24-17, 09:04 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Saw The Greatest Showman, Jumanji WTTJ and Star Wars VIII this week and I definitely enjoyed The Greatest Showman the most, with the other two being tied. You watch SW because everyone watches SW. I enjoyed parts of it and I'll be watching ep 9, but as far as entertainment, TGS hands down.
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Old 12-24-17, 10:26 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
Damn, 77% drop.

So much like Lucas after The Phantom Menace, is Johnson now the most hated man in the Star Wars Universe?
Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Damn. I'm just a casual Star Wars fan. But I thought this movie was pretty great. It's hard to curb internet fanboy negativity. I'm interested in seeing how people see The Last Jedi come 1-2 years from now.
That kind of box office drop tells me it's much more then "internet fanboy negativity" regarding the divide on this movie.
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Old 12-24-17, 10:29 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Again, I just rewatched TFA. For all the crap Luke gets for taking his ball and going home, Han did the same thing. I realize he's a smuggler and not a Jedi, but you'd think he could reach out to his son sometime in the past few years before TFA. With Luke you can kind of see how he's deathly afraid to make things worse and is ashamed of what happened with Ben, then when he cuts himself off he has no idea what was going on in the rest of the galaxy. Even when told about the predicament Leia is in, I don't think he even believes he can help at first. Plus he's following the age old tradition of the Jedi running away to a remote place, growing old, then dying to motivate the next generation without really giving much formal training.

So how did that old guy in the beginning of TFA get the missing piece of the map leading to Luke? I understand the jedi archives and somehow R2-D2 had the rest of the map, but was that just the location of the first jedi temple and they assumed Luke had gone there, or did Luke leave some breadcrumbs for some reason?
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Old 12-24-17, 11:21 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fumanstan View Post
That kind of box office drop tells me it's much more then "internet fanboy negativity" regarding the divide on this movie.
I agree as I have been arguing all week with smug critics on social media who have been saying that’s the reason.

This was a textbook example of people preoccupied with the internet instead of talking to friends/family/coworkers. Star Wars is one of the few things in entertainment where everyone still sees it together, not some Netflix show that gets binged watched at different times.

There was no buzz in my work this week from anyone as it ranged from ‘It’s OK’ to ‘I hated it’ so I knew something was up because most of those people loved TFA.

I just hope this isn’t a The Walking Dead example (Season 7) where something controversial splits the fanbase and a portion of it never comes back. And Disney gave the keys to Rian Johnson for a new Trilogy....,
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Old 12-24-17, 01:07 PM
  #1032  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

That is devastating to anyone's argument that this is a thoughtful or well crafted film.
That's not saying you can't like/love it- just that it's lazy/sloppy as hell and not very smart about itself in the end. It's the type of film that in years to come people will cop to liking as a guilty/nostalgic pleasure.

FWIW, I think the perfunctory way Snoke is dispatched, along the common-ness of Rey's parents, are actually positive aspects.

Especially in regards to the latter as it gets away from the woeful concept of midichlorians. It democratizes the Force in a way that was more consistent with the first film as opposed to all the rest (save for Rogue One, which is one reason I love that one so much).

But that doesn't mitigate the problems that Rey has as a Mary Sue character, which is emblematic of a lot of stuff in the film where the Force is concerned.
It's really a strong example of the "*shoulder shrug* don't bother asking, 'cause a wizard did it" focus on Jedi and Force nonsense that has been an increasing problem ever since Empire first laid down it's dopey "Jedi rules".

The fact is, there are no hard and fast rules for the Jedi bullshit, because it's all about what the story needs them to do at any particular point in time.
And as Leia proves, why even bother training to be a Jedi since 'if you got it, you got it' and not being trained easily allows you defy astrophysics.
Cool beans.
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Old 12-24-17, 01:09 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
That is devastating to anyone's argument that this is a thoughtful or well crafted film.
That's not saying you can't like/love it- just that it's lazy/sloppy as hell and not very smart about itself in the end.

FWIW, I think the perfunctory way Snoke is dispatched, along the common-ness of Rey's parents, are actually positive aspects.

Especially in regards to the latter as it gets away from the woeful concept of midichlorians. It democratizes the Force in a way that was more consistent with the first film as opposed to all the rest (save for Rogue One, which is one reason I love that one so much).

But that doesn't mitigate the problems that Rey has as a Mary Sue character, which is emblematic of a lot of stuff in the film where the Force is concerned.
It's really a strong example of the "*shoulder shrug* don't bother asking, 'cause a wizard did it" focus on Jedi and Force nonsense that has been an increasing problem ever since Empire first laid down it's dopey "Jedi rules".

The fact is, there are no hard and fast rules for the Jedi bullshit, because it's all about what the story needs them to do at any particular point in time.
And as Leia proves, why even bother training to be a Jedi since 'if you got it, you got it' and not being trained easily allows you defy astrophysics.
Cool beans.
Sorry Paul, but unless you’ve seen it you don’t get to assess the quality of the storytelling, regardless of what the video says.
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Old 12-24-17, 01:28 PM
  #1034  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

The thing is- Rey was already a Mary Sue in TFA.

Jedi BS nonsense was all over RotJ and continued on thru TFA.

I can easily ladle those criticisms because I feel like they are endemic to the "saga" as a whole.

As far as assessing the quality of TLJ without seeing it, The rundown of inane and needlessly convoluted plot gave me a headache. Last thing I want to do is watch that nonsense play out in reel time (2.5 hours of that shit?...UGH).

And people in the business of telling stories make those kinds of calls every day on basis of simple story synopses.
It would be an odd thing if every film had to be seen only after it was fully created before you could actually criticize what works or doesn't within the story.

Whether you love it or not, if that rundown is accurate, then TLJ clearly has story issues.
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Old 12-24-17, 01:29 PM
  #1035  
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Trying to debate plot points of a film that you haven't seen. That's gold, Jerry. GOLD!
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Old 12-24-17, 01:33 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
The thing is- Rey was already a Mary Sue in TFA.

Jedi BS nonsense was all over RotJ and continued on thru TFA.

I can easily ladle those criticisms because I feel like they are endemic to the "saga" as a whole.

As far as assessing the quality of TLJ without seeing it, The rundown of inane and needlessly convoluted plot gave me a headache. Last thing I want to do is watch that nonsense play out in reel time (2.5 hours of that shit?...UGH).

And people in the business of telling stories make those kinds of calls every day on basis of simple story synopses.
It would be an odd thing if every film had to be fully created before you could actually criticize what works or doesn't within the story.

Whether you love it or not, if that rundown is accurate, then TLJ clearly has story issues.
I’d think you’d understand that execution is as important as the plot points themselves. But if you prefer to read Wikipedia summaries and then proclaim yourself an expert, well, knock yourself out. I always appreciated your criticisms of ROTJ but I always assumed you actually saw the movie!
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Old 12-24-17, 01:54 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Sure, execution is important. Editing is fundamental and holding a shot too long can make an amazing amount of difference in the effectiveness of a scene/sequence .

But that is not necessarily a plot issue.

At the same time, you can tell me the plot of a story and I may be able to tell just from that, that you are taking ten needless steps to get the story from point a to point b, and at the same time you are muddying the clarity of character motivation and relatability, or conflicts.

And here is the thing- in telling his story about his problems with the film, he got his points across to me clearly and in an entertaining way.
It was also effective in that any curiosity I might have still harbored was pretty much fully extinguished by the end of that 20 minutes.

I'm not arguing that his specific points were or were not always spot on because I can't not having see the film. On second thought, I guess I am, as it's those story/plot points that seem to be so sloppy to me.
In any case, he made a compelling argument for why I can easily save my $10 and put it towards something I will likely enjoy a lot more.

If you feel he mischaracterized anything, feel free to call it out and debate his points. I would enjoy reading that.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 12-24-17 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 12-24-17, 02:32 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Multiple Jedi: We were shown dozens of Jedi in the prequels. Whose assumption is it that only certain families/lineage can be force sensitive? You even have the shitty ass midichlorians "science-based" in this universe that puts a big red neon sign out there letting you know anyone can be born attuned to the force. All one needs is a few certain blood cells floating around in their bloodstream. So in this argument "anyone can be a Jedi" isn't canon as it only pertains to the OT? Even then, where in the OT do they say only select people "get" the force? Then if you take into account the original EU novels, comics and games, it's been clear for decades that anyone can be born force sensitive. If George wanted the force limited to certain families, it would have been established a long time ago. He had veto power on all these projects.

I get not liking these plot points, but for some to claim some overarching "not canon" debate is silly. What you mean to say is "not MY canon."
I am well aware that there were/are hundreds of Jedi out there (The Clone Wars) and family lineage is not necessarily connected to being force sensitive, I've never disputed that. (Also, that midichlorians junk doesn't fly with me, either.)

I'm just not buying into "anyone" can be Force sensitive and therefore there can be potentially thousands and thousands of Jedi. (It sounds like some form of Transcendental Meditation. Hey, maybe it is! Hey, maybe this Star Wars is in tune with today's "Everybody gets a trophy mentality!" Groovy! From the casino scene in TLJ, it's blatantly obvious that RJ is in tune with the social issues of the day.)

But, I guess having everyone being Force sensitive is the only way the Resistance will be able to raise up an army of Rebels to fight the First Order in the final Star Wars movie of this trilogy. Will there be a massive battle scene to outdo anything in The Two Towers? I'm thinking that that is the way things are going to end up. Maybe we'll end up with thousands upon thousands of Light Sided versus Dark Sided Jedis beating each other to a pulp in the final installment. The CGI fanboys will love it.
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Old 12-24-17, 04:00 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Finally saw it.

Huge disappointment and way too fucking long.

It boggles my mind that after all of these years, and all this money and resources that there wasn't a sequel trilogy blueprint. So JJ just threw a bunch of random shit and loose ends out there in TFA, teeing it up for the next guy who would then have complete control to blow it all up and leave shit for the Ep9 guy. This trilogy suffers from lack of true direction.

Snoke.... Phasma... Rey's Parents, Mary Poppins Leia.... bitchbaby Luke...

I really think I kind of hated this movie.
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Old 12-24-17, 04:30 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

teeing it up for the next guy who would then have complete control to blow it all up and leave shit for the Ep9 guy.
JJ is directing EP 9, so relax.
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Old 12-24-17, 06:07 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Franchot View Post
I am well aware that there were/are hundreds of Jedi out there (The Clone Wars) and family lineage is not necessarily connected to being force sensitive, I've never disputed that. (Also, that midichlorians junk doesn't fly with me, either.)

I'm just not buying into "anyone" can be Force sensitive and therefore there can be potentially thousands and thousands of Jedi. (It sounds like some form of Transcendental Meditation. Hey, maybe it is! Hey, maybe this Star Wars is in tune with today's "Everybody gets a trophy mentality!" Groovy! From the casino scene in TLJ, it's blatantly obvious that RJ is in tune with the social issues of the day.)

But, I guess having everyone being Force sensitive is the only way the Resistance will be able to raise up an army of Rebels to fight the First Order in the final Star Wars movie of this trilogy. Will there be a massive battle scene to outdo anything in The Two Towers? I'm thinking that that is the way things are going to end up. Maybe we'll end up with thousands upon thousands of Light Sided versus Dark Sided Jedis beating each other to a pulp in the final installment. The CGI fanboys will love it.
You're jumping from "anyone" to "everyone." Those are two very different things. I didn't see anything in TLJ that implied "everyone." Showing the kid and having Rey be a nobody is just letting the audience know the Jedi are alive and well. The rebellion wont have to rely on Skywalker blood to get rid of the First Order. There are other force sensitive people in this universe.
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Old 12-24-17, 07:54 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by TGM View Post
So JJ just threw a bunch of random shit and loose ends out there in TFA, teeing it up for the next guy who would then have complete control to blow it all up
I mean it's what JJ does. Tosses a bunch of provocative questions and mysteries out there and acts like IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER then .. it gets discarded like it was nothing.

Anyway I appreciate the backlash to this film as it set my expectations extremely low and was pleasantly surprised. If you take away Leia Poppins and the prequelesque casino stuff, most of the rest of the film works fine. Holdo was a pointless character though, having Ackbar or especially Leia going out at the helm would've been far more powerful than some crap character we've just been introduced to five minutes earlier. Also Benicio Del Toro was annoying.
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Old 12-24-17, 08:20 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

This thread has all this talk about the TFA plotting with only JJ being mentioned, while poor Kasdan is like “I...I worked on that too.”
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Old 12-24-17, 08:51 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by TGM View Post
Finally saw it.

Huge disappointment and way too fucking long.

It boggles my mind that after all of these years, and all this money and resources that there wasn't a sequel trilogy blueprint. So JJ just threw a bunch of random shit and loose ends out there in TFA, teeing it up for the next guy who would then have complete control to blow it all up and leave shit for the Ep9 guy. This trilogy suffers from lack of true direction.

Snoke.... Phasma... Rey's Parents, Mary Poppins Leia.... bitchbaby Luke...

I really think I kind of hated this movie.

I actually think this trilogy has gone almost exactly like Lucas would have done, except for Rey being nobody. I know he said he would have exiled Luke too.

I haven't read the EU or "Legends" but from what I gather they're fairly similar with the Solo children and what not.

It's tougher being 35 years later as opposed to say 15-20. They skipped a few things.
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Old 12-25-17, 06:22 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

The time diff is kinda why I wished they either went hard left of hard right on this trilogy. Either make it the last story of Luke and that crew or set it a few generations later for Rey and her gang. Does all the characters a disservice to try and tell the new ones story while giving the older ones screentime too.

PS DBZ Leia was fucking dumb.
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Old 12-25-17, 11:21 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread


Since every time I try and post YouTube videos it crashes threads, here is a link to Red Letter Media's review. Pretty much every issue(plus a few more) that I had with this movie is mentioned and I agree with them 100%.

P.S They also say that Luke's force projection finale feels lazy.
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Old 12-25-17, 11:37 AM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

I was gifted two tickets to see TLJ at a Ft. Worth domed IMAX theater for tomorrow afternoon. Should be worth it for the space battles, at least.
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Old 12-25-17, 04:08 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

thinking about it some more, I feel that Johnson was more interested in laying the groundwork for his own trilogy than doing what was right for the Skywalker saga.
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Old 12-25-17, 04:14 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by TGM View Post
thinking about it some more, I feel that Johnson was more interested in laying the groundwork for his own trilogy than doing what was right for the Skywalker saga.
This isn't the "Skywalker saga" anymore, that ended 2 episodes ago.
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Old 12-25-17, 04:41 PM
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (R. Johnson, 2017) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
This isn't the "Skywalker saga" anymore, that ended 2 episodes ago.
I disagree. Luke, Leia, Ben Solo... Rey if Rian Johnson didn't fuck that up.
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