brayzie

That's what I'm confused about.

The theatrical cut isn't what was first filmed. The original had no narration, and the elevator ending. This is what was shown to test audiences before the studio made them go back, change the ending, and add narration.

But I was surprised to find out that the unicorn dream wasn't in the work print version.
So was it filmed for the 1992 Director's Cut?
According to wikipedia it was filmed when they first made the movie, but the scene was discarded from even the work print version because it was thought to be too "artsy."
And supposedly the full scene was Deckard running through the forest, along with the unicorn. But when they tried to put the scene back in for the '92 DC the footage was too damaged, and only the unicorn part was good to use.

melasnus

Why does this matter?
Please explain...

IMO, that's just too silly.
To get THAT out of this movie is akin to pulling a rabbit out of a hat...or ass.

Now that IS very interesting.

brayzie

Rival11 said that there's a specific reason why the xenomorphs look the way they do, and that if we google "Prometheus/Covenant explained" we'll find out.

I watched a YouTube video about it, and read through the Reddit explanations, and still don't know what Rival11 was talking about.

There's kind of an inkling of that in the beginning of Prometheus.
The Engineer drinks the black goo and evaporates, and and it's implied that his molecules or atoms end up mixing with the environment to create humans.
The rest sounds like a big reach.
The way it played out in the film, there seemed to be no real rules to what the black goo could do. It makes Holloway sick, gets Shaw pregnant with an octopus, but turns Fifield into a zombie. And by the end of the film it produces a proto-xenomorph.

The crew of the Prometheus act like scientists from a Z-grade level film when they find an engineer's decapitated head and try to reanimate it with electricity.
With no anti-contamination suits, no protective enclosure, nothing.

Mabuse

I’ve never heard any account of Deckert running with the unicorn. But they did film footage of the unicorn. And you are correct that they never used it in ‘82. And when they went to make the so called director’s cut in ‘92 they found very little of the originally shot unicorn footage.

The ‘92 director’s cut was very quickly assembled with Scott not able to participate because he was making 1492. When they really made a proper effort in ‘07 they dug around further and found better stuff.

Abob Teff

I'm sorry if I come off that way ... while I don't intend to, there is some truth to what you say. I really do enjoy discussing the mess the Alien franchise has become and particularly these movies. No, I don't enjoy the newer Scott movies, so the better story to me is what it should have been and what went wrong. It's the same thing that has kept me watching Walking Dead all these years.

I'll tell you I've watched both Prometheus and Covenant multiple times and will watch them again because of that desire in me to understand what went wrong. I did this with Alien 3 and did gain an understanding of what happened and I suppose I am at peace with it now. Still disappointed, but accepting.

Prometheus and Covenant are NOT well made movies -- even if you remove every aspect of expectation for an Alien film they are not well crafted movies. Brayzie listed out a bunch of points that I agree with. The story telling is sloppy at best and deliberately insulting to fans of the franchise at worst. It is maddening to listen to Ridley Scott prattle on like he really has some passion or plan (spoiler: he doesn't, other than he doesn't want to let other filmmakers upstage him).

As far as just Googling videos ... yeah, I did a lot of that. Most of it is self-aggrandizing hacks who want to be You-Tube stars (like the posted video) trying to apologize for Scott's "fuck you" to the franchise fans. It is one thing for videos like that to dissect a movie or TV show and provide deeper context or new thoughts on the property. However it is a complete failure of the original property (movie or TV show) when the creators use those external resources to cover up or fix the mess they made in the first place. (Again, Walking Dead is a fantastic example where the show runners were making such a mess of things, they had to go on the after show to explain what the hell they were doing.)

My direct inquiry was about all "the new" stuff coming out that you mentioned. I haven't seen anything new in ages, so that is what I was asking about.

EDITED TO ADD: Please don't take this question the wrong way Rival (or other who like these two films): Are you a religious/spiritual person? I am not. I enjoy studying religion and the ensuing discussions (that same nature that makes me enjoy talking about movies like this). I don't mind religious themes in my entertainment, but I am not seeking a deeper, spiritual meaning in these films. Maybe that is the difference in how I see these movies.

dex14

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/a...tt-1203223989/

Not really more of an update from two years, considering at that time he said he would be "filming within 14 months." At least it seems Disney is still interested in having them made.

inri222

lopper

Hokeyboy

I liked Covenant significantly more than Prometheus, but neither were great movies. Prometheus was way too Lindelof: set up a bunch of interesting questions, answer none of them, and just go with a big SPLOSIONS ending.

I'll still see Awakening though, maybe they can stick the landing. But at this point will audiences even care?

E Unit

Previous sequels were GREAT looking, but that's about it. Not sure how another one will help this franchise any.

Decker

I liked Covenant enough, though I barely remember it now. Can't even recall if some version of "David" made it to the end of the movie.

Would be interesting to see one more flick in the series, I guess. Hopefully with a less-dumb, more memorable crew.

melasnus

Audiences will always pay for another nightmare; there is no movie monster scarier...

IMO, we need one more film to tie Covenant to the Space Jockey in Alien.

Decker

Of course, we thought we would get that in Prometheus.

Daytripper

"Covenant" was garbage. Ridley Scott didn't finish what he started with "Prometheus" and basically gave us a retread of "Alien". I wanted to see more of Elizabeth Shaw but Scott had to kill her off before the movie even began. It was a lazy follow-up with a terrible cast. At this point, I would prefer Scott to have nothing to do with any further prequels or sequels. And thankful he only produced "Blade Runner 2049".

Toddarino

inri222

He went from not wanting to show aliens or using the Alien name in the title to doing a complete 180. Gee I wonder why?

As much as I disliked Prometheus, this would have been a better path than where he went with Covenant.

I agree about it being lazy (aka cash grab) and except for Fassbender the cast was terrible.

I'd prefer if they just stopped already. The first two films are so good that everything after doesn't come close and just ruins the mystique. Just like Godfather III, I also like the third film, but it has its flaws and doesn't come close to the first two.

​​​​​​​I really liked BR2049, Thankfully Denis Villeneuve was not taking his shit and even had him removed once from the set because Scott was looking over his shoulder while he was directing.

Dan

I enjoyed and was thoroughly entertained by Prometheus and Alien: Covenant well enough. I think they added some interesting stuff to the overall story/lore/whatever and although both flicks had their problems - which cannot be ignored - I don't think either one is so bad that they ruin the original trilogy for me in any measurable way. So I'm down for another one.

lopper

FANS: Prometheus sucked! We want the Alien!

SCOTT: Ok, chaps, you got it. Pip pip!

*makes Alien Covenant*

FANS: WTF? It's just an Alien retread! We want something different!

I thought Covenant was a really good gore filled monster movie, that did it's best to give fans what they wanted but still utilize the groundwork laid in Prometheus. It's unfair and more than a little unrealistic to expect him to capture lightning in a bottle again, 40 years later, and make something as good or groundbreaking as Alien. But whoever said fandom is anything but unrealistic and unfair...

Mike86

Toddarino

Decker

I just hated how incredibly stupid everyone was in Covenant. I mean, the xenomorph would certainly kill even the smartest of scientists, right? So why have Billy Crudup shove his face in an opening egg? Wouldn't it be more interesting if everyone followed scientific protocol and they still got killed? My favorite part of Covenant was featured in the trailer where the girl is trapped with the baby alien in the isolation area and begs to be let out, but the person on the other side of the door sadly refuses -- correctly. A whole movie like that would be very interesting. You immediately tune out when dumb characters do dumb things. Part of the reason the first movie works so well is because they aren't dumb people (though clearly they're not scientists), and they rarely do stupid things. I know it requires better screenwriters to write smart than to write dumb, but I still believe it would have been doable.

TGM

just give us hordes of Aliens vs battalions of Colonial Marines fighting in a city on Earth already for fuck sake. it's really the only xenomorph related scenario I would give a shit about at this point.

lopper

FANS: This is just a retread of Aliens! C'mon!

brayzie

I remember reading a YouTube commenter defended it by sarcastically saying, "Yeah, a bio-mechanical species created by an a bio-mechanical android totally doesn't make sense."
I think the fast-tracking of evolution in both films came off badly. Some black goo just magically evolves everything into random monsters. And again, the advanced monsters just looked boring.
Now that I think about it, why didn't they at least make the space cobras and the octopus to have a Giger-esque, bio-mechanical look to them?

Yes! Even if you aren't familiar with SF literature, and were only familiar with the first Alien film, you'd be aware that even these space truckers had very specific protocol and procedures that they had to follow. That was the reason for most of the arguments between the characters.
And why did they go with Spaihts and Lindeloff in the first place? I would think anyone familiar with the SF genre would have come up with a better story. The one we got was far too Eurocentric and geocentric, themes which were already cliche in 2012.
The "gods" or creators of mankind, who share the same DNA or genetic structure as modern humans, just happen to be white and muscular, with idealized European features like Roman-Greco statues or Michelangelo's David?
Human's are so important that we look just like our creators?
Earth is so important that the engineer is going to reawaken after who knows how long just to annihilate it?
That's why Prometheus seemed so backwards. With Alien: Resurrection the franchise became a line of generic b-movie sequels like Chucky and Nightmare on Elm Street.

inri222

We're talking about the same man who cast this guy to play an Egyptian Pharaoh.