Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
04-07-21, 12:25 PM
#4101
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
I’m not siding with Whedon, and I do think Cyborg as a character was butchered in the theatrical cut of Justice League, but after all this time if this is what Fischer was alleging it seems like he blew things out of proportion.
I mean it essentially sounds like Whedon didn’t want to hear his input. I don’t know how that really classifies as abuse or whatever he was trying to play it off as. Whedon sounds arrogant and like an asshole for other things, but I’m not particularly sure why Fischer held this months long grudge unless there’s more he still has yet to say.
I mean it essentially sounds like Whedon didn’t want to hear his input. I don’t know how that really classifies as abuse or whatever he was trying to play it off as. Whedon sounds arrogant and like an asshole for other things, but I’m not particularly sure why Fischer held this months long grudge unless there’s more he still has yet to say.
04-07-21, 01:17 PM
#4102
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
I think if you look at it from Fisher’s perspective, his reaction is understandable.
- Talk that the film can’t center on an angry black man
- His character arc getting mostly cut from the film
- The booyah thing (which I don’t think is bad as a one-off suggestion) paired with Whedon being a dick
- The booyah thing on its own (seriously, it merits two mentions. When an exec takes you out to a fancy dinner to say a bunch of people might lose their jobs if you don’t say booyah, things have taken on a memorably impactful level of surrealism.)
- His complaints seeming to be blown off by the studio
- The studio claiming a black attorney would be investigating his claim and then finding out that no one ever spoke to that person and they were never a part of the investigation, which instead was run by all white people
If nothing else, it feels like the studio blew turds in how badly they handled this, and I can see how a victim in such a situation could feel it was racially motivated.
Note, I’m not necessarily saying any of the involved parties were intentionally being racist, just that they sucked at this and I think Fisher’s feelings are reasonable.
- Talk that the film can’t center on an angry black man
- His character arc getting mostly cut from the film
- The booyah thing (which I don’t think is bad as a one-off suggestion) paired with Whedon being a dick
- The booyah thing on its own (seriously, it merits two mentions. When an exec takes you out to a fancy dinner to say a bunch of people might lose their jobs if you don’t say booyah, things have taken on a memorably impactful level of surrealism.)
- His complaints seeming to be blown off by the studio
- The studio claiming a black attorney would be investigating his claim and then finding out that no one ever spoke to that person and they were never a part of the investigation, which instead was run by all white people
If nothing else, it feels like the studio blew turds in how badly they handled this, and I can see how a victim in such a situation could feel it was racially motivated.
Note, I’m not necessarily saying any of the involved parties were intentionally being racist, just that they sucked at this and I think Fisher’s feelings are reasonable.
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IBJoel (04-07-21)
04-07-21, 01:44 PM
#4103
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
I never got the sense that Fisher was accusing them of acting in a racist manner, just refusing to listen to his perspective. The fact that the typical responses were that "X, Y, and Z did not act out of racism" shows how little people were listening to Fisher in the first place. It seems like he was accusing them of being terrible managers and failing at leadership.
04-07-21, 01:46 PM
#4104
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
I never got the sense that Fisher was accusing them of acting in a racist manner, just refusing to listen to his perspective. The fact that the typical responses were that "X, Y, and Z did not act out of racism" shows how little people were listening to Fisher in the first place. It seems like he was accusing them of being terrible managers and failing at leadership.
Fisher says that "the assertion that a Black man would not have his own agency is just as racist as the conversations [Warners leadership] was having about the Justice League reshoots. I've been underestimated at every turn during this process and that is what has led us to this point. Had they taken me as seriously as they should have from the beginning, they would not have made as many foolish mistakes as they did in the process." Snyder denies any role in influencing Fisher.
04-07-21, 01:47 PM
#4105
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
The "Tortured Black Hero" in comics was a stereotype I was entirely sick of when I was a 12 year old POC.
DC was more guilty of this than Marvel, but both companies were culpable.
In regards to the Justice League movie: Zach Snyder did the character right, IMO. Maybe overpowered him by making him essentially a living Mother Box, but he went from angry to essential and accepting of his power in a way that seemed noble and organic. In Whedon's movie? Ehh. Just an angry guy who then just hung out and helped the team as needed.
DC was more guilty of this than Marvel, but both companies were culpable.
- Cyborg in New Teen Titans: was always bemoaning his lack of humanity, constantly feeling like an outcast (either by society or his own insecurities). He was the only one of the main Titans without a major romantic interest (the one woman he loved, who worked with disabled/prosthetic children, friendzone him early), and eventually they just did away with his humanity and turned into a total machine.
- Black Lightning in Batman and the Outsiders. He was the LEAST enthusiastic of the team, haunted by a memory of how using his powers accidentally killed a child, called some variation of a racial slur in almost every team adventure, and had the least amount of character growth throughout the series
- Green Lantern John Stewart - ostensibly the "least" haunted of the list, the Green Lantern writers thought it would be more interesting to take his wife (Katma Tui), an interesting and compelling character in her own right (and I suppose you could say "of color" since she was from Sinestro's planet and had reddish skin), and kill her. Then during Cosmic Odyssey, he was the ONLY HERO who massively screwed up and caused an entire planet and multiple ciivilizations to be destroyed. Katma Tui was resurrected again... and then killed again by Parallax. On and on and on..
. - Tyroc from the Legion of Super-Heroes. Never a fan-favorite, he was saddled with the "Angry Black Man trying to remove his people from society" trope and then just done away with completely (Paul Levitz hated the character). The LSH had almost no non-alien POCs, until the new Invisible Boy of 1983. And they made him a "safe" black man by making him French.
In regards to the Justice League movie: Zach Snyder did the character right, IMO. Maybe overpowered him by making him essentially a living Mother Box, but he went from angry to essential and accepting of his power in a way that seemed noble and organic. In Whedon's movie? Ehh. Just an angry guy who then just hung out and helped the team as needed.
04-07-21, 01:56 PM
#4106
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by fujishig
He definitely invoked racism:
This does sound like the typical HR experience in a large company, though, where you complain to them about misconduct and the primary response is to protect the company first.
This does sound like the typical HR experience in a large company, though, where you complain to them about misconduct and the primary response is to protect the company first.
I think it all stems from an old school style of management that doesn't fly anymore, and they were so worried about being accused of racism, that they did everything they could to silence the black guy who wanted to make sure that representation was done right.
04-07-21, 02:02 PM
#4107
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Yeah, John Stewart's entire character was basically the guilt around what happened in Cosmic Odyssey for a long long time until the animated series actually developed him. Tyroc is actually worse (all black people in the future live on an island) but I think that was the sign of the times, unfortunately. Cyborg, I get your criticism but he was probably one of the most developed black characters in comics at the time: the real crime was that wife beater costume.
I said it in the Snyder movie thread, but while I understand his complaints about Cyborg being cut from the movie, the movie tried to do too much. His backstory is fine in a four hour cut, but if the studio really demanded that it be cut to 2 hours, the Flash and Cyborg stuff would've been my choice to go too (though I would'nt have filmed extra scenes with a family being besieged, so maybe you take some of that back from that)
I said it in the Snyder movie thread, but while I understand his complaints about Cyborg being cut from the movie, the movie tried to do too much. His backstory is fine in a four hour cut, but if the studio really demanded that it be cut to 2 hours, the Flash and Cyborg stuff would've been my choice to go too (though I would'nt have filmed extra scenes with a family being besieged, so maybe you take some of that back from that)
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IBJoel (04-07-21)
04-07-21, 07:02 PM
#4108
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Geoff Johns definitely comes off as using “Some of my best friends are black” as a defense, requesting that he be referred to as “Lebanese-American” in the article, pointing out his ex wife was black and current wife is Asian, mentioning that he’s written many black characters.
When Diary of a Mad Black Woman came out, Roger Ebert wrote a negative review, and some readers wrote in saying the review/he was racist. He wrote a well-reasoned follow-up, expanding on his issues with the film and the ways Tyler Perry had failed as a filmmaker.
He didn’t mention that his wife is black or try to use that as evidence of his lack of racism.
When Diary of a Mad Black Woman came out, Roger Ebert wrote a negative review, and some readers wrote in saying the review/he was racist. He wrote a well-reasoned follow-up, expanding on his issues with the film and the ways Tyler Perry had failed as a filmmaker.
He didn’t mention that his wife is black or try to use that as evidence of his lack of racism.
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Why So Blu? (04-07-21)
04-08-21, 01:49 AM
#4109
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
I haven’t read the story yet but if that was the filmmakers intentions, they failed...in both cuts.
Whedon's cut gave all of the others a lighter tone, some funny lines and while that doesn't fit to the films narrative, they all weren't so dark anymore. Cyborg's part wasn't only cut short, Whedon added nothing, only booyah. So Whedon definitely failed, although there was a discussion about it.
04-10-21, 06:35 PM
#4110
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Wow I thought Charlyne Yi was part of their clique or Rogen has not cast her in any of his latest projects so now she came out or finally spoke of these allegations?
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...012455085.html
Charlyne Yi, the actress who appeared alongside Seth Rogen in Knocked Up, is calling him out for "enabling" his friend and frequent co-star James Franco.
Since 2018, multiple women have accused Franco of having acted inappropriately with them. Five of them told the Los Angeles Times in January of that year that Franco had been what the newspaper termed "sexually exploitative" with them, while they were students at his acting school. Two recalled him becoming angry when women wouldn't go topless, and a third said that, during a nude orgy scene, he "removed protective plastic guards covering other actress' vaginas while simulating oral sex on them." Two of the women filed lawsuits against the actor. Franco called the allegations "false and inflammatory," and the claims were settled in February.
Yi, who also appeared in The Disaster Artist, said Thursday that she had tried to break her contract and leave that film because she "didn't feel safe working with a f****** sexual predator." She said that people attempted to "bribe me with a bigger acting role."
Charlyne Yi, the actress who appeared alongside Seth Rogen in Knocked Up, is calling him out for "enabling" his friend and frequent co-star James Franco.
Since 2018, multiple women have accused Franco of having acted inappropriately with them. Five of them told the Los Angeles Times in January of that year that Franco had been what the newspaper termed "sexually exploitative" with them, while they were students at his acting school. Two recalled him becoming angry when women wouldn't go topless, and a third said that, during a nude orgy scene, he "removed protective plastic guards covering other actress' vaginas while simulating oral sex on them." Two of the women filed lawsuits against the actor. Franco called the allegations "false and inflammatory," and the claims were settled in February.
Rogen and Franco have been famously close friends since they co-starred in the TV show Freaks and Geeks, which debuted in 1999. They went on to make many movies together, including Pineapple Express in 2008 and, in 2017, the film The Disaster Artist.
She blamed people for minimizing Franco's actions.
"Enablers," she said, "are just as toxic and are abusers too."
Neither Franco nor Rogen, who were both producers on that film, responded to Yahoo Entertainment's request for comment.
Yi noted in the caption that April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month, but "it really should be something men educate themselves about their whole life and learn how to be there & protect women, nonbinary, trans, etc—who are targeted."
She also said Wednesday that one of Rogen's other friends, who organizes events raising awareness about domestic abuse, asked her to share her "abuse story," because men have to hold men accountable for their actions. Yi said he ghosted her after she asked him why he wasn't holding Rogen accountable.
Since 2018, multiple women have accused Franco of having acted inappropriately with them. Five of them told the Los Angeles Times in January of that year that Franco had been what the newspaper termed "sexually exploitative" with them, while they were students at his acting school. Two recalled him becoming angry when women wouldn't go topless, and a third said that, during a nude orgy scene, he "removed protective plastic guards covering other actress' vaginas while simulating oral sex on them." Two of the women filed lawsuits against the actor. Franco called the allegations "false and inflammatory," and the claims were settled in February.
Yi, who also appeared in The Disaster Artist, said Thursday that she had tried to break her contract and leave that film because she "didn't feel safe working with a f****** sexual predator." She said that people attempted to "bribe me with a bigger acting role."
Charlyne Yi, the actress who appeared alongside Seth Rogen in Knocked Up, is calling him out for "enabling" his friend and frequent co-star James Franco.
Since 2018, multiple women have accused Franco of having acted inappropriately with them. Five of them told the Los Angeles Times in January of that year that Franco had been what the newspaper termed "sexually exploitative" with them, while they were students at his acting school. Two recalled him becoming angry when women wouldn't go topless, and a third said that, during a nude orgy scene, he "removed protective plastic guards covering other actress' vaginas while simulating oral sex on them." Two of the women filed lawsuits against the actor. Franco called the allegations "false and inflammatory," and the claims were settled in February.
Rogen and Franco have been famously close friends since they co-starred in the TV show Freaks and Geeks, which debuted in 1999. They went on to make many movies together, including Pineapple Express in 2008 and, in 2017, the film The Disaster Artist.
She blamed people for minimizing Franco's actions.
"Enablers," she said, "are just as toxic and are abusers too."
Neither Franco nor Rogen, who were both producers on that film, responded to Yahoo Entertainment's request for comment.
Yi noted in the caption that April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month, but "it really should be something men educate themselves about their whole life and learn how to be there & protect women, nonbinary, trans, etc—who are targeted."
She also said Wednesday that one of Rogen's other friends, who organizes events raising awareness about domestic abuse, asked her to share her "abuse story," because men have to hold men accountable for their actions. Yi said he ghosted her after she asked him why he wasn't holding Rogen accountable.
04-10-21, 07:09 PM
#4111
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
The James Franco stuff has been in various blind items for years now. Surprised it's finally gaining some visibility.
04-10-21, 07:46 PM
#4112
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by candyrocket786
The James Franco stuff has been in various blind items for years now. Surprised it's finally gaining some visibility.
04-11-21, 12:04 AM
#4113
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
I figured Franco's career was going to take a hit but I didn't expect Rogan to get shrapnel from this.
04-11-21, 09:04 AM
#4114
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by Ringmaster
I figured Franco's career was going to take a hit but I didn't expect Rogan to get shrapnel from this.
04-11-21, 09:45 AM
#4115
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by Count Dooku
Didn't you know that you are responsible for the behavior of your friends?
04-11-21, 10:41 AM
#4116
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by Count Dooku
Didn't you know that you are responsible for the behavior of your friends?
04-11-21, 11:56 AM
#4117
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Sounds like some pretty damning allegations against Hammer if true.
It might be difficult to prove based on her text messages after that 2017 date and their on-again, off-again relationship lasting until 2020.
Either way, it sounds like Hammer is into some pretty kinky shit.
It might be difficult to prove based on her text messages after that 2017 date and their on-again, off-again relationship lasting until 2020.
Either way, it sounds like Hammer is into some pretty kinky shit.
Reads more like she is the one with some major kinks and fetishes and he stopped wanting to do that shit with her. Sounds like a lot of texts are going to paint a different picture, and she is going to look like the guilty party.
This is a problen with this ongoing MeToo movement, every single person who feels they have beeb slighter, no matter who small a way, feels they are a victim and looking to ruin careers and get a pay day. The media is painting a clear picture of guilty before proven innocent. Is Hollywood full of douchebags? Of course. But the current picture shows every man in the industry as a rapist or racist. Fair amount of bullshit being thrown in with the real accusations getting air time and its turning what could have been a positive review of workplace practices into something where people will simply not want to work with others in fear of being a victim of false accusations.
04-11-21, 12:27 PM
#4118
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
I think it's important to listen, but it is as important not to believe everything and if believeable not to blow it out of protortions.
The alligations against Dustin Hoffman were ridiculous, when the MeToo movement started. An assistant on Death of a Salesman didn't like the sexually charged humor Dustin Hoffman was using on set, not only in her presence. She asked him to stop, he stopped and 30 years later she paints him as an offender who ruined her life and John Oliver, who I admire a lot, attacks Hoffman on an panel celebrating the 20th anniversary of Wag the Dog.
The alligations against Dustin Hoffman were ridiculous, when the MeToo movement started. An assistant on Death of a Salesman didn't like the sexually charged humor Dustin Hoffman was using on set, not only in her presence. She asked him to stop, he stopped and 30 years later she paints him as an offender who ruined her life and John Oliver, who I admire a lot, attacks Hoffman on an panel celebrating the 20th anniversary of Wag the Dog.
04-11-21, 12:33 PM
#4119
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by maxfisher
Well yeah, if you go into business with a friend and they partake in shitty behavior that you’re aware of, enable and minimize to people who work for you both, then you’ve got some responsibility. To be clear, though, it’s not responsibility for your friend’s shitty behavior, but for your own.
Originally Posted by Coral
Way to misunderstand and over-simplify the issue.
Rather, she claims that as one of the producers, Rogen had to be aware of it, which is an assumption on her part.
Also, she provides no details or specific allegations about Franco's behavior during the production of The Disaster Artist. She describes it as "predatory" and "toxic," which are subjective adjectives.
Complaints about Franco and charges of sexual misconduct started being voiced in January of 2018. As far as I know, in the past three years, Rogen has never voiced support for Franco or worked with him.
Rogen and Franco became close friends in 1999, and whatever professional relationships they has in the 21st century, they were always first and foremost friends.
I don't have any idea what Seth Rogen knew or thought about Franco's behavior with females, and I don't think Yi has any idea of what Rogen knew or thought.
So, yes, I am "simplfying" this issue down to what I think is true: she's claiming Rogen is responsible for the behavior of his friend. Who are the "they" and the "them" that she repeatedly refers to in her statement? What did Seth Rogen ever say to her about this? What did James Franco ever say to her?
And I will also tread the dangerous ground of asking this question; why is she calling Rogen out three years later?
04-11-21, 04:18 PM
#4120
DVD Talk God
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by Count Dooku
And I will also tread the dangerous ground of asking this question; why is she calling Rogen out three years later?
04-11-21, 04:25 PM
#4121
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by Count Dooku
And I will also tread the dangerous ground of asking this question; why is she calling Rogen out three years later?
This has been address multiple times in this topic.
Not specifically about her but all the woman who waited years until they felt they could come out with it.
04-11-21, 04:40 PM
#4122
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by Deftones
You don't think the climate is completely different now the just three years ago?
Three years ago would also have been a better time to speak up because Hollywood was still caught in that initial #MeToo wake, where any critical comment of the movement (Matt Damon) was slapped down hard.
I would hope that the climate is completely different, in that people would be more inclined to apply some critical thinking to charges when they are made, rather than jumping straight from accusation to execution.
But I am perfectly fine with focusing on the substance of her statements, not when they were made.
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John Pannozzi (04-11-21)
04-11-21, 04:43 PM
#4123
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
Originally Posted by whotony
This has been address multiple times in this topic.
Not specifically about her but all the woman who waited years until they felt they could come out with it.
Not specifically about her but all the woman who waited years until they felt they could come out with it.
04-11-21, 04:47 PM
#4124
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
But nice to see that both of you chose to focus on the least important thing I posted. 
I guess means everything else I said was spot on.
I guess means everything else I said was spot on.
04-11-21, 09:11 PM
#4125
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion
I saw Scott Rudin is being outed for being a super mean boss.
I mean, I guess it's good to talk about these problems in the workplace. But I have a friend who works at Dominos and has a similar problem with her boss. I suppose that's less newsworthy.
I've been nice to my employees (I have a small business) before and basically turn into their door mat. It is good for about two months, and deteriorates from there. I don't quite have my head wrapped around how to deal with people.
I mean, I guess it's good to talk about these problems in the workplace. But I have a friend who works at Dominos and has a similar problem with her boss. I suppose that's less newsworthy.
I've been nice to my employees (I have a small business) before and basically turn into their door mat. It is good for about two months, and deteriorates from there. I don't quite have my head wrapped around how to deal with people.
