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Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

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Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Old 04-07-21, 12:25 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Iím not siding with Whedon, and I do think Cyborg as a character was butchered in the theatrical cut of Justice League, but after all this time if this is what Fischer was alleging it seems like he blew things out of proportion.

I mean it essentially sounds like Whedon didnít want to hear his input. I donít know how that really classifies as abuse or whatever he was trying to play it off as. Whedon sounds arrogant and like an asshole for other things, but Iím not particularly sure why Fischer held this months long grudge unless thereís more he still has yet to say.
Old 04-07-21, 01:17 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I think if you look at it from Fisherís perspective, his reaction is understandable.

- Talk that the film canít center on an angry black man
- His character arc getting mostly cut from the film
- The booyah thing (which I donít think is bad as a one-off suggestion) paired with Whedon being a dick
- The booyah thing on its own (seriously, it merits two mentions. When an exec takes you out to a fancy dinner to say a bunch of people might lose their jobs if you donít say booyah, things have taken on a memorably impactful level of surrealism.)
- His complaints seeming to be blown off by the studio
- The studio claiming a black attorney would be investigating his claim and then finding out that no one ever spoke to that person and they were never a part of the investigation, which instead was run by all white people

If nothing else, it feels like the studio blew turds in how badly they handled this, and I can see how a victim in such a situation could feel it was racially motivated.

Note, Iím not necessarily saying any of the involved parties were intentionally being racist, just that they sucked at this and I think Fisherís feelings are reasonable.
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Old 04-07-21, 01:44 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I never got the sense that Fisher was accusing them of acting in a racist manner, just refusing to listen to his perspective. The fact that the typical responses were that "X, Y, and Z did not act out of racism" shows how little people were listening to Fisher in the first place. It seems like he was accusing them of being terrible managers and failing at leadership.
Old 04-07-21, 01:46 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe View Post
I never got the sense that Fisher was accusing them of acting in a racist manner, just refusing to listen to his perspective. The fact that the typical responses were that "X, Y, and Z did not act out of racism" shows how little people were listening to Fisher in the first place. It seems like he was accusing them of being terrible managers and failing at leadership.
He definitely invoked racism:

Fisher says that "the assertion that a Black man would not have his own agency is just as racist as the conversations [Warners leadership] was having about the Justice League reshoots. I've been underestimated at every turn during this process and that is what has led us to this point. Had they taken me as seriously as they should have from the beginning, they would not have made as many foolish mistakes as they did in the process." Snyder denies any role in influencing Fisher.
This does sound like the typical HR experience in a large company, though, where you complain to them about misconduct and the primary response is to protect the company first.
Old 04-07-21, 01:47 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

The "Tortured Black Hero" in comics was a stereotype I was entirely sick of when I was a 12 year old POC.

DC was more guilty of this than Marvel, but both companies were culpable.
  • Cyborg in New Teen Titans: was always bemoaning his lack of humanity, constantly feeling like an outcast (either by society or his own insecurities). He was the only one of the main Titans without a major romantic interest (the one woman he loved, who worked with disabled/prosthetic children, friendzone him early), and eventually they just did away with his humanity and turned into a total machine.
  • Black Lightning in Batman and the Outsiders. He was the LEAST enthusiastic of the team, haunted by a memory of how using his powers accidentally killed a child, called some variation of a racial slur in almost every team adventure, and had the least amount of character growth throughout the series
  • Green Lantern John Stewart - ostensibly the "least" haunted of the list, the Green Lantern writers thought it would be more interesting to take his wife (Katma Tui), an interesting and compelling character in her own right (and I suppose you could say "of color" since she was from Sinestro's planet and had reddish skin), and kill her. Then during Cosmic Odyssey, he was the ONLY HERO who massively screwed up and caused an entire planet and multiple ciivilizations to be destroyed. Katma Tui was resurrected again... and then killed again by Parallax. On and on and on..
    .
  • Tyroc from the Legion of Super-Heroes. Never a fan-favorite, he was saddled with the "Angry Black Man trying to remove his people from society" trope and then just done away with completely (Paul Levitz hated the character). The LSH had almost no non-alien POCs, until the new Invisible Boy of 1983. And they made him a "safe" black man by making him French.
And that's if any main black characters were being introduced at all. Even the black members of the original Teen Titans (Bumblebee, Herald) were sidelined when the New Teen Titans came about in 1980. You saw them ever 2-3 years, if that often. By the 90s they were forgotten.

In regards to the Justice League movie: Zach Snyder did the character right, IMO. Maybe overpowered him by making him essentially a living Mother Box, but he went from angry to essential and accepting of his power in a way that seemed noble and organic. In Whedon's movie? Ehh. Just an angry guy who then just hung out and helped the team as needed.
Old 04-07-21, 01:56 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
He definitely invoked racism:



This does sound like the typical HR experience in a large company, though, where you complain to them about misconduct and the primary response is to protect the company first.
Yeah, it seems like Fisher wanted to be a bigger part of the conversation, but Whedon's style is very much "my way or the highway" and when Fisher took the issue up the ladder it seems like the knee-jerk response from everyone was that "we're not racist, we've focused on minority representation!" The problem being that it was a bunch of white guys making the decisions. It wasn't KKK white hood racism, but that mild racism you get from white liberals who are acting as allies but insisting on being allies in a way that's most convenient to them. IE: WB wanted to appear woke and avoid criticisms of black stereotypes on twitter, but not at the cost of including minorities in the creative process.

I think it all stems from an old school style of management that doesn't fly anymore, and they were so worried about being accused of racism, that they did everything they could to silence the black guy who wanted to make sure that representation was done right.
Old 04-07-21, 02:02 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Yeah, John Stewart's entire character was basically the guilt around what happened in Cosmic Odyssey for a long long time until the animated series actually developed him. Tyroc is actually worse (all black people in the future live on an island) but I think that was the sign of the times, unfortunately. Cyborg, I get your criticism but he was probably one of the most developed black characters in comics at the time: the real crime was that wife beater costume.

I said it in the Snyder movie thread, but while I understand his complaints about Cyborg being cut from the movie, the movie tried to do too much. His backstory is fine in a four hour cut, but if the studio really demanded that it be cut to 2 hours, the Flash and Cyborg stuff would've been my choice to go too (though I would'nt have filmed extra scenes with a family being besieged, so maybe you take some of that back from that)
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Old 04-07-21, 07:02 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Geoff Johns definitely comes off as using ďSome of my best friends are blackĒ as a defense, requesting that he be referred to as ďLebanese-AmericanĒ in the article, pointing out his ex wife was black and current wife is Asian, mentioning that heís written many black characters.

When Diary of a Mad Black Woman came out, Roger Ebert wrote a negative review, and some readers wrote in saying the review/he was racist. He wrote a well-reasoned follow-up, expanding on his issues with the film and the ways Tyler Perry had failed as a filmmaker.

He didnít mention that his wife is black or try to use that as evidence of his lack of racism.
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Old 04-08-21, 01:49 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ View Post
I havenít read the story yet but if that was the filmmakers intentions, they failed...in both cuts.
That was something the execs had been talking about not really the creatives on the move. In Snyder's cut Cyborg is definitely angry because his father transformed him into a "monster" and he couldn't handle his own body on top of that he was grieving for the loss of his mother. In Snyder's cut he was an angry man, as was Aquaman, Batman had evolved since BvS, but the whole point of that movie was Batman's anger. Wonder Woman wasn't angry but still grieving and also not a happy person. The only "fun" person was The Flash, but he was just hiding his insecurities behind humor. So actually Cyborg didn't stand out as being the only angry/moody one.
Whedon's cut gave all of the others a lighter tone, some funny lines and while that doesn't fit to the films narrative, they all weren't so dark anymore. Cyborg's part wasn't only cut short, Whedon added nothing, only booyah. So Whedon definitely failed, although there was a discussion about it.
Old 04-10-21, 06:35 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Wow I thought Charlyne Yi was part of their clique or Rogen has not cast her in any of his latest projects so now she came out or finally spoke of these allegations?


Charlyne Yi, the actress who appeared alongside Seth Rogen in Knocked Up, is calling him out for "enabling" his friend and frequent co-star James Franco.

Since 2018, multiple women have accused Franco of having acted inappropriately with them. Five of them told the Los Angeles Times in January of that year that Franco had been what the newspaper termed "sexually exploitative" with them, while they were students at his acting school. Two recalled him becoming angry when women wouldn't go topless, and a third said that, during a nude orgy scene, he "removed protective plastic guards covering other actress' vaginas while simulating oral sex on them." Two of the women filed lawsuits against the actor. Franco called the allegations "false and inflammatory," and the claims were settled in February.

Yi, who also appeared in The Disaster Artist, said Thursday that she had tried to break her contract and leave that film because she "didn't feel safe working with a f****** sexual predator." She said that people attempted to "bribe me with a bigger acting role."


Charlyne Yi, the actress who appeared alongside Seth Rogen in Knocked Up, is calling him out for "enabling" his friend and frequent co-star James Franco.

Since 2018, multiple women have accused Franco of having acted inappropriately with them. Five of them told the Los Angeles Times in January of that year that Franco had been what the newspaper termed "sexually exploitative" with them, while they were students at his acting school. Two recalled him becoming angry when women wouldn't go topless, and a third said that, during a nude orgy scene, he "removed protective plastic guards covering other actress' vaginas while simulating oral sex on them." Two of the women filed lawsuits against the actor. Franco called the allegations "false and inflammatory," and the claims were settled in February.

Rogen and Franco have been famously close friends since they co-starred in the TV show Freaks and Geeks, which debuted in 1999. They went on to make many movies together, including Pineapple Express in 2008 and, in 2017, the film The Disaster Artist.

She blamed people for minimizing Franco's actions.

"Enablers," she said, "are just as toxic and are abusers too."

Neither Franco nor Rogen, who were both producers on that film, responded to Yahoo Entertainment's request for comment.

Yi noted in the caption that April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month, but "it really should be something men educate themselves about their whole life and learn how to be there & protect women, nonbinary, trans, etcówho are targeted."

She also said Wednesday that one of Rogen's other friends, who organizes events raising awareness about domestic abuse, asked her to share her "abuse story," because men have to hold men accountable for their actions. Yi said he ghosted her after she asked him why he wasn't holding Rogen accountable.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...012455085.html
Old 04-10-21, 07:09 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

The James Franco stuff has been in various blind items for years now. Surprised it's finally gaining some visibility.
Old 04-10-21, 07:46 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by candyrocket786 View Post
The James Franco stuff has been in various blind items for years now. Surprised it's finally gaining some visibility.
It’s been visible for while. He was a in a very pubic lawsuit, which the article mentions.
Old 04-11-21, 12:04 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I figured Franco's career was going to take a hit but I didn't expect Rogan to get shrapnel from this.

Old 04-11-21, 09:04 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Ringmaster View Post
I figured Franco's career was going to take a hit but I didn't expect Rogan to get shrapnel from this.
Didn't you know that you are responsible for the behavior of your friends?
Old 04-11-21, 09:45 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Didn't you know that you are responsible for the behavior of your friends?
Well yeah, if you go into business with a friend and they partake in shitty behavior that youíre aware of, enable and minimize to people who work for you both, then youíve got some responsibility. To be clear, though, itís not responsibility for your friendís shitty behavior, but for your own.
Old 04-11-21, 10:41 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Didn't you know that you are responsible for the behavior of your friends?
Way to misunderstand and over-simplify the issue.
Old 04-11-21, 11:56 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ View Post
Sounds like some pretty damning allegations against Hammer if true.

It might be difficult to prove based on her text messages after that 2017 date and their on-again, off-again relationship lasting until 2020.

Either way, it sounds like Hammer is into some pretty kinky shit.

Reads more like she is the one with some major kinks and fetishes and he stopped wanting to do that shit with her. Sounds like a lot of texts are going to paint a different picture, and she is going to look like the guilty party.

This is a problen with this ongoing MeToo movement, every single person who feels they have beeb slighter, no matter who small a way, feels they are a victim and looking to ruin careers and get a pay day. The media is painting a clear picture of guilty before proven innocent. Is Hollywood full of douchebags? Of course. But the current picture shows every man in the industry as a rapist or racist. Fair amount of bullshit being thrown in with the real accusations getting air time and its turning what could have been a positive review of workplace practices into something where people will simply not want to work with others in fear of being a victim of false accusations.
Old 04-11-21, 12:27 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I think it's important to listen, but it is as important not to believe everything and if believeable not to blow it out of protortions.
The alligations against Dustin Hoffman were ridiculous, when the MeToo movement started. An assistant on Death of a Salesman didn't like the sexually charged humor Dustin Hoffman was using on set, not only in her presence. She asked him to stop, he stopped and 30 years later she paints him as an offender who ruined her life and John Oliver, who I admire a lot, attacks Hoffman on an panel celebrating the 20th anniversary of Wag the Dog.
Old 04-11-21, 12:33 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
Well yeah, if you go into business with a friend and they partake in shitty behavior that youíre aware of, enable and minimize to people who work for you both, then youíve got some responsibility. To be clear, though, itís not responsibility for your friendís shitty behavior, but for your own.
Originally Posted by Coral View Post
Way to misunderstand and over-simplify the issue.
If you read what Yi has to say about her experience on The Disaster Artist, she never accuses Rogen of minimizing her concerns, dismissing the allegations being made against Franco, or bribing her to stay in the movie.
Rather, she claims that as one of the producers, Rogen had to be aware of it, which is an assumption on her part.

Also, she provides no details or specific allegations about Franco's behavior during the production of The Disaster Artist. She describes it as "predatory" and "toxic," which are subjective adjectives.

Complaints about Franco and charges of sexual misconduct started being voiced in January of 2018. As far as I know, in the past three years, Rogen has never voiced support for Franco or worked with him.
Rogen and Franco became close friends in 1999, and whatever professional relationships they has in the 21st century, they were always first and foremost friends.

I don't have any idea what Seth Rogen knew or thought about Franco's behavior with females, and I don't think Yi has any idea of what Rogen knew or thought.
So, yes, I am "simplfying" this issue down to what I think is true: she's claiming Rogen is responsible for the behavior of his friend. Who are the "they" and the "them" that she repeatedly refers to in her statement? What did Seth Rogen ever say to her about this? What did James Franco ever say to her?

And I will also tread the dangerous ground of asking this question; why is she calling Rogen out three years later?

Old 04-11-21, 04:18 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
And I will also tread the dangerous ground of asking this question; why is she calling Rogen out three years later?
You don't think the climate is completely different now the just three years ago?
Old 04-11-21, 04:25 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post

And I will also tread the dangerous ground of asking this question; why is she calling Rogen out three years later?

This has been address multiple times in this topic.

Not specifically about her but all the woman who waited years until they felt they could come out with it.
Old 04-11-21, 04:40 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
You don't think the climate is completely different now the just three years ago?
Three years ago, Franco went from Oscar nomination lock to persona non grata almost overnight. I can appreciate that in 2016 when The Disaster Artist was in production, Yi would not have felt comfortable about going public with her truth, but early 2018 was the ideal time to speak up.
Three years ago would also have been a better time to speak up because Hollywood was still caught in that initial #MeToo wake, where any critical comment of the movement (Matt Damon) was slapped down hard.

I would hope that the climate is completely different, in that people would be more inclined to apply some critical thinking to charges when they are made, rather than jumping straight from accusation to execution.

But I am perfectly fine with focusing on the substance of her statements, not when they were made.
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Old 04-11-21, 04:43 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by whotony View Post
This has been address multiple times in this topic.

Not specifically about her but all the woman who waited years until they felt they could come out with it.
You'll have to address it again if you want me to understand why Yi would be reluctant to call out Rogen for enabling Franco, who she never claims did anything to her.
Old 04-11-21, 04:47 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

But nice to see that both of you chose to focus on the least important thing I posted. I guess means everything else I said was spot on.
Old 04-11-21, 09:11 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I saw Scott Rudin is being outed for being a super mean boss.

I mean, I guess it's good to talk about these problems in the workplace. But I have a friend who works at Dominos and has a similar problem with her boss. I suppose that's less newsworthy.

I've been nice to my employees (I have a small business) before and basically turn into their door mat. It is good for about two months, and deteriorates from there. I don't quite have my head wrapped around how to deal with people.

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