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Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

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Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Old 06-14-17, 08:25 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by fumanstan
I still like Batman Forever. Batman and Robin stinks.
Watch your heckin' language.
Old 06-15-17, 07:25 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

He apologizes for Batman and Robin, but not for St. Elmo's Fire??
Old 06-15-17, 08:04 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Batman Forever is a lot of fun. Such a distinctly 90's movie from the visuals to peak Carrey chewing up scenery to the Seal song. I do wish Billy Dee Williams would've gotten the chance to play Two-Face in it though.
Old 06-15-17, 08:38 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by EddieMoney
He apologizes for Batman and Robin, but not for St. Elmo's Fire??
Old 06-15-17, 11:11 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Two-Face in Batman Forever was a freakin' stand-in for the Joker. I hated that. He was a clown. Nicole Kidman was fine as fuck in that one, though.
Old 06-15-17, 11:14 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
Watch your heckin' language.
I'm keeping it PG

And yeah, Two-Face was the only thing that was underwhelming in Batman Forever. I like Carrey as Riddler even if he was a little too over the top, and the Robin storyline was fairly well done.
Old 06-15-17, 11:21 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Nicole Kidman was fine as fuck in that one, though.




Doing a Google Image search, they sure did a lot of promotional pics.
Old 06-15-17, 11:35 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Nicole Kidman was fine as fuck in that one, though.
You should see Billy Bathgate.
Old 06-15-17, 01:35 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

I like elements of Batman Forever. I used to think I liked it more until I watched it again recently though. Kilmer as Bruce and Batman is really not great. He doesn't fit either role very well to me. His Bruce I don't really buy as he just doesn't come off like the millionaire playboy type and his Batman while slightly better just seems to be missing something. Like he doesn't have the dramatic weight behind the performance to really make me think that's Batman. Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face is pretty bad too. I don't mind the look they went with for the character but the way Jones played it just doesn't really work.

I like O'Donnell as Dick/Robin mostly. The Robin suit was really pretty well designed aside from the stupid nipples. Overall I feel like the Dick/Robin character was essentially what the movie called for. Some parts were dumb though like Dick living with Bruce seemed like a stretch since he looks old enough to be on his own. The orphaned character didn't work being that old I don't think. Carrey while definitely over the top is decent as The Riddler too. It seemed like he took a lot of inspiration from Frank Gorshin which is cool. At the same time though it also felt like a bit too much of all the big nineties Jim Carrey characters rolled into one though. I don't think Schumacher went as overboard with it as he did with Batman & Robin. The sets aren't the greatest but are alright mostly and I like all the Bat vehicles (the Batmobile in particular I always found pretty cool honestly). The story is serviceable and I think is better than most of the others from the Burton/Schumacher films because Bruce/Batman is at least a lot of the focus of it whereas the other films he kind of takes a backseat in what are supposed to be movies about him. Also I like the score for both Schumacher films. Not as cool as the Elfman score for the Burton films but I think the Batman theme is pretty memorable. Overall I'd say it's not a bad movie but definitely not great either.

Last edited by Mike86; 06-15-17 at 01:56 PM.
Old 06-15-17, 02:11 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

I always liked Batman Forever. In fact, I like it more than either of Burton's Batmans movies. It had just enough cheese on top that I felt more comfortable with its Batman.

Batman & Robin unfortunately dialed everything up to 11. The prior Batman movies were at least made with teens and young adults in mind. Batman & Robin felt designed by a toy committee and was aimed at 8-year-olds.
Old 06-15-17, 02:48 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
He shouldn't be apologizing. He should be wanting comic nerds apologizing to him. Had Batman & Robin not happened we probably wouldn't have gotten Batman Begins.
I think he said exactly that on one of the special features of the Batman boxset. "I know i messed up but hey if my movie wasnt such a joke, we wouldn't have the next series of better films"
Old 06-15-17, 03:37 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Abob Teff
Sorry, I should have specified ... how was it critically received? Financially successful is the goal, but it doesn't correlate with critical success. I honestly don't remember much other than flak over Tommy Lee Jones.
Batman Forever was really well received critically after the universal hatred for Batman Returns. Lots of people enjoyed the movie and praised Carey and Kilmer to the point that Kilmer not returning in the sequel was considered a blow.

I still like Batman Forever and would say it's probably my second favorite of the original four. It does a lot of good things even though it does have a very 90's feel to it. Wish that we could see the directors cut that has been said is a better movie.
Old 06-15-17, 04:08 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
I always liked Batman Forever. In fact, I like it more than either of Burton's Batmans movies. It had just enough cheese on top that I felt more comfortable with its Batman.

Batman & Robin unfortunately dialed everything up to 11. The prior Batman movies were at least made with teens and young adults in mind. Batman & Robin felt designed by a toy committee and was aimed at 8-year-olds.
I think of the original four films the original Burton film is the best. They really got progressively worse after in my opinion. Why Batman Returns gets a free pass from so many people is beyond me as it's as bad as Batman & Robin for basically the exact opposite reason (too dark and grotesque while still managing to have some pretty bad camp value).
Old 06-15-17, 04:42 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Mike86
I think of the original four films the original Burton film is the best. They really got progressively worse after in my opinion. Why Batman Returns gets a free pass from so many people is beyond me as it's as bad as Batman & Robin for basically the exact opposite reason (too dark and grotesque while still managing to have some pretty bad camp value).
Yeah, the camp quotient started with Batman Returns. As a kid I really didn't like that movie. I don't the love for it either, except for the Pfeiffer-as Catwoman-casting. But it did do well box office-wise, and apparently it got good reviews, while being criticized for being too dark. Maybe it was gross, but I never considered it dark. It was like Disney goth to me.

I thought Batman Forever was pretty bad. Everything was neon, the city felt more like a Metropolis, the city's street gangs were more like circus/interpretive dance performers...
Jim Carrey is really annoying, and yeah, Two-Face is just like the Joker.

Maybe this explains the more extreme direction the franchise went in:

Burton, who was more interested in directing Ed Wood, later reflected he was taken aback by some of the focus group meetings for Batman Forever, a title which he hated. Producer Peter MacGregor-Scott represented the studio's aim in making a film for the MTV Generation with full merchandising appeal.
Old 06-15-17, 04:54 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Mike86
I think of the original four films the original Burton film is the best. They really got progressively worse after in my opinion. Why Batman Returns gets a free pass from so many people is beyond me as it's as bad as Batman & Robin for basically the exact opposite reason (too dark and grotesque while still managing to have some pretty bad camp value).
I disdained Batman Returns in 1992 as I almost walked out of the movie theater it was so bad. I watched it again when it came on HBO in the summer of 93 and couldn't finish it because it was so bad.

Strange enough, I revisited the film about a year ago out of curiosity and really liked it. I can't explain my 180 but in some ways I like it better then Batman 89 now.
Old 06-15-17, 05:03 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

It's the opposite for me. As a kid I liked Batman Returns more but watching it now ugh. I think a lot of it is that you can really see the Burton influence and I've pretty much grown out of his film style other than a couple films. I think the first film has his influence but it's more restrained so it's tolerable. In the sequel it's just too much. Keaton and Pfeiffer are great but otherwise I really don't like it.
Old 06-15-17, 05:19 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Two-Face in Batman Forever was a freakin' stand-in for the Joker. I hated that. He was a clown. Nicole Kidman was fine as fuck in that one, though.
Indeed. One of the best aspects of that film by far.
Old 06-15-17, 05:32 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Mike86
I like elements of Batman Forever. I used to think I liked it more until I watched it again recently though. Kilmer as Bruce and Batman is really not great. He doesn't fit either role very well to me. His Bruce I don't really buy as he just doesn't come off like the millionaire playboy type and his Batman while slightly better just seems to be missing something. Like he doesn't have the dramatic weight behind the performance to really make me think that's Batman. Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face is pretty bad too. I don't mind the look they went with for the character but the way Jones played it just doesn't really work.

I like O'Donnell as Dick/Robin mostly. The Robin suit was really pretty well designed aside from the stupid nipples. Overall I feel like the Dick/Robin character was essentially what the movie called for. Some parts were dumb though like Dick living with Bruce seemed like a stretch since he looks old enough to be on his own. The orphaned character didn't work being that old I don't think. Carrey while definitely over the top is decent as The Riddler too. It seemed like he took a lot of inspiration from Frank Gorshin which is cool. At the same time though it also felt like a bit too much of all the big nineties Jim Carrey characters rolled into one though. I don't think Schumacher went as overboard with it as he did with Batman & Robin. The sets aren't the greatest but are alright mostly and I like all the Bat vehicles (the Batmobile in particular I always found pretty cool honestly). The story is serviceable and I think is better than most of the others from the Burton/Schumacher films because Bruce/Batman is at least a lot of the focus of it whereas the other films he kind of takes a backseat in what are supposed to be movies about him. Also I like the score for both Schumacher films. Not as cool as the Elfman score for the Burton films but I think the Batman theme is pretty memorable. Overall I'd say it's not a bad movie but definitely not great either.
Yeah, I don't think Batman Forever has aged well at all, especially after the Dark Knight films. Burton's movies hold up much better and don't feel as much like products of their time.
Old 06-15-17, 08:47 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by EddieMoney
He apologizes for Batman and Robin, but not for St. Elmo's Fire??
No shit! I'd like to throw in "Flatliners" and "Dying Young". Anyway, never mind Schumacher, where is Zack Snyder's apology for everything post "Watchmen"?
Old 06-15-17, 09:53 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

And Watchmen. Need a long apology for that one.
Old 06-15-17, 10:49 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by E Unit
And Watchmen. Need a long apology for that one.
The keyword here is long. Had that film been trimmed by 30 minutes or more, it would have been so much better and tighter. As is, I don't think it's terrible. Just bloated.
Old 06-15-17, 11:08 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Same thoughts as well.
Old 06-15-17, 11:29 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by mcnabb
I disdained Batman Returns in 1992 as I almost walked out of the movie theater it was so bad. I watched it again when it came on HBO in the summer of 93 and couldn't finish it because it was so bad.

Strange enough, I revisited the film about a year ago out of curiosity and really liked it. I can't explain my 180 but in some ways I like it better then Batman 89 now.
I can explain it ... puberty.

Old 06-16-17, 08:58 AM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Some of you guys are crazy, Batman Returns is the best movie from that tetralogy by a long shot.
The argument can be made that its not the best Batman movie(that would be Mask of the Phantasm) but as a film by itself its great. Just like Nolan made a heist film with Batman in it alas "Heat" Burton made a Noir monster fantasy film with Batman in it. In both instances the Directors went all in with their vision and it feels like cohesive world where these characters exist without feeling contrived
Old 06-16-17, 12:01 PM
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Re: Joel Schumacher apologizes for 'Batman & Robin'

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Nicole Kidman was fine as fuck in that one, though.
These two weren't shabby either

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